I watch this show semi-regularly in the US on TV-Japan. I never could find it when I was in Japan, though. I've been watching it for a few years now. (3 or so?) They usually show it in Spring/Summer, then put it to bed for a few months.

My main problem with the show is that I don't care if other people think something is cool or not.

It kind of feels like your friend just got a bad haircut, and keeps asking you if it's cool. Honestly? You asking me if it's cool or not is *really* not cool.

IMO, cool is doing your thing and not worrying about what some random group of people think, no matter where they come from. (Not talking about crime or discrimination or anything like that.) But if you're a hard-core 鉄オタ, then がんばれ! Be the best 鉄オタ you can be.

That's the part of the show I find annoying. I like some of the segments, because they sometimes go to interesting places and see/do interesting things. (If I'm paying attention, I take notes for things to do someday.)

Some of the discussions are pretty intelligent, because you get insights from other cultures as well as the specialists. And of course, I like how Mogami-san just てきとうに grabs something and claims it to be the best of cool. At first I was confused, now I realize that that's just his schtick. (It's kind of like, "Which part of Japanese architecture is the coolest?" and he'll pick "The elevator!" Heh.) One time, he picked that nasty factory-made gummy sweet white bread over some gorgeous hand-made bread made be a guy in Tokyo who spent years refining his craft. Doh.

They did a whole episode on 婚活 that was a little creepy, but generally very informative, but nothing episode-wise really sticks out for me. It's a nice way to learn some Japanese, tho.

One thing I wish for-- that they'd let the foreigners who can speak Japanese, speak it to help dispel the myth that (except for Pakkun) We All Speak English And Can't Speak Japanese Because It's Too Hard To Learn.

One final thing I wish NHK in general would do-- give us the addresses and names of the businesses they visit! But they do that with just about all of their shows.

My favorite people are the Mexican guy (I want to have a beer with him), and the French lady, because when she hates something, she REALLY HATES IT.

Oh, and if you really want to see a uniquely Japanese show, I HIGHLY recommend Wooden Railway Stations in Japan. 5 minutes/episode, and it's just awesome. They did like 3-4 series of that. (~100 episodes, IIRC.)

Last edited by rich_f (2012 October 04, 4:57 pm)

that maid cafe has been featured on many shows. i remember it being featured on arashi no shukudai-kun.

嵐の宿題くん《八嶋智人》 it's the episode with this guest if anyone's interested. it was a funny episode.

it aire d 20100111

Last edited by howtwosavealif3 (2012 October 04, 6:13 pm)

qwertyytrewq wrote:

What I don't like about the show from what I've seen so far, is that for whatever reason, the female guests tend to have less interesting, less funny, or less informative, maybe even less constructive things to say (especially the one from New Zealand). The female host is the exception. This fact is none more evident than in the Akihabara episode. Maybe it's because of the subject matter but the situation isn't much better in other episodes. Maybe the late Christopher Hitchens had a point.

I have watched a bit more of the show and I mostly retract this statement. The Akihabara episode, due to the various subject matter, was more of an exception where the female guests ventured into their "irrational women statements" mode. The women were more reasonable in other episodes.

rich_f wrote:

My main problem with the show is that I don't care if other people think something is cool or not.

It kind of feels like your friend just got a bad haircut, and keeps asking you if it's cool. Honestly? You asking me if it's cool or not is *really* not cool.

IMO, cool is doing your thing and not worrying about what some random group of people think, no matter where they come from. (Not talking about crime or discrimination or anything like that.) But if you're a hard-core 鉄オタ, then がんばれ! Be the best 鉄オタ you can be.

That's the part of the show I find annoying. I like some of the segments, because they sometimes go to interesting places and see/do interesting things. (If I'm paying attention, I take notes for things to do someday.)

I got the impression that whether something is "cool or not" is mostly just a minor part of the show. The show is light-hearted (yet informative) in general so I don't think the "cool" judgments are meant to be taken seriously. It's just a very easy and very simple barometer about what the guests think about something right at the last few seconds of the show.

rich_f wrote:

One thing I wish for-- that they'd let the foreigners who can speak Japanese, speak it to help dispel the myth that (except for Pakkun) We All Speak English And Can't Speak Japanese Because It's Too Hard To Learn.

The website states that they look for guests who are temporarily living in Japan (lived in Japan for less than 1 year). It doesn't seem like they're looking for foreigners who have mastered everything Japanese.

rich_f wrote:

My favorite people are the Mexican guy (I want to have a beer with him), and the French lady, because when she hates something, she REALLY HATES IT.

