聞こえる

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shyoko New member
Registered: 2012-08-07 Posts: 3

I came to understand that  聞こえる means to be heared or to be audible  and takes the particle が instead of を, wich mean that what comes before the が is what’s audible.

As in :  変な音が聞こえる.
I hear a strange sound.

I came across this sentence.

皆が聞こえるようにはっきりと話しなさい.
The translation was :  Speak clearly so that everyone may hear you.

Based on my original understanding i would have translated it as :

Speak clearly so that (i) can hear everyone.

Maybe my version doesnt make as much sense but that’s how i understood it, my question is,  does 聞こえる  also mean to « hear / be able  to hear » something ?
if thats true  then a simple sentence such as 皆が聞こえる can mean both « Everyone can hear (me) » and « (i ) can hear everyone) ? »
Finally  there’s this sentence :

彼女がその歌を歌うのがよく聞こえた
(I ) often heard her sing that song.

Must 彼女necessarily be the  subject of 歌う ? Or can it also be interpreted as the subject of 聞こえた wich will transform the meaning of the sentence to :

She often heard that song being sung.

Sorry if im missing something important or if this was already asked.

Last edited by shyoko (2012 October 05, 4:20 pm)

yudantaiteki Member
Registered: 2009-10-03 Posts: 3619

聞こえる means both "to be audible" and "to be able to hear".

Because of the particle が, 彼女 is the subject of 歌う.  If it were は, your suggestion would be correct.  (It might be theoretically possible for 彼女 to be the subject of 聞こえる even with the が, but I think it's very unlikely.)

Zgarbas Watchman
From: 名古屋 Registered: 2011-10-09 Posts: 1210 Website

First of all, either that sentence has a mistake or it uses a grammatical aspect I'm unfamiliar with(is 聞きこえる a thing?), most likely the former.

Japanese verbs do not change their forms depending on the person, therefore it is often context which reveals the subject of each sentence. However, this one is pretty straightforward. "聞こえる" means "X can hear". Also "聞こえるように" is commonly used as "loud enough to be heard". If it doesn't have a subject then yes, it's implied that the speaker is the one doing the listening, but in this case there is a subject. Also, the "speak clearly so that I can hear everyone" just doesn't make enough sense for extra details to be necessary.

As for 彼女がその歌を歌うのがよく聞こえた, it's the two がs that make the difference.
かのじょ(S1) が(particle linking S1 to something) そのうた(direct object) を (particle marking a direct object) 歌う(verb) の (nominalization particle) が(clearly marks the previous sentence as the direct object) よく聞こえた(verb).

Notice that the first sentence makes no sense without 彼女 as the subject of it. Had the first particle been は then yes, the sentence could be interpreted as "she often heard this song being sung", however as she is the subject of ”she often sings this song” then it makes no sense for her to be the subject of the main phrase.

Not sure if this helped. I'm sure someone could come up with a better explanation.

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shyoko New member
Registered: 2012-08-07 Posts: 3

Thanks for the replies  it really helped, indeed the " 聞きこえる" was a mistake from my part sorry about that smile

Now that i know that  聞こえる can have both meanings its less confusing, its true that the context makes it clear wich is the subject and thats what made me believe there was something wrong with my interpretation of the sentence.

As for the last sentence i guess  i need to get more familliar with the use of は and が particles, wich i hope will come  naturally with practice.

Last edited by shyoko (2012 October 05, 4:01 pm)

magamo Member
From: Pasadena, CA Registered: 2009-05-29 Posts: 1039

I don't know how you learned grammar, but that particular point you're having trouble with may be easier to understand through the functions of Japanese particles rather than the meaning of the verb 聞こえる.

In English, word order typically dictates which noun refers to who did the action and what gets the action done on. For example, the only difference between "X hears Y" and "Y hears X" is the order of words. In the former, X specifies "who does," and Y is what is heard. In the latter example, the relation is the opposite: Y is the one who hears something that is called X.

In Japanese, word order doesn't generally function this way. Instead, particles such as は, を, and に do this job. In your case, the problem is that you're implicitly assuming that particle が must take a unique, predetermined function (or meaning if you will) when preceding the verb 聞こえる. This assumption is not correct, and technically it may take any of the various functions/meanings が has.

As you probably already know, が may work to specify who/what does the action described by the main verb, e.g., 友達が家に遊びに来た (My friends came to my place). It can specify what is the target of the verb, e.g., これが好き (I like this). There are many functions when it comes to particle が, and it's impossible to explain them through English translation and English grammar in a simple manner. But the point you're trying to understand may be understood this way:

The が in 変な音が聞きこえる is specifying the target as in これが好き (I like this) while the other が in 皆が聞きこえるようにはっきりと話しなさい is working as a marker for "who does it."

All three examples in OP are grammatically correct and have natural interpretations. The first translation for each sentence is the most likely one.

If you show "Xが聞こえる" without giving any further information about X, the most natural interpretation of the sentence is "I hear X." Pretty much every native Japanese speaker interpret it this way. In this sense, what you learned isn't completely wrong. However, depending on the actual content X and context, が may work as a different kind of grammatical marker. The example sentence 皆が聞きこえるようにはっきりと話しなさい is a good one for this.

If you want to avoid ambiguity, you can use に for this particular case: 皆に聞きこえるようにはっきりと話しなさい. The functions of が and に are slightly different here, but the end results are pretty much the same. If this example is taken from native material, probably the concept the speaker had in mind matched the が version better, though they're the same difference, if you ask me.

If you're perplexed by the fact that が can have two functions in Japanese, think of how English word "if" works. You say, "Please let me know if you need help." What do you really mean by this sentence? There are at least two possible interpretations:

1. You want the listener to tell you whether he needs help.
2. You want the listener to tell you should he end up in a situation where he needs help.

The former interpretation is possible because "if" can mean pretty much the same thing as "whether" in this kind of sentence. But "If" also means "provided that," "on the condition that" or something along those lines.

Your question has nothing to do with は, and every Japanese example given in your post sounds natural and correct. Aaand you won't come back to this thread again, I don't think... Oh, well. I'll post this anyway.

prink Member
From: Minneapolis Registered: 2010-11-02 Posts: 200

Adding on to what others have already said, 聞こえる is an intransitive verb. It takes が rather than を, because intransitive verbs are do not require an agent.

Examples:
I am listening to music. 私は音楽を聞いています。 (transitive)
Music can be heard. (literal translation) 音楽が聞こえる。 (intransitive) -- This sentence can also be translated to: "I can hear music."

If you're ever unsure whether a verb is transitive or not, try looking it up on WWWJDIC. Notice, for 聞こえる, "vi" is in parenthesis. This means verb intransitive. If you look up 聞く, you'll see "Vt" in parenthesis for verb transitive.

You can find more on transitivity pairs here: http://www.guidetojapanese.org/learn/gr … transitive

Hope that helps clear up any remaining questions you may have had, and welcome to the site.

Last edited by prink (2012 October 05, 5:07 pm)

shyoko New member
Registered: 2012-08-07 Posts: 3

Thanks for the addition its much clearer now, i must say i had a vague idea about the different functions of が,  now that i think about the "if" exemples it makes more sense.

Thanks for the links prink i was planning to go through the guidetojapanese website soon.

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