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ghinzdra wrote:
Just a last question : there s definetely no way to update cards from internet ? sometimes when I m reviewing I have ideas for improvement of the flashcards ....
Not at the moment but apparently there will be in the future. What I do is use google spreadsheets to record new flash cards and amendments. Then when I get home, I copy this to a text file in notepad and then import. There are instructions on the wiki for how to do this.
I know I saw the answer to this question somewhere, but how do you make a card that you previously set up to test only one way (Q->A) now test the other way (A->Q) as well?
Go to Edit -> Model Properties. Create a new card and choose which fields you want as the question and which fields you want as the answer. Use the settings for the existing card as a guide.
Check out the new screencasts:
http://ichi2.net/anki/index.html
and the wiki too.
i dont think that is quite the answer I was looking for.
I mean, I have a card the the Q side is a sentnece.
The A side has the reading for the Kanji I dont know in hiragana.
Now, I want to take that card, and have it test my the other way, from hiragana to kanji.
Ill check the screencasts and wiki
Hi,
there's a problem that I've been having for a weeks now. Anki doesn't update. When I close Anki, I get the following message: Errors occured - See the logfiles .../Anki.exe.log for details. I have Anki 0.9.5
Another question: I'm working on a desk for a friend. How can I reset all the cards, before I pass on the cards?
Ah, just found the option "reset progress".
Auto update was broken in 0.9.5. Install the latest version manually and you'll be back in business.
@watashimo
You can also use Export... from the File menu, and leave "Include Scheduling Information" unchecked.
As I'm still struggling to find the best way to use Anki I eventually found on supermemo website through a AJATT link a very interesting article about "the 20 rules of formulating knowledge" :
Among this mine of basic but challenging ideas they talk about "cloze deletion" and I found the idea mesmerizing . You mark a word and the sofware produce the sentence without the word . On a first look I didn't pay attention to it but on a second thought....
I suddenly realized that it's EXTREMELY relevant when you're studying langage in the kaztzu/antimemo/krashken way :the core of the theory is about mimicking and patterns and how your brain is able to mix those patterns to produce a brand new sentence . If I take an extreme example in the wake of Katzhu : if you learnt that the pen is under the desk , the book in under the desk , the box is under the desk and that the keys are in the box and the car is in the parking then you brain is able to come with the fact that the keys are under the car without pondering about it (as it has to do if you resort to the grammatical learning) . So this close deletion device is very similar to what is happening in your head according to the krashken theory when you're speaking naturally .Remind a pattern. Fill the blanks .
As Anki is currently able to produce 2 cards automatically I wondered if it wasn't possible that it produces a third card where the bold/underlined/marked word will be cloze deleted ?
I haven't the faintest idea of how hard it is to implement . I don't intend to go with supermemo as it's far too complicated and I don't want to jeopardize the miracle of balance that has reached Anki .... so I would stick with Anki whatever the answer may be .But is there any plan to add this feature to Anki ?
Last edited by ghinzdra (2008 March 24, 1:00 am)
if you're using a japanese model and have two cards, there's absolutely no point in using cloze deletions, since you're being asked to produce the full sentence and not a single word already.
>As Anki is currently able to produce 2 cards automatically I wondered if it wasn't possible that it produces a third card where the bold/underlined/marked word will be cloze deleted ?
you can have anki make as many cards as you want from each fact
well the thing is I have to learn quickly vocabulary and in the traditionnal way for my school....
They want me to know by heart some words for the exam . It's very short sighed .
And that's why I don't exactly follow the same procedure for my personal study (AJATT method) and the school study (trying to remind a word for the test) .
Furthermore I thought it could be interesting to have a double approach .Something like having a card kanji-> kana (former approach of katzhu), kana ->kanji (as in the new approach of khatzu) AND kanji with one word close deleted : kana with full answer. If you have already succeeded with the other cards of the fact it doesn't make much work and I think it would improve a lot your output without the drawback of the classical method .