So far, I like the Journalist guy from Norway: he has useful and informative things to say because it is in his nature as a Journalist. Italy guy is also similar to Norway guy and they're usually swapping interesting info between them on the show. I also like the slightly Chubby British guy because he seems likable and down-to-earth. Australia girl is also pretty good and seems to have her head screwed on straight (not prone to irrational statements). America girl (the one with long blond hair) is also interesting and peculiar. When asked whether she thinks Japanese men are "manly", she replied yes, even though everyone else said no (except for one guy, I think the guy from Norway). Kudos at least for sticking to her own opinion instead of being pressured into following the crowd. As I mentioned earlier, the worst is still New Zealand girl.

The hosts on first impressions seem mismatched, but they do the job without a problem. The male host does a fine job of steering the conversation along and keeping things light-hearted. Is the female host white or half-white? What's her history?

Last edited by qwertyytrewq (2012 October 08, 10:38 am)

The female host is Risa Stegmayer and she is half Japanese/German from America. She has been involved with several other broad castings in Japan. Last but not least, she is a total babe.

qwertyytrewq wrote:

I could even argue that the female waitress with short shorts is worse because of the clear sexualization (I thought women didn't like to be sexualized?). In comparison, the Japanese maid's outfit is very conservative and showing very little skin and to me, is nothing more than fantasy (from the point of view of men) and playing dress-ups (from the POV of women).

Is it because it's childish (which was a word thrown around a lot during that segment) as opposed to sexualized? What's so childish about it? As I said, the Japanese maid is simply a piece of fashion/costume, no different from anything else in the fashion world where women play dress-up.

I don't understand. Either I'm being irrational or they are.

First off, I didn't watch the video.

But, I think here you are forgetting that in Japan both outfits and childishness are highly sexualized.  You come off here as if child-like cuteness and sexual desirability are opposites, and though some might find it creepy that's just not true in Japan. 

Also, how sexualized an outfit is is unrelated to the amount of skin showing.  Maid outfits are seen as very sexual.  Kimonos are sexualized too (there are plenty of sketchy massage places, etc., which have girls in kimono), and they are very conservative outfits. 

I've been to maid cafes a few times, and the girls definitely are purposely placing themselves dead center into a certain genre of Japanese sexuality.

While I haven't seen the episode (I should probably check it out), I do want to toss in one small tidbit in this discussion to make it a bit more interesting perhaps.

Maid cafes are effectively re-imaginings of the Geisha/Floating World culture. With geisha you hire a woman or women to be effectively be escorts. They perform, serve drinks, provide light conversation, and provide hints of allure for their patron. There are very specific dress codes within the culture and protocols.

Maid cafes provide girls that perform, serve food, provide light conversation, give company, and provide different kinds of allure (The pretty girl you want to date, the tsundere, the little sister, etc.). The difference is that maid cafes don't require tons of money and they don't require invitations.

Anything can be sexualized though.

Last edited by vix86 (2012 October 09, 8:10 am)

Tzadeck wrote:

But, I think here you are forgetting that in Japan both outfits and childishness are highly sexualized.  You come off here as if child-like cuteness and sexual desirability are opposites, and though some might find it creepy that's just not true in Japan.

I'm doing the Core 6000 vocabulary on Anki and one important thing is that just because a Katakana word sounds like an English word, doesn't mean that the Katakana word and the English word has the same meaning. For example, "manshon" is the Japanese pronunciation of the English word "mansion." In English, mansion means a massive building with 10 bedrooms. In Japanese, a mansion is merely a higher-class apartment.

To relate back to the issue, are women in Japan "childish" and are Japanese men sexually attracted to this "childishness"? For some people looking at Japan from the outside, maybe they are childish. However, perhaps from the point of view of Japan, the women aren't childish, they're just acting as they should be in society. Perhaps what we call childish is to them, femininity.

If Japanese women are childish, then what are Western women? Maybe Western women are acting like women. Some people disagree however, particularly white males in that society. To those white males, Western women aren't childish, they're not even feminine, in fact, they're act like men. That's a common reason among white males who seek Asian partners: To them, Asian women are perceived to be feminine, while Western women are too masculine for their tastes.

Actually, I don't know what point I'm trying make here (I'm neither agreeing or disagreeing with you) so I'll just awkwardly end this sentence.

Tzadeck wrote:

Also, how sexualized an outfit is is unrelated to the amount of skin showing.  Maid outfits are seen as very sexual.  Kimonos are sexualized too (there are plenty of sketchy massage places, etc., which have girls in kimono), and they are very conservative outfits.

