ta12121
Member
From: Canada
Registered: 2009-06-02
Posts: 3190
Hey guys I'm back with another progress report. For this one I feel I should get right to what I can do and cannot do, my experience with N1 this year and my goals for next year and beyond.
What I can do now: (Also includes other points)
-Read Japanese fluently (most texts I come across are easy, novels give me trouble but it's a vocabulary thing, not an understanding gap
-I have the ability to understand J-J well, without the need of translations (this took a while to gain but it really helps develop your skills)
-My listening skills are perfectly fine. That doesn't mean I can understand everything (technically no one can in any language) but for the majority, I can understand and read well.
-I have the ability to write kanji,kana well now (been practicing). It's really useful to maintain, as it helps you maintain readings and help you really internalize JPN into your mind.
-Can I call myself fluent? I wouldn't say that just yet but once I get my grammar in order and speaking in order (I'm improving but still need to keep putting in more time for that)
-I’ve used anki to help me increase my listening skills, reading skills and help me better equip myself to understand Japanese text to an advanced level.
-Vocabulary deck is roughly at 14,000 now
-Sentence/Production deck is roughly at 3100+
-MCD Deck is at 25 at the moment (new deck that includes grammar, vocabulary, writing practice and reading practice.
-Overall I feel that my definition of fluency keeps changing over time but I will eventually get to my goals if I just keep going.
-Not to add much cards per day (at the moment it’s only 15 cards per day but it will eventually go back to 25 a day once my vocabulary reps go down to around 200 or less)
-Vocabulary deck states I know close to 2600+ kanji (doesn’t mean much; remember it’s just a number). The way I see it now is simple: can you write all that? Can you use that in a sentence, can you speak about that and be able to understand and communicate with a natural response.
What I can't do now:
Speak well and write well (now doesn't mean I can't speak or write but it's not to the level I want it to be).
-I've broken it down to better understanding grammar and usages (via particles and context)
-Improve typing effectively in Japanese (not really needed but it will be helpful for translation work in the future)
-Make sure you better equip yourself with keigo and culture aspects of the Japanese language.
-I sometimes screw up basic readings but understand why it happens
-Need to give more detail to make sure everything is short, simple and is natural
-Make sure to master typing (like I said above) but could incorporate that into my new SRS deck
-Make sure to include speaking practice at least 30-1hour a day (this right here helps a lot)
-I could include more but I feel that the way to succeed is to first master the essential things you will need to be successful in Japanese. This means don’t worry that you don’t know every kanji or screw up in speaking but to master
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Current SRS decks:
Vocabulary deck: I stopped adding cards to this because I currently have a lot of reps for this. It used to be close to 600, now it’s at around 430 and less(I delete cards that I think are not useful). My goal is to get this down to 200 or less in a month.
Sentence and Production Deck:
This has kana in it (meaning it shows the romaji and I write the kana for it). You might ask why I am still doing this but trust me, maintaining is the key. It doesn’t take long so it’s all good
-It has RTK kanji-style cards (J-J monolingual keywords). I delete kanji that aren’t useful and make sure to add what is only useful. Currently at 550+ kanji and once I’ve added all the cards, I will try something else with this deck.
-MCD deck: is that new AJATT style cards. For this one I decided it will include pretty much anything experimental I want to try with SRS cards. I’m playing with written J-J kanji production cards. So I test myself 1 one kanji for a pargraph(that I have difficulty with and make sure I can write it from context, write the reading and understand the meaning). I sometimes add multiple facts for the same card, so I can easily add 5 per day that I am doing.
N1 experience:
The test itself wasn’t hard but what I’ve learned from it is pretty simple. Actually study for the test. Prepare by doing question formats that will actually be on the test and actually study for it. I delayed my studying for this test (despite buying a lot of prep books for which I never did much of). I honestly think I didn’t get it because I screwed up on the listening and grammar sections of the test but I’m not worried as I can just take it next year and make sure to prepare for it now.
Lastly, I’m looking for anything else you guys can add to this. I’m always open to advice on how to improve and what should I aim for. Thanks for reading this long post (I don’t do this often)
amtrack
Member
Registered: 2012-12-23
Posts: 74
First I believe congrats are in order, so congratulations! Secondly, have you ever taken an audio course? Its a good way to practice your speaking if it has the whole question/response thing (pimsleur does). If not, I'd definitely do that, as it really helps your speaking ability by developing that thought->Japanese link in your brain. Other than that, there's not much else. Maybe get a language partner or something.
edit: As for writing, participate in Japanese forums/blogs/read a looooot. The way I learned to write so well in English (about done with my Bachelor's degree) is that I read a lot. A lot a lot. And then of course I had to write. Read a bunch and keep a 'reading journal', where you talk about what you read. If that's too laborious, just do the forum thing lol. Idk how easy/hard it is for you to recall the kanji.