>johnzep
for sure you can do it . It's one of the asset of Anki : it's really flexible . The thing is it's not automatic. But well I'll go with it . Anki is still way better than super memo. Just for my school deck I'm gonna create a field for the word and use the expression field for the sentence without the word . And I will create a third card called close deletion wich displays the expression field as the question and the answer will be made up by the word and the rest ( definition ,reading ,etc...) .I'll make a try .
Last edited by ghinzdra (2008 March 24, 6:33 am)
As a mac Anki user, I have been burned several times by Anki. While I think it is a great program, there are a few things that have caused me considerable amounts of frustration.
1) As far as I can tell, there is no way to delete a card. There is the edit deck function, but I don't see any sort of delete button. It is possible that there is a way, but there appears to be no help documentation about it. I have often accidently entered a card as both production and recognition (default is to do both), so I would love to be able to either:
a) change the card to only production or only recognition, or
b) delete the card and reenter it (as far as I can tell, neither of these are possible)
2) There is no help documentation about what I feel are some of the most basic features (syncing, deleting cards, what production and recognition means). A proper help document would do wonders!
3) Why can I not get back to the original card edit screen after I put in a card? The edit deck page is a severely crippled version of the original "add card" page.
4) PRODUCTION AND RECOGNITION: What do these terms mean?!??!??!??!?!? I realize that one will test from "Expression" to "Meaning" and the other one will test the other way, but several times have I sat entering cards for a couple hours only to realize I entered them all in the wrong way. This would be ok if....
5) You could change whether the card was a production/recognition or both card, but the Edit deck dialog box is severely crippled, as I mentioned above.
Sounds like a lot of griping, and I understand the programmer works on this out of his own good will, but I really want Anki to be the best it can be. I feel like there are a lot of good features and capabilities, but there are some basic things that have just held me back over and over again. Is it just the Mac version that is like this? Should I just do stuff on the PC?
danieldesu wrote:
1) As far as I can tell, there is no way to delete a card. There is the edit deck function, but I don't see any sort of delete button. It is possible that there is a way, but there appears to be no help documentation about it. I have often accidently entered a card as both production and recognition (default is to do both), so I would love to be able to either:
a) change the card to only production or only recognition, or
b) delete the card and reenter it (as far as I can tell, neither of these are possible)
All of the above is possible. In the edit deck window, select the cards you wish to delete, then click on "Actions on selected cards" in the top right. A menu will pop up. Click on delete.
There is one fact that contains all of the information and two cards that derive from it.
2) There is no help documentation about what I feel are some of the most basic features (syncing, deleting cards, what production and recognition means). A proper help document would do wonders!
It's true that the wiki is slightly lacking. Have you checked it out? http://ichi2.net/anki/wiki/Documentation
In the mean time, you can check out the Anki screencasts which are very helpful and cover deleting cards and syncing. Also, if you learn about something and think there should be documentation for it, please contribute to the wiki.
You can find out what production and recognition means here:
http://ichi2.net/anki/wiki/Key_Terms_and_Concepts
3) Why can I not get back to the original card edit screen after I put in a card? The edit deck page is a severely crippled version of the original "add card" page.
Not sure what you mean here. After you add a card, you can close that window and open the edit deck window. Or you can have both windows open at the same time and flick between them at will. The function of the add card window and the edit deck window are very different. One isn't meant to be a version of the other.
4) PRODUCTION AND RECOGNITION: What do these terms mean?!??!??!??!?!? I realize that one will test from "Expression" to "Meaning" and the other one will test the other way, but several times have I sat entering cards for a couple hours only to realize I entered them all in the wrong way. This would be ok if....
http://ichi2.net/anki/wiki/Key_Terms_and_Concepts
Why not rename or re-design the cards to something that works better for you? Click on Edit -> Deck Properties -> Models and choose whichever model you want to alter. Click edit and then rename the cards to whatever you want.