Well then, everything is sexualized then and a discussion is pointless. Never underestimate man's sexualization of everything female. You go from the obvious: the breasts, the legs. Then you've got revealing costumes. Then you've got the less obvious: sexualization of costumes that AREN'T revealing, there's the feet fetish, the armpit fetish, and also the ankle fetish, common among Muslim men (because their women are completely covered up, with very small glimpses of female ankles as she walks.

As for maid outfits you've got the sexual (the stereotype French Maid outfit) and then you've got the more conservative and modest ones, like the one shown on the Cool Japan episode (which you didn't watch). You can't even see her legs. That's why I found it confusing why New Zealand girl preferred sexualized short skirt on rollerskates over the maid. She didn't give a reason to satisfy my curiosity.

Tzadeck wrote:

I've been to maid cafes a few times, and the girls definitely are purposely placing themselves dead center into a certain genre of Japanese sexuality.

I don't know where we're going with this discussion but I guess the main thing to take away is as Vix86: men will sexualize anything and everything involving females.

With that known, where do we go from here?

Here's a question: how can a woman completely unsexualize herself? Remember that even a completely covered up Muslim woman can be sexualized. One way is physical sexualization of Muslim women (glimpses of her ankles) and the mental (I'm sexually attracted to sexually conservative women, I want to know what's hiding under her burka, etc).

Tzadeck wrote:

raharney wrote:

qwertyytrewq wrote:

Maybe the late Christopher Hitchens had a point.

Which was???

Hitchens wrote a somewhat infamous Vanity Fair piece where he argued that women generally aren't as funny as men, and the reason is that men need to be funny to attract women.  Women, on the other hand, are already quite appealing to men with no need for the extra icing in the cake.

Yes, I was referring to that.

It's interesting. I have NEVER heard a man offline or online say "I want a girl who is funny (among other things)" but the opposite is infinitely more common.

Last edited by qwertyytrewq (2012 October 09, 11:24 am)

qwertyytrewq wrote:

To relate back to the issue, are women in Japan "childish" and are Japanese men sexually attracted to this "childishness"? For some people looking at Japan from the outside, maybe they are childish. However, perhaps from the point of view of Japan, the women aren't childish, they're just acting as they should be in society. Perhaps what we call childish is to them, femininity.

I've lived in Japan for five years, which is long enough to get the difference between Japanese femininity and exaggerated childishness.  Japanese people themselves quickly stamp words like もえ and 子供っぽい onto women or characters who do the exaggerated childishness thing (though, the word もえ is fairly complicated), thus trying to separate them from the still strong notion of femininity that exists in Japan.

qwertyytrewq wrote:

Well then, everything is sexualized then and a discussion is pointless. Never underestimate man's sexualization of everything female. You go from the obvious: the breasts, the legs. Then you've got revealing costumes. Then you've got the less obvious: sexualization of costumes that AREN'T revealing, there's the feet fetish, the armpit fetish, and also the ankle fetish, common among Muslim men (because their women are completely covered up, with very small glimpses of female ankles as she walks.

You throw away you argument about how 'anything can be sexualized' by pointing out at the beginning that there is an obvious pecking order for more sexualized things.  Breasts, legs, revealing costumes, etc.  Well, guess what, there's a pecking order of sexualized things in Japan and outfits like maids, school uniforms, school bathing suits, and nurse outfits are clearly high on that list and it's obvious (just look at porn sites made for Japanese people).  Sure everything can be sexualized, but in different cultures different things are more popularly considered sexual, and it's obvious to anyone from that culture.

qwertyytrewq wrote:

Here's a question: how can a woman completely unsexualize herself?

Frida kahlo?
I would guess the most effective way is to eliminate difference between genres, a muslim woman may be sexualized because she covers and men don't. But women are pretty so I see no point in doing so.

I'm really enjoying this thread, keep it up

Now that I got that out of the way, I want to point out something hilarious.

qwertyytrewq wrote:

...and also the ankle fetish, common among Muslim men (because their women are completely covered up, with very small glimpses of female ankles as she walks.

You just gave me a good laugh! Where did out get that from? Didn't you know that in Muslim countries with high number of all-covered women, to be precise they're Saudi Arabia, Qatar, Oman and Yemen, women mostly leave their eyes uncovered? So eye fetish is dominant in cities (it differs between cities in those countries) with most women covering, and so you find that most romantic poetry there talks about the eyes!

