The thing is vocab study is deviously easy once you've done RTK. Don't get me wrong, vocab is still a long-term time-consumming commitment, but an easy one. Have you tried the RTK sample provided on the Reviewing the Kanji side of this website (top right)? I think it includes the introduction of the book which explains why the method is useful.

hang out! http://www.meetup.com/Japanese-Language-247/

Thanks for all the advice everyone. Thanks ardent for those links, I like the study methods and teaching philosophies given by them(more so for Japaneselevelup just cause I'm a big gamer myself). I don't know which method will be best for me yet until I really start to get my feet wet but I checked the sample and like what I saw so I think I'm going to give RTK a try. I'm planning on ordering it tonight cause no local bookstore has it in stock. Also I would like to share what I plan to do and use and want any advice you have either from experience or even just your opinion. So here's what I'm thinking of.


-First I was thinking of getting one of those electronic Japanese-English dictionaries to help me when I stumble upon a word I don't know cause I'm thinking of getting some books and downloading Japanese podcasts so I can still do some Japanese on the go. Is this a good idea or a waste of money, does anyone have experience with them, should I get a cheap one or middle of the road to expensive one (money isn't an issue as long as it's worth it)?

-I was also planning on an audio course to supplement my learning. I've checked out Rocket Japanese, Collins Easy Learning Japanese, and Teach Yourself Japanese to name a few but the MTM and Pimsleur seem the best from what I've read about them. Money isn't a factor so with that in mind is there any other audio courses I should check out?
(I also have Rosetta Stone I can use which would be free cause my friend said I could borrow it. I'm just wondering if I should go down that road or not. I've some good and bad things about Rosetta Stone. My friend said it would strengthen my vocabulary and help with my reading skills and mainly with speaking Japanese. I never used a Rosetta Stone program, but can anyone suggest going down this road from the feelings I get when I hear people talk about Rosetta Stone I feel like shelling out the money for the MTM or Pimsleur would be better cause not many people have any negative feelings about them like Rosetta Stone which has a more split opinion, but if anyone can suggest it I'll def keep it as an option.)

-Like I said before I'm going to try RTK but I've been looking at some other books that I can read during RTK or post RTK. I listed a bunch of books below that I thought might be helpful. I don't plan on buying them all and I may not even buy any but it can't hurt to research them to see if any of them are worthwhile. So if anyone has any info or experience with any of the books below I would like any advice even if it's just an opinion on if you think a book is a waste or not.
Book List
Making Sense of Japanese:What the textbooks don't tell you
A Dictionary of Basic Japanese Grammar
The Kodansha Kanji Learners Dictionary
Let's Learn Kanji
Japanese the Manga Way
Japanese Particle Workbook
Japanese in Mangaland
Japanese Grammar
The Handbook of Japanese Adjectives and Adverbs
Essential Kanji:2,000 Basic Japanese Characters Systematically Arranged for Learning and Reference
Basic Kanji Book Vol. 1

-I also want to use flash cards I was originally going to buy the White Rabbit Kanji cards but my friend said not to waste my money and use an online deck. I haven't narrowed my selection yet only cause I only know of the ANKI software. Although I heard it was pretty good what are some other good flash card programs out there. Also what are some of the features that the ANKI and other decks have.

-And finally is the GENKI I+II text and workbooks worth a shot. I've heard a lot of good things about the books. I know there a little bit pricey but I don't care if its a good resource to have. So if anyone has used it and recommends it or suggests not getting it please do let me know.

Well sorry again for the long post but I really appreciate everyone who has contributed some of their advice for where to start my Japanese. And if anyone has any advice for what I have laid out for myself please let me know cause I find all your advice helpful in someway.

Thanks EratiK for the book insight and the links I'll def be using them frequently. Also when you said I didn't need a kanji dictionary, we're you talking about the electronic one also or just the ones on my book list.

I have Japanese the Manga way and I read through the whole thing after finishing RTK 1+3 and prior to starting Genki 1.  It's a great primer if read from front to back and also a great reference book.  I definitely recommend getting it as it covers colloquial, conversational japanese pretty well where other materials have not helped me so much. 

I also have Genki 1 and I'm half way through.  I find that it covers the stuff I read in Japanese the Manga Way but I wouldn't say that Japanese manga Way stops at Genki 1.  There are a lot of details that are covered that Genki 1 doesn't cover and other texts don't either.  I really like Genki, as I feel that I'm building a solid understanding with the practice exercises.

I also have Kodansha's Kanji Learning dictionary.  it's great to have when you're learning the kanji, but since finishing RTK and knowing the general meaning of kanji's and how to write it, I don't really use it.  It shows you the kanji meaning in english (basically a keyword) and stroke order and some words it can appear in.  If you're going to do RTK... I dunno if you'll use it so much after.  But if you're not going to do RTK it may be handy to have to look up characters you encounter.

If i can't remember stroke order since Heisig stops showing you the stroke order sometime in the book.. i like using the RTK iphone app because it will animate out every kanji in RTK1.