5) You could change whether the card was a production/recognition or both card, but the Edit deck dialog box is severely crippled, as I mentioned above.
Could you describe a bit more what you mean by 'crippled'? Why is it crippled? Everything you want to do is possible and pretty easy (I think). I think you're misunderstanding the terminology. There are facts which are like database entries and then cards which take information from the facts to use on the question side and take information to use on the answer side. When adding cards, you can add several cards for each fact or just one. In the edit deck window, if you change your mind, you can delete whichever cards you don't want or add missing cards you decide you do want.
It looks like you haven't really checked out the website, the screencasts or the wiki. Do you think that's fair? If you want support then people are glad to answer questions on the Anki forum.
Last edited by wrightak (2008 March 26, 8:24 pm)
@ghinzdra, re: cloze deletion
This might be able to accomplish what you're trying to do:
Create a model with four fields:
Begin
Middle
End
Back
Then create card types with the following fronts and backs:
Type 1:
%(Begin)s <b>%(Middle)s</b> %(End)s
%(Back)
Type 2:
%(Back)
%(Begin)s <b>%(Middle)s</b> %(End)s
Type 3:
%(Begin)s ____________ %(End)s
%(Middle)s
So suppose I created a card with the following fields:
Begin 氷が
Middle 滑りやすい
End ので、気をつけてください。
Back The ice is slippery, so please be careful.
Anki would produce the following 3 cards:
氷が滑りやすいので、気をつけてください。
The ice is slippery, so please be careful.
The ice is slippery, so please be careful.
氷が滑りやすいので、気をつけてください。
氷が_______ので、気をつけてください。
滑りやすい
Is that the kind of thing you want to do?
I had exactly the same idea ! even If i didn't take it so far (just one field for the close deletion : either vocab or grammar ) for reasons I'm going to discuss now .
I've eventually found a way to combine everything in Anki.
I created 9 fields
-Expression
-Reading_exp
-Translation_exp
-Vocabulary
-Reading_voc
-Translation_voc
-Grammar
-Others
-Source
Indeed it seems like there are some useless fields and that some of those are contrary to AJATT philosophy (translation for instance) but it allows me to merge everything .
There are 3 parts in my training currently : my school (yamasa) , AJATT through sentences I pick up everywhere (manga , conbini ,etc....) and vocabulary list I'm complied to study .
If I make 3 totally differents models of deck then it's very likely that when I'm through yamasa I'll drop all the stuff I studied with them cause I'll have to open 3 decks or at least that I won't be able to employ it as efficently as I want .
* Let's say I receive homework created by my japanese teachers . It's 100% sure as it has been created by japanese , there is a good balance between grammar , vocabulary and kanji . It's definetely useful .
So I will fill the expression field and the reading will be take care of by anki ... I will erase the question part of the sentence and put this part in grammar
If I have some comments about it : i'll put it in others
and I'll put the number of the lesson , date ,everything in source .
I put a homemork tag and it's done.
Right now I ignore the others field .
* Now I have to study some vocabulary list .
Even if most of the time background is required I guess we all agree sometimes we don't need background , we just need to learn it bruteforce , as much and as quick as possible.
so I will fill the vocabulary field , the reading and the traduction
If the word requires a background then I will search in ACL or Kodensha through Excite or if I don't like both of them in the challenge dictionnary Khatzu talked about .
Same thing that for homework . Except as it has not been designed by my teacher it's likely to be a little more difficult . If I REALLY need to I can put the translation written in the dictionnary .
In others I'll put a mnemotic way to remember the word , or the kanji used if it's in RTK3 for instance or I'll put other sentences I don't intend to use right now. Maybe eventually I'll realize that I don't like this sentence or that I need I more background to have a grasp on the sentence . I'll substitute the sentence exemple or I'll create another fact .
In source I'll put the dictionnary I used and I put a vocabulary or Yamasa tag whatever .