Sorry, off-topic but I couldn't hold it and it blends will with this fetish atmosphere

Last edited by undead_saif (2012 October 10, 1:52 pm)

To the question of "unsexualizing" something. Simply put, you can't.

You can change what is sexualized probably by changing social norms, but it would take a few generations for it to run its course before the change. In the end, you are still looking at probably something else being sexualized.

You can't unsexualize everything because humans are sexual creatures. It's how we are made and how every other creature is (pretty much) on the planet. It probably has something to do with the natural urge to categorize and discriminate things.

The only way to unsexualize would be to remove emotion or "the sexual urge" from the human mind, but then you place the entire species at risk of extinction [eventually].

I must have missed it though. But why is sexualization bad exactly? If we're being a bunch of Victorian prudes, I can understand it, but there is nothing inherently wrong with being sexual or attaching sexual traits to something. I get that it doesn't sit well with some people though when its closely attached to things that make people uncomfortable, such as child sexualization. Lets not forget that women sexualize stuff as well. There are certain things that many women find attractive and/or arousing on [wo]men (ex: shoulders, ass, chest, muscles, social status, money, etc. are just some of the stereotypical stuff).

raharney wrote:

By the way, I wonder if other countries, like the USA, UK, etc. could make programs like this, as in, have a bunch of foreigners sitting around talking in French about how they find the Chelsea flower show/Democratic Convention etc. really weird but interesting etc.
I wonder.

Wonder indeed. Since we are Westerners living in Western countries, Japan is a popular target of adjectives like "weird", "strange" and "what the f***?"

Those adjectives should apply just as well to elements of our own society, but because we are biased towards the environment we are born in, we don't see it that way.

In other words, instead of "Cool Japan", I would like to see "Cool West" and hear what non-Westerners have to say about things like religion, the American Political system where people actually register for a party, and... I don't know, help me out here. What are some weird things about Western countries? Like I said, I live in a Western country and I can't recognize what is weird due to the bias.

undead_saif wrote:

You just gave me a good laugh! Where did out get that from? Didn't you know that in Muslim countries with high number of all-covered women, to be precise they're Saudi Arabia, Qatar, Oman and Yemen, women mostly leave their eyes uncovered? So eye fetish is dominant in cities (it differs between cities in those countries) with most women covering, and so you find that most romantic poetry there talks about the eyes!

I could've sworn that I read somewhere that the ankle fetish was popular among Muslim men. Maybe it's just an urban legend? Then again, the feet fetish is very popular among all cultures and Muslims probably aren't an exception.

Nevertheless, I do agree that since everything is covered up, the eyes of a Muslim woman are a very noticeable characteristic and would be a likely candidate for the attention of Muslim men. The popular Afghanistan girl that was featured on the front of Time Magazine is a very obvious example.

It just goes to show that even the most unlikely of non-sexual organs (like eyes) can be sexualized.

Tzadeck wrote:

Well, guess what, there's a pecking order of sexualized things in Japan and outfits like maids, school uniforms, school bathing suits, and nurse outfits are clearly high on that list and it's obvious (just look at porn sites made for Japanese people).  Sure everything can be sexualized, but in different cultures different things are more popularly considered sexual, and it's obvious to anyone from that culture.

Japanese porn is an interesting point to bring up. As you may have heard, China and Japan are currently fighting over who should own some rocks in the middle of nowhere, and due to Chinese nationalism, Chinese people pretty much hate anything about Japan.

But they do love one thing: Japanese porn. In fact, I read somewhere that China is the biggest consumer of Japanese porn (with the possible exception of Japan itself). Big enough that the most recognizable Japanese porn star of all time (Sora Aoi) visits China occasionally and has even offered her own thoughts about the rock dispute.

Anyway, I'm pretty sure maids, school uniforms and nurse outfits are very popular in Western cultures too, so I don't see the difference. Maybe not school bathing suits because America doesn't really have a culture of uniforms in schools, but they're definitely not averse to school uniforms (see Catholic schoolgirls). But I'll grant that school uniforms are probably more popular in Japan than America.

umetani666 wrote:

i merely pointed out that women were more honest in their hate, while men were behaving extremely contrived. what's wrong with admitting you like pretty girls?

Interesting point. Why aren't men allowed to be honest and like something just because it has pretty girls in it (like AKB48 and Girls Generation) and not pretend to like sh*t music?

Maybe it's a society thing, similar to how girls can't admit that they like to suck and get penetrated by big, long penises. Because to do so would be un-ladylike.

Last edited by qwertyytrewq (2012 October 11, 11:57 am)