heyer
New member
From: Denmark
Registered: 2012-05-29
Posts: 5
Hey there. I recently finished RtK and wanted to start doing some vocab training. I've been wondering though. Is it better to go from english to japanese or from japanese to english? I've done a bit of vocab before and it feels as if I can't reproduce words I can read. Is this something i should be worried about? Should all my focus be on reproduction and let the reading come by itself?
magamo
Member
From: Pasadena, CA
Registered: 2009-05-29
Posts: 1039
Ideally, it's either "Japanese to thought" or "thought to Japanese." But some people seem to find it difficult. If you don't think it's easy, it might work to use English or some other language you speak when going back and forth between thinking and verbalization. In this case, both seem equally inefficient, and probably it doesn't make much difference.
Output is far more difficult than simply understanding spoken/written language for obvious reasons. So you don't need to worry about it too much now. If it's not obvious to you, never mind. It's just for the vast majority of human beings it's quite difficult to be coherent or even make sense when you yourself don't understand what you're saying.
Last edited by magamo (2012 October 07, 5:07 am)
magamo
Member
From: Pasadena, CA
Registered: 2009-05-29
Posts: 1039
heyer wrote:
Ah. So you wouldn't recommend practing output?
It just seemed to me as a "two birds with one stone" approach, since I wouldn't have to learn to write it, after I learned to read it. Which is basically what happened to hiragana and katakana to me ;S
I wouldn't say you must avoid any kind of output practice like the plague. After all, sooner or later you should do some practice if you want to be good at speaking and writing. But it doesn't seem like you're at the level where output practice is extremely efficient. Then again, it depends on your goal and situation. For example, if you don't need to be that good, whatever you do, you won't fail unless you quit learning Japanese altogether. If you have to take a standardized test, you might want to check if it tests your output skill. Besides, different learning methods work for different people. And it's definitely to each his own. One thing I'm perfectly sure is you're better off learning Japanese in whatever way you like than posting in this thread unless you're practicing English.
Thanks for starting this thread @OP.
@magamo: Whenever I read your entries I'm getting very motivated again studying more and harder, but I wonder how you reached such a high level of proficiency in terms of your output. It's grammatically fully correct, it is a very sophisticated way of writing! Reading your entries in this thread here concerning output/input, I feel confused in what way I can increase my output becoming correct and 'native sounding'.
Do you have some technique/motivating words that might make me overcome the fear of reading? Whenever I read there are so many unknown words.. Same for listening! However, when I listen to Russian TV, I can simultanously translate the equivalent German without any efford. It's just so easy, I always work as a translator for my cousine's boyfriend at family gatherings. I know this is due to the fact that I have been listening actively to Russian and German both for more than 18 years now. I have too high expectancies (I'm a perfectionist and kind of 勤勉) and I know that, but it is difficult screwing them down :s
rich_f
Member
From: north carolina
Registered: 2007-07-12
Posts: 1708
@Tori-kun: First, are you sure you're reading stuff that's at your level? I got frustrated a lot when I tried to read books I just wasn't ready for yet. So I dropped the difficulty a bit and studied vocab when I had time for it. Grammar helps, too. I found it very motivating to finish off a book that was at my level, vs. struggling with a book that I just wasn't ready for yet. (And getting demotivated.)
@magamo True words about learning vs. posting.
My experience has been that reading is great for reinforcing passive vocabulary. And as my passive vocabulary increases, then eventually a certain percentage of it will spill over into my active vocabulary. (Not sure about exact percentages.)
Listening to a LOT of Japanese (4 or so hours a day) over a few years has helped my passive listening skill a lot, but it has also helped my active speaking skill a bit, because I have a better idea of what right/wrong Japanese sounds like. (It's very rough, but you get my point.)
But the thing that really helps my speaking skill is more speaking (well, writing helps a bit, but it's not quite the same, because someone isn't waiting for you to finish that sentence NOW.)
Generally, when starting, walk first. Get good at walking. Then amble, trot, lope, jog, and then you can run. Reading and listening are really good walking skills. Speaking and writing are more like loping/trotting. Or maybe skipping, because it's a little tricky at first and it feels awkward if you're not used to it. But they all help you get from A to B.
chamcham
Member
Registered: 2005-11-11
Posts: 1444
heyer wrote:
Should all my focus be on reproduction and let the reading come by itself?
If you're really horny and can't take it anymore, then yes, focus on reproduction 
Do you know basic Japanese grammar? If not, I'd suggest Tae Kim.
Otherwise, I'd suggest "Japanese Sentence Patterns for Effective Communication".
You can read the reviews on Amazon. There's even an Anki spreadsheet for it.