*Now I am reading some hikaru no go manga
I do it the AJATT way ... I put in Expression the sentence and If there are words that require definition ,etc... I'll put all this stuff in Others
In source I'll put Hikaru no go with the volume and the page (In fact I read my manga non stop and I just take the number of the page on a card when I'm done)
I tag it with AJATT .
Here comes the fun part :
On the beginning I have the same model but specific decks and cards for each one of those : I have a grammar card for the grammar deck wich enables me to review efficiently for a specific exam . I have a production and a recognition card for the AJATT deck . I have a vocabulary card for the Yamasa/vocabulary exam.
BUT some of the sentences in the grammar deck are really great for kanjis or vocabulary I can use them for others goals . Some sentences I put in vocabular facts to have some background would make great grammar cards . Etc....
Some of those have just one goal but some of those are really great and could be used in several ways and , as the supermemo webpages stress it , it's not exactly the same thing to have a close deletion question and a vocabulary question . So once in a while I'll create an other card for this great fact in this deck.I'll just have to fill the fields already prepared for this purpose . And as I know this fact through other cards I can make the intellectual jump more easily for the new card .
What's more right now I have several decks because I don't want to change the settings about which cards have to be created for each new fact . But once
I'll have reached a sufficient level
or I want to study another langage and that I don't want a lot of decks
or that I put my study aside for a while and when I take it back I want to have a clear view of how many cards I have to review.
In all those cases roughly speaking I just want a japanese deck .
as they share the same model I can merge everything easily . And through the tags I can quickly find what I'm searching.
There are others subtitlities (some fields have several uses and other cards can be created) but I've explained the core of the idea : to have something that I can use immediatly (for exams ,etc...) and in the same time evolve to be used later .
Your opinion?
Last edited by ghinzdra (2008 March 27, 12:40 am)
EDIT: Having just watched the screencasts, I recommend anyone who is interested in using Anki to watch them before you do anything!!! They answered all my questions, which tons of reading through the wiki and stuff never did (indeed the wiki is lacking, not blaming anybody, maybe now that I understand Anki I can contribute). Just go to the anki homepage and click each of the 5 big icons. They link to a screencast. Indeed Anki is very powerful and capable, but it takes some patience to learn. WATCH THE SCREENCASTS FIRST, that is where all the goods are!!!!
:::::::ORIGINAL POST::::::::
Ok, after typing a whole bunch of stuff and then erasing it, I finally understood the concept of "facts," "cards," "questions," "answers," and how that relates to "Expression," "Meaning," "Production," "Recognition," and "Model." Sorry for griping, but I DID look at both the website, the wiki, and the forums many times. Just because someone is ignorant doesn't mean that he didn't try. Remember that next time, wrightak. Jumping to conclusions isn't very fair, is it? I understand that you are defensive because I was criticizing the program, but I feel like venting my frustrations as a user is useful to elucidating the flaws of the program. Isn't that what this thread is about, guy? (The author of Anki is free to take what I say as he will, whether he, as you did, simply dismisses me as someone who didn't try to look for the help, although I said repeatedly in the original post that I did, or whether he sees that there is frustration from someone who wants to use and learn the program but has a hard time, either due to the inadequacies of the program or the documentation. Here is a suggestion, dump the wiki, it is distracting away from the real resource, the screencasts. When I went to the wiki and kept seeing empty placeholder pages, I figured, as any normal person probably would, that the information was simply not documented. Another possibility, link to the screencasts in the Wiki.)
The "Add Card" window, then, is really the window where you enter the "Fact," which then generates one or two cards (or more if you have other "Card" entries created) based off both the "Fields" and the "Cards" descriptions. Then the "Edit Deck" window shows a list of "Cards," which means if you accidently left the "Production, Recognition" thing on, it would generate two "Cards" which would each show up in the "Edit Deck" list, upon which you use the "Action on Selected... Cards... Toggle Delete" on the one you didn't want.