Last edited by amtrack (2012 December 27, 7:31 pm)
dtcamero
Member
From: new york
Registered: 2010-05-15
Posts: 653
I've been about 6 months behind you, following the updates. My reading and writing probably aren't as good as yours, but I took a slightly different path. Last summer I spent 3 months in Japan and it allowed me to turn that difficult corner of beginning speech. Its painfully awkward because you suck so bad and if you're not in Japan no one really wants to talk with you... But over there they have no choice so you just push through. Coming out the other end, three months later i was able to talk at a reasonable level. Back in the states that is a very rare thing, and I've been able to find a couple Japanese girlfriends here with terrible English who were/are happy to have an English speaking bf, and I'm happy to talk almost exclusively jpnese with them. Now, although my vocab isn't up to reading novels and I couldnt work in a company, I can talk comfortably about pretty much anything.
You might consider investing in a long vacation to Japan homie. More that learning to speak, it will get you past this awkward part and you can learn Japanese with japanese people where you live. It's really the best way to learn anyway... Way better than books/srs. The only reason everyone doesn't do it is because no one wants to talk to a beginner since it's so painful. The language-learner's paradox...
ta12121
Member
From: Canada
Registered: 2009-06-02
Posts: 3190
dtcamero wrote:
I've been about 6 months behind you, following the updates. My reading and writing probably aren't as good as yours, but I took a slightly different path. Last summer I spent 3 months in Japan and it allowed me to turn that difficult corner of beginning speech. Its painfully awkward because you suck so bad and if you're not in Japan no one really wants to talk with you... But over there they have no choice so you just push through. Coming out the other end, three months later i was able to talk at a reasonable level. Back in the states that is a very rare thing, and I've been able to find a couple Japanese girlfriends here with terrible English who were/are happy to have an English speaking bf, and I'm happy to talk almost exclusively jpnese with them. Now, although my vocab isn't up to reading novels and I couldnt work in a company, I can talk comfortably about pretty much anything.
You might consider investing in a long vacation to Japan homie. More that learning to speak, it will get you past this awkward part and you can learn Japanese with japanese people where you live. It's really the best way to learn anyway... Way better than books/srs. The only reason everyone doesn't do it is because no one wants to talk to a beginner since it's so painful. The language-learner's paradox...
Well actually I'm planning on working/living in Japan a year from now (aiming for the summer of 2014 to officially go there and work but I will visit for at least 1 month with a friend next year)
What I know now is, doing more SRS reps isn't the key here(aside from maintaining and only adding a very small amount). Right now I say just keep working on building up my decks but targeting things that aren't my strength (grammar,writing,speaking,etc).
I actually signed up for immersion classes. So I had to go for a interview like a month ago. First off, it was in Japanese, second I had to take a test (it was focusing on understanding and grammar) and I got placed in upper-intermediate level (meaning only a few levels till "Advanced"). I told him what I am still having difficulty with. He honestly told me, it looks like you concentrated on vocabulary,kanji,reading and comprehension but still struggle with grammar and speaking. He said I don't need to worry, it won't take you long to develop your speaking skills.
P.S. the class is only taught in JP-JP. So I'm sure this will help me but outside this I have to fill my time with JPN stuff and JPN people if possible. I could aim to get a JPN gf but I think it wouldn't be right(looking at it the wrong way). The way I look at it is simple, be friends (do what friends do which is talk,hang out,eat-out,hang-out but all in JPN). Makes for some massive learning experience.
The interview itself was not bad but I did screw up a few times but I was surprised that I could explain something pretty clearly while others I couldn't come up with "words" that made sense in that context.
Right now I'm focusing on exercises that will help me boost my speaking. I honestly believe I can really boost it to high levels but like anything, it will take time (1 year sounds reasonable to me)
Last edited by ta12121 (2012 December 28, 12:07 am)
ta12121
Member
From: Canada
Registered: 2009-06-02
Posts: 3190
amtrack wrote:
First I believe congrats are in order, so congratulations! Secondly, have you ever taken an audio course? Its a good way to practice your speaking if it has the whole question/response thing (pimsleur does). If not, I'd definitely do that, as it really helps your speaking ability by developing that thought->Japanese link in your brain. Other than that, there's not much else. Maybe get a language partner or something.
edit: As for writing, participate in Japanese forums/blogs/read a looooot. The way I learned to write so well in English (about done with my Bachelor's degree) is that I read a lot. A lot a lot. And then of course I had to write. Read a bunch and keep a 'reading journal', where you talk about what you read. If that's too laborious, just do the forum thing lol. Idk how easy/hard it is for you to recall the kanji.
First off, thanks for the congratulations, appreciate it. I think I just need to keep aiming and working on that particle skill and it should pick up.
Seems like the best route to go but I just want to make sure I get corrected (lang-8 is the way to go for this). I think if I aim for a routine amount of output and make sure to put corrections into anki (works well actually). The thing with reading is that, it has to be enjoyable or at least interesting in a way. (P.S. will eventually get that new kindle once it gets an international release)
Last edited by ta12121 (2012 December 28, 12:21 am)
Good work!
That sounds kind of like where I was at when I'd been studying for 3 years and 3 months. I also took the N1 right around the 3 year mark.. a little before I guess.
Now I've been at it for 4 years and 4 months (odd coincidence?) and have just become comfortable calling myself bilingual. Original goal was to be commanding the language like a native in 5 years. With 8 months left and now living in Japan.. that seems do-able.