RTK 1(+3) has made learning vocabulary much faster as i don't have to worry so much on the kanji aspect of it.  It's just a matter or remember the combination of kanji keywords for a particular vocabulary word.  much much better than remember the dots and lines that make them up.

In the end.. I feel that Genki is giving a good solid starting foundation so I wouldn't worry too much about the other books right now until later since Genki covers particles, and grammar and vocab.  I also love the audio cd which I just listen to without the text sometimes as review and pronunciation practice.  Definitely Japanese the Manga Way is a great PRIMER to get an overview of the entire language.  And afterwards a great reference book.

Thanks guy for all your input. Yeah I kinda thought I wouldn't really need any of the books before I posted it but I'm glad I did just in case I found a really good one that everyone seems to use.

Hyperborea wrote:

I would suggest getting a dictionary app for your Android/iOS device if you have one. For Android there are a number of free decent apps. It's really nice to have that dictionary handy when I'm reading and sitting on the couch. I've been using JED and it's been good enough and as a bonus you can tag the dictionary words you look up (multiple tags if you want) and then export them as a Google doc or an Anki deck. I've been using that to study the vocab I've looked up while reading.

I was going to get an electronic dictionary cause I heard it had features like saving recent words and stuff but if I can do basically the same thing I'll just buy an app(btw is JED only for android cause I have an iPad and I'm getting an iPhone in Dec, so if not does anyone have a good iOS app they can recommend?).

Miyumera wrote:

I second that.  definitely agree.  you don't need so many grammar, particle books in the beginning.  a good textbook will present things in an organized compounding manner, then whatever you don't understand you can grab a particle book or grammar book.  RTK will take a while though.  at least a month per 1000 kanji if you do 40 a day.  Buy the books as you need them.

I think I'll just buy a dictionary app and get the GENKI I textbook and RTK, vol.1(which I ordered last night) for now. Also I downloaded the anki software(haven't downloaded any decks yet) but I also heard there's an official RTK app which I'm curious about cause I'd be able to use that on the go as well, does anybody have or recommend this as a viable flashcard system over anki. And I'm still thinking of getting an audio course though but one that I can listen to in the car or on the go like Pimsluer or MTM just so I can learn some speaking cause I think it'll make it easier in the future but I'm not taking up my friends offer for the Rosetta Stone at least not for now. So I figure I'll start learning to recognize Kanji with RTK and learn some fundamentals with the Genki text and I'll use an audio course to listen to while I drive around and stuff and I'll see how this all works out for me and if it's too much I'll just put something on hold.

I also have a question based on the other 2 books. Now I know vol 1 has 2,000 kanji and vol 2 lists what the kanji mean and vol 3 is an extra 1,000 kanji. I'm just curious cause I've seen some people stopping after 1 or going straight to 3. So I'm just wondering is Heisigs method not as reliable for learning the readings of the characters? or am I better off learning the readings and pronunciation of the Kanji from another source? I know I haven't started 1 yet but I was just curious why some people opt for only 1 or 1&3.

Also do you guys practice writing them at all. I'm not talking about rote memorization but just to practice like maybe writing it 5 times or so? Well thank you for all your input everyone I'm really glad I stumbled on this community cause it's been really helpful. I feel a little like a nuisance asking so many questions but I'd rather know then not know. So anymore advice is always welcome!

For the iPad, there's a free dictionary called I Mi Wa (formerly Kotoba) that is pretty good.  it's based on some freely available resources and I've heard that it contains some mistakes because of that, but it's a pretty good resource.  It lets you lookup words in English, kana, romaji or by definition.  It also has an easy to use Kanji lookup that displays stroke order, readings,  and even an index into the common Kanji books.

http://phobos.apple.com/WebObjects/MZSt … 5&mt=8

There are paid dictionaries, but for free this one is hard to beat.

(Note: this isn't a universal app, so you need to double the screen for iPad).

Last edited by KallistiX (2012 September 18, 3:18 pm)

If I were to suggest one specific RTK post on Japanese Level Up, it would be this one. It's like effortless vocab exposure while doing RTK.

Thanks everyone for giving me great resources and what I think will be a solid way to start. Event if everything doesn't go so smoothly it will not all be for naught and I'll just find a way that works for me and will def come back here for help. My RTK should be coming at the end of the week or the beginning of next week and my GENKI textbook should be coming sometime withing the next two weeks. I didn't bother ordering the workbook yet. Is the workbook necessary from what I gather there just kinda worksheets based on the the lessons laid out in the book right. Also I tried the I Mi Wa dictionary app that KallistiX suggested which I thought was nice but I really took a liking to the one Miyumera suggested which was a really good buy in my opinion. I still haven't decided which audio course to go with, I'm gonna do a little more research before I commit to one. I appreciate all your advice now I gotta find something to practice until my books get here.

Hey I looked in the app store for the Japanese dictionary but I can't even find it... did they change the icon to say '日本語’ in white? by Renzo

I just typed in Japanese Dictionary and it was on the first page its still called Japanese and I don't know how it used to look but yeah thats what it says now in white.

Last edited by tguk911 (2012 September 20, 1:14 am)