I think that generally more context is better than less context. In those posts you linked, sometimes the information seems pretty relevant, sometimes less so, but none even approach the equivalent of "Nice weather, isn't it?" "Oh yes, the weather was nice in Kumamoto, too..."

Oh? I can just change the title to "How to do pull-ups at home" and paraphrase the post to:

"Gym memberships here are unreasonably expensive and the nearest park with a suitable bar is too far away to be practical. It'd be great if I could use a pull-up bar that hangs on a door frame, but unfortunately my door frame is designed in such a way that it cannot accommodate a pull-up bar (at least where I live; the door frame barely protrudes relative to the wall). Any suggestions?"

Yeah, you just have to write that you live in Japan. It's the "only unique place" where you can't do pull-ups. "Noone" else can give you the same information! The horror! Forgive me for the sarcasm.

It's amusing to read everyone's bragging though. Works great when you want to kill time, thank you.

Last edited by merlin.codex (2012 July 17, 5:51 pm)

I like hearing from people who live in Japan because it's a different perspective than mine... As a learner of Japanese (who, surprise, has an interest in Japan), I find such posts inherently interesting...

vix86 wrote:

And then by leaving off the "I live in japan" you also exclude the chance that someone might go "Oh, since you live in Japan, there's this company that sells this equipment that's cheap and shouldn't be prohibitively hard for you to acquire since you live in Japan that lets you do pull ups and other exercises to boot as well. Its made particularly for people with small apartments."

The title clearly suggests that the author wants to find a way to do pull-ups at his home. He says that "gym memberships here are unreasonably expensive" but doesn't seem to be concerned with the price he'll pay later.

vix86 wrote:

Does this also mean that everyone should exclude any reference to where they live? Hell, wouldn't want to brag that you live in the US/UK/Australia/EU/China/Korea/etc. Location is important, it CAN affect the advice people give you,

I don't remember seeing titles such as the previous one about US/UK/Australia/EU/China/Korea/etc, so this must be a coincidence?

Tzadeck wrote:

I think you're projecting your own personality onto others.  Bragging is boasting of your own accomplishments. People do it to make themselves feel better than others, or to attempt to get others to respect them.

You're explaining your view on "bragging" right now, and you're trying to tell me that I'm projecting my own personality onto others? In that case, you're doing it as well.

Tzadeck wrote:

And here you are, dismissively putting down and criticizing others for very minor and picky reasons.  Who's the one here that is trying to make himself feel better than others?

It's constructive criticism.

Tzadeck wrote:

The fact is, people mention living in Japan in order to give context to what they are saying.

So if I were to say that X number of Japanese share the same opinion with me, that would ultimately give my post more credibility and context?

I'm almost convinced I'm feeding a troll here but what the hey.

merlin.codex wrote:

The title clearly suggests that the author wants to find a way to do pull-ups at his home.

Right. And what kind of example did I give that would benefit from mentioning "I live in Japan."

vix86 wrote:

"Oh, since you live in Japan, there's this company that sells this equipment that's cheap and shouldn't be prohibitively hard for you to acquire since you live in Japan that lets you do pull ups and other exercises to boot as well. Its made particularly for people with small apartments."

He says that "gym memberships here are unreasonably expensive" but doesn't seem to be concerned with the price he'll pay later.

I have no idea what you are saying here. Even though its tangential to the point I was trying to make, I went back and looked at the thread and I saw nothing to suggest that he went back on his comment about "gyms being expensive," unless you are trying to imply that by him merely considering paying for pull up bar device, that he should some how be able to afford the membership.

None of that was the point of my post though. The point was that by supplying "I live <blah blah country>" people can better figure out ways to help you. If you made a post in Koohii Lounge, the place where....irrelevant posts are suppose to go, about "I'm having trouble finding a place that sells blocks of Parmesan cheese." or "Is there a good way to find people that are good at tutoring/teaching Japanese on the side?" BOTH of these are questions that will change or be almost impossible to answer without saying "Hi! I live in Osaka/Tokyo/Japan." So including this is in your post is pretty valid. Otherwise you have people telling you "Just go to walmart!" "Why not check PeraPeraWorld?" or more likely asking you "It would help if you told us where the **** you live...you know? Then we can help you find this stuff."