Here is the confusing part. If I am selecting a single card in the "Edit Deck" window, there is an option that says "Action on Selected... Fact." How can the "Edit Deck" window be both a list of cards and facts? Or will selecting the card automatically refer back to the parent "Fact"? Do you see how there is a disconnect? Can I go back and edit the original "Fact"? (EDIT: the fact information appears at the bottom no matter which of the fact's cards you select, so editing that information will change the fact for all the cards)
Now I finally see that "Production" and "Recognition" are simply arbitrary terms defined in the model properties dialog box of the particular "Fact." So I could have simply gone in and redefined what the "Question" and "Answer" portions generated by editing the string insertion parameter to change my mistakenly selected "Production" cards to more like "Recognition" (redefine Production to be the same as Recognition), and from then on, no matter whether I accidently select Production or Recognition, I will always get the same result. (EDIT: I should have selected all the cards, then clicked "Action on Selected... Fact... Add Missing Active Cards" then gone back and deleted the "Production" cards. To me several things would have been more intuitive: allowing a user to go back the the window called "Add Cards" where they could edit the fact there, selecting or deselecting which cards should appear, also, because the "fact" which is parent information of "card" appears when you click on a "card," there was a lot of confusion for me as to what the difference was)
All in all, your suggestions ultimately led me to clear up a lot that the Wiki never managed to do (maybe it was all in the screencasts, which I didn't see: I will check those out later, thanks for the tip). However, I still feel the "Edit Deck" window has some major problems with intuitiveness. What I want to do is get back to the original "Fact Input" window (called "Add Cards"), and fix my mistake there, since I know what I did wrong in that window. Maybe crippled was too strong a term, but for someone who wants to use the home version of Anki more like the online version (very simply), there is a LOT of background knowledge that must be understood first, which is a little frustrating. (EDIT: I should have picked to create a "Basic" deck instead of "Japanese," it would have saved a lot of time... also mentioned in the screencasts. My suggestion is to make "Basic" the default when creating a new deck, it's a simple fix!)
The function of the add card window and the edit deck window are very different. One isn't meant to be a version of the other.
I think this statement is not true. The "Edit Deck" window takes over the functionality of the "Add Cards" window once the cards are added, which causes quite a disconnect to a non-power user.
Last edited by danieldesu (2008 March 27, 1:54 am)
ghinzdra wrote:
Your opinion?
Why not have different models for different types of cards, and keep them all in one deck?
You do realize you can have more than one model type in a deck, right?
As I told you the same fact can have several uses . That's the beauty of it .
Let's say I have 8 differents kind of cards (I think i will reach this figure eventually) . If I create a different model for each card I'll have at least 8 models .... and in fact I'll have more than that : Let's say I want to use the same fact for recognition/production and grammar for instance . What will I do ? create 2 facts ? plain stupid (and Anki will even refuse it if you don't disable the "same data twice in the same field ban"). create a model with fields which enable recognition/production/grammar ? not really handy .... basically it would mean that I will have 8! models (of course I don't think I will use all the combinations but I think you see what I'm talking about )
It's those "in between cases" that are the most troublesome....
A new model should be used ONLY for things really different : like when you learn the kanji in the Heisig way .
It's also easier to destroy a field than to create one....If one of those fields is useless I just have to delete it . If I want to do it the other way around it won't be as easy .
What's more as I practiced A LOTTTTTTT with import and export those days I can tell you that it's really easier to have a single model .... otherwhise you have trouble with wich field is required or not , the order of the fields , etc.... Basically since the last time I talked with resolve I spent all my free time in trying different solutions .This is the best I come up with. With this model I think I settle all the problem for now and the time to come . Those cards can easily evolve AND they are ready to use right now.
Last edited by ghinzdra (2008 March 27, 3:18 am)
danieldesu wrote:
Sorry for griping, but I DID look at both the website, the wiki, and the forums many times. Just because someone is ignorant doesn't mean that he didn't try. Remember that next time, wrightak. Jumping to conclusions isn't very fair, is it?
