Disambiguating "before" and "in front"

Index » RtK Volume 1

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dwhitman Member
From: pennsylvania Registered: 2007-09-19 Posts: 43

I keep mixing up 先 and 前 upon review, and looking at comments embedded in stories, it seems like a lot of other folks have the same trouble.

I'm considering building a distinction around 先 being temporal and 前 being spatial, but I'm wondering if that's a valid distinction in Japanese?  Does this reflect the true nuances of these characters or would a different way to split them be better?

Codexus Member
From: Switzerland Registered: 2007-11-27 Posts: 721

Unfortunately both can have temporal and spatial meanings.

先 has the additional nuance of precedence, priority. Maybe that can help you not confuse those two.

yukamina Member
From: Canada Registered: 2006-01-09 Posts: 761

Look up how they are used in Japanese?

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Floatingweed5 Member
From: Scotland UK Registered: 2007-03-10 Posts: 120

I remember having trouble with these too, and at the time I used brute force (i.e. failed them constantly until they stuck) until I memorized them. That's a really inefficient way of working though, and in similar situations later on I have taken an aspect of the key word (for example, maybe using the "four" in "before", or setting the story for "in front" in the front line of a battle or something) and worked it into the story.

It's worth experimenting and finding a system that works for you at this early stage, because there are a lot more examples like this as you move on, sometime with 4 or 5 words having near identical meanings.

Last edited by Floatingweed5 (2007 December 07, 12:21 pm)

erlog Member
From: Japan Registered: 2007-01-25 Posts: 633

Tie the meaning of the kanji to a word that you know. 名前 is a great example for 前. Taken apart for RTK meanings, it's literally, 'name' + 'in front.' 'name' + 'before,' wouldn't make as much sense because it doesn't have the same closeness in sound to first/front.

Ramchip Member
From: Canada Registered: 2006-09-22 Posts: 108

お前 is also a good word to show the distinction. It means 'the person in front', the one you're speaking with. 'The person before' wouldn't really make sense.

dwhitman Member
From: pennsylvania Registered: 2007-09-19 Posts: 43

Good suggestions, thanks!

samuize Member
From: Tokyo Registered: 2007-02-20 Posts: 18

I think this illustrates the problem with only relying on the english keywords. Presumably you already know the words まえ and さき so why not just review from the hiragana when the english keywords are problematic?

Katsuo M.O.D.
From: Tokyo Registered: 2007-02-06 Posts: 887 Website

"Before" sounds like "Beef or", so that must be the one with the cow in it.

Floatingweed5 Member
From: Scotland UK Registered: 2007-03-10 Posts: 120

Katsuo wrote:

"Before" sounds like "Beef or", so that must be the one with the cow in it.

* starred *

dukelexon Member
From: Utah Registered: 2007-12-02 Posts: 44

I don't know how much of a geek this will make me, but ... if you ever played the original Diablo for the PC, back in the day, there's an excellent way to remember the 前  kanji.

Recall that in the first part of the game, there was a pretty nasty demon you had to confront ... called the "Butcher."  The turd had a HUGE set of horns on his head, and he was set up in such a way in the game that you immediately triggered his bloodlust as soon as you first walked "in front" of his field of vision.  Back when I played Diablo, I just about crapped my pants every time I'd be strolling along, opened a random door, and realized I had attracted the Butcher's attention by walking in front of him (he'd growl and shout maliciously at you the second he saw you, too). 

Maybe I should post this in the public stories area for the kanji, but ... I remember it simply because I remember the Butcher demon as having big horns on his head, and you never wanted to walk "in front" of him.  The word "before" doesn't really work very well in that story ... "before" is a word that conveys something more like leading someone in a parade, or line.  Moving "in front" of someone, however, allows them to notice you for the first time at all ... particularly the Butcher demon.  It's easy to remember that way.  Seriously, imagine yourself getting chopped to friggin' pieces because of your mistake of moving "in front" of an unknown, vague shadow.  Vividness is good.  Imagine the agony.


If you need further help telling the two apart, the following also helped me --> I had the added benefit of knowing the kanji for 先生 (せんせい, sensei) already when I came to the "before" character with Heisig.  Think about what a "sensei" really is, and you're home with that character.

I know that the two kanji had the rough meaning of "before life," or preparing one for their life to come.  Remember that you learn from your sensei "before" your life really starts to get going.  Once again, "in front" doesn't work as a phrase in that kind of context ... "before" fits in much better, leaving little room for doubt.  Also, in keeping with the theme of the advice I provided above ... I actually hold the image of a teacher I absolutely LOVED in my mind ... someone I feel generally taught me what I needed "before" my life began.  Since I knew that 先 is used in the Japanese word for 'teacher,' and teaching is what comes "before" actually doing something ... I had what I needed.  Maybe it'll work for you, too.

Last edited by dukelexon (2007 December 09, 4:37 am)

ファブリス Administrator
From: Belgium Registered: 2006-06-14 Posts: 4021 Website

Nice one dukelexon!

Always go for the particular flavour of the english keyword, in this case "in front" is the spatial meaning.

But I reckon Heisig made things a little confusing because while "before" suggests temporal meaning, he also used a story with a spatial meaning for 先 "before" (something about being "before" another person if I remember well).

vosmiura Member
From: SF Bay Area Registered: 2006-08-24 Posts: 1085

For "in front" I use a spatial story like "in front of the butcher store" (you have butcher at the bottom, and animal horns at the top which makes it a butcher store to me).

For "before" I think I remembered better by looking at the frame after 先 which is 洗, and I have a temporal story for that "wash before you go out".

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