How is your comprehension good but grammar poor? What exactly is being considered grammar? Either way- I figure the best way to fix any and all problems is to forget the explanations and just do more and more in Japanese. 8) (Especially at this point.)
I stopped getting explanations after year 3 (and my explanations for all of year 3 were J-J 国語 style) and just dove in. Games, books, websites, friends. I also had a couple of... "life experiences," let's say, in Japanese. Those helped. Haha. Anyway experience life in Japanese! That should do the trick!
[Edit: I just noticed that I joined this website one day before you. Interesting. Haha. I wasn't lucky enough to find all the good stuff until I'd already studied Japanese at university for a year. :\]
Last edited by drdunlap (2012 December 28, 2:30 am)
ta12121
Member
From: Canada
Registered: 2009-06-02
Posts: 3190
drdunlap wrote:
Oh and to add to your list of worries, I guess (I'm such a good person):
1. Nuance. Not just similar vocabulary with different nuances but like.. word-play, jokes, turns of phrase and the like. How's your understanding of nuance?
2. Appropriately misusing the language (can I say that?). Natives are always breaking apart their own language and having fun with it. Sometimes natives also say things that aren't technically correct but no one cares because other people do the same thing. How's your ability to correctly use Japanese incorrectly?
-- I've recently noticed just how big a part these two points play in understanding a language or "being fluent". I am tormented by Japanese people who otherwise use English reasonably well but are completely unable to deal with subtlety or humor. Perhaps because I'm a big fan of word-play in English I was able to pick it up relatively quickly in Japanese. Or maybe it's because I'm living in Kansai where we live and breath humor. I don't know... but I'm glad I did.
Even if I've added to your list of worries- don't worry!
I firmly believe that any and all bumps can be smoothed out by simply existing in <language> for a while. (Why? Because that's how I did it and I'm no genius!) I can't remember why Japanese works like it does- but it does. Internalizing through experience. Just do iiiit.
1.Not too bad, things do slip once in a while but I can usual figure them out. If I can't, I will search them up and decode them if I need to.
2. That makes prefect sense but not sure why I laughed at that one. Your probably talking about how they randomly (on purpose) use language that isn't usual said(because it's sounds off,etc). I do joke around with some Japanese friends I have but there is still a lot of things I can't do too. I'm not really worried so much at this point in time but sometimes annoyed. I always have this feeling I should be at my goal already but I've figured out it doesn't work that way. I should just keep going and focusing on my weak points to make them into strong points(getting used to it).
haha cool. I get what your saying. Try to go more into that as it should give you a boost in understanding the underlining/humor of what is being said. On a side note: I'm aiming to live/work in 北海道 (well still researching and planning of course, so it could easily change)
Haha awesome. That is actually how I remember getting better at reading and comprehending the language. Just kept doing it over and over again and it finally just got internationalized (don't have that auto-translator going off anymore like I did when I started)
Last edited by ta12121 (2012 December 28, 10:42 am)
undead_saif
Member
From: Mother Earth
Registered: 2009-01-28
Posts: 635
ta12121 wrote:
Haha awesome. That is actually how I remember getting better at reading and comprehending the language. Just kept doing it over and over again and it finally just got internationalized (don't have that auto-translator going off anymore like I did when I started)
About the auto-translator, how long did take you to do that? And, is Japanese your second or third (or more) language?
I'm still a very beginner, but I don't feel I auto-translate that much, I just read or listen and understand, or maybe I'm not aware of it at all 
. I think it's because Japanese has a unique grammar, or maybe because it's my third language.
Edit: On average, how much time did you spend on Japanese everyday, both learning and using?
Thanks.
Last edited by undead_saif (2012 December 28, 11:57 pm)
ta12121
Member
From: Canada
Registered: 2009-06-02
Posts: 3190
undead_saif wrote:
ta12121 wrote:
Haha awesome. That is actually how I remember getting better at reading and comprehending the language. Just kept doing it over and over again and it finally just got internationalized (don't have that auto-translator going off anymore like I did when I started)
About the auto-translator, how long did take you to do that? And, is Japanese your second or third (or more) language?
I'm still a very beginner, but I don't feel I auto-translate that much, I just read or listen and understand, or maybe I'm not aware of it at all . I think it's because Japanese has a unique grammar, or maybe because it's my third language.
Edit: On average, how much time did you spend on Japanese everyday, both learning and using?
Thanks.
Umm, hard to remember. Maybe a year for it to fade out completely, can't remember honestly. Japanese is technically my third language that I know but my native language I don't know well enough so I'll just say I know 2 languages.
I'd say for the first 2 years I went all out and learn/immersed like mad (I did it for the majority of the days). I don't recommend you do this though, at least dedicating certain parts of the day to Japanese should help you get better at it. If you want to get better at it, just make sure you do something everyday. Within a year your daily "effort" will pay off.
P.S. try to do enjoyable stuff and immerse in materials, it helps to keep you motivated in the long run.
Last edited by ta12121 (2012 December 29, 1:19 am)