I'm glad that everything has been cleared up for you. In my defense, exact answers to your questions were in the wiki and in the screencasts so asking you whether you had looked or not wasn't that unfair I don't think. You're original post was quite critical and could have deterred potential new users. Apologies if I offended.
I agree that the interface could be improved but you have to think about it quite carefully. A lot of people have issues with the edit deck window, including me. I recommend you bring it up on the Anki forum for discussion, new ideas can only be a good thing.
The "Edit Deck" window takes over the functionality of the "Add Cards" window once the cards are added, which causes quite a disconnect to a non-power user.
I see where you're coming from here but I still think they're pretty different. The add card window adds new cards. The edit deck window edits information already in the deck. You can't edit anything from the add card window and you can't add anything from the edit deck window.
I don't think the wiki should be dumped either. It just needs some work. If you think it's necessary, maybe you could put a note on the front page saying something like, "This wiki is still a work in progress. Watching the screencasts first is recommended for new users." Or alternatively, if you like Anki and want to help, you could contribute to the wiki. ![]()
Thank you for the response. Yes, now that I have seen everything, I agree, the answers to my questions were present in the screencasts. The biggest frustration for me was that when I clicked on "Help -> Start Here" in Anki, it led me to the Wiki where I ran into page after page of placeholders, and I never knew the screencasts existed because I followed that route of information (from the Anki program itself). Also, forums are a really hard place to find information, especially if you don't really understand the question you want to ask or search for.
It is my personal belief, take from this what you will, that a program like Anki which is tailored to a wide range of people wanting to study a wide range of topics should have defaults which are intuitive and basic. Indeed some of the most user-friendly applications out there have very powerful features, but they do not affect how a base-user will use the product. TO ME, that means eliminating terminology like "Action on Selected Cards... Toggle Delete" and instead having a "delete" button, or letting the delete key do the same thing. This also means that the default would be a simple flash card with a front and a back, like the "Basic" option that is available on Anki. And I know I said this before, but I just want to rehash now that I am more clear-headed about my frustrations, but I still think the window where you enter facts and where you edit facts should look the same. Another user-friendly thing is when dialog boxes pop up to tell you what you are about to do before you do it, with a little check box that says "Warn me about this in the future." These are critical for destructive changes, especially if there is no "Undo" feature.
There are some programs out there with phenomenal power that are meant only for people with significant training. Anybody who has tried to mess around with "Apple Shake" understands this.
Anyway, I won't spend anymore time griping, and will continue at the Anki forum and on the wiki. Thanks wrightak. No offense taken (I was just in a grouchy mood).
@danieldesu & wrightak
I have also tried Anki on a Mac and regrettably discarded it after several attempts. The program is highly customizable which most automatically assume to be a good thing but the anti-geek in me prefers a simple and intuitive interface over the limitless customization that almost requires a degree in computer studies to be fully grasped. Technology was supposed to make life simpler, remember?
Take a look at the screencasts on the web page and see if you change your mind.
I just read that Trinity will allow one to hover over the kanji and get the RTK English reading, when studying vocabulary.
Having graduated from RTK and moved to Anki for sentences, this is a feature I have wished more than once Anki had. There are times where I forget a kanji within a compund and want to refresh my memory. Sometimes I will check this site (copy and paste into the READING section) to do so, but this disturbs my Anki review. It would be much easier if I could simply hover over the kanji and get the english reading.
I wonder if anyone else would want to see this within ANKi? I would almost move my reivews to TRINITY for that feature alone, if only I could review from my Keitai....
I'd recommend bringing up feature suggestions on the Anki forum or on the feature suggestion page. However, if you highlight the kanji in question and press Ctrl 5 then it will take you to Jim Breen's page which contains the Heisig frame number. Alternatively, one of the plug-ins looks like it does exactly what you want:
http://ichi2.net/anki/wiki/Plugins