I don't remember seeing titles such as the previous one about US/UK/Australia/EU/China/Korea/etc, so this must be a coincidence?

Actually, of all the posts you linked, only ONE mentioned Japan in the title.

So if I were to say that X number of Japanese share the same opinion with me, that would ultimately give my post more credibility and context?

Lol what the hell does Japanese people agreeing with you and giving you credibility have to do with people asking for information and supplying that they live/have been to Japan, to help explain where the question is coming from.

In my opinion you are either a) Trolling b) a japanophile/weeabo that gets overly jealous hearing people talk about Japan or c) horrible at reading comprehension.
EDIT: d) English isn't your first language.

Last edited by vix86 (2012 July 17, 10:27 pm)

A very interesting thread.
An excellent oportunity to practice my Broken English.

Do I live in Japan?
No.
Do I know how to write kanji?
I do.
Do I write them?
Yes. In my mind's eye mostely.
Do I find it useful?
Yes, I do.
Did I write kanji right from the outset?
No - but... I didn't intend to learn Japanese then. I just wanted to know what the Japanese titles of the movies I was watching meant, more or less. I just wondered whether 己を知る is actually 'Know thyself', for instance.
Do I blame others for my failures?
No.
Do I think life is beautiful?
I do.

Tzadeck wrote:

If you think you are giving constructive cricitism, you need to work on your English writing ability.  There is a way you phrase criticism to be constructive, and a way you phrase it to be dismissive and mean.  You were doing the latter. ("Yeah, you just have to write that you live in Japan. It's the "only unique place" where you can't do pull-ups. "Noone" else can give you the same information! The horror! Forgive me for the sarcasm. It's amusing to read everyone's bragging though. Works great when you want to kill time, thank you.")

Look at @yudantaiteki's previous post and you'll see why I wrote it like that.

Tzadeck wrote:

As for your last quip here, I didn't say anything about credibility.  I said context.  Saying that whatever experience you had happened in Japan is giving 'context' by definition (and here's another definition, for fun: context - the set of circumstances or facts that surround a particular event, situation, etc.).

Ah, you're right, someone else mentioned credibility before that.

vix86 wrote:

I have no idea what you are saying here. Even though its tangential to the point I was trying to make, I went back and looked at the thread and I saw nothing to suggest that he went back on his comment about "gyms being expensive," unless you are trying to imply that by him merely considering paying for pull up bar device, that he should some how be able to afford the membership.

I meant that the author didn't mention anything about the pull-up bar's price. After all, you buy it only once.

vix86 wrote:

Actually, of all the posts you linked, only ONE mentioned Japan in the title.

Type "Japan" in "search in topic subject only". You'll see around 8 pages. There are, of course, some very good/helpful threads, but also many with irrelevant information inside them, in my opinion.

Anyway, that thread was only one of the examples. I can find many similar posts but now it seems pretty pointless. Have a good day.

back on topic, the only time I ever need to write japanese (by hand) is when:
filling in forms, (mostly stock information, like address)
noting down new vocabulary,
Writing messages for fair-well cards and weddings etc.
very occasional other random situations.

I write using computer/mobile phone computer daily.

I think most japanese people who have finished their schooling are in the same boat. When I do need to write, I rarely forget how to write a kanji (but it does happen occasionally, just like with english spelling).

[Added for context]
live in Japan, and work for a japanese company.
[/Added for context]

Hyperborea wrote:

Unless your location is Georgia as in the former Soviet Republic, then that's more of an indictment of the US education system than a recommendation about not needing to be able to write Japanese.

WordPerfect was on most computers as of 1986, and the nineties gave rise to Microsoft Word, which then gave rise to spell-checking in a wide variety of software.  I think that's probably got more to do with it than anything.  You don't need to be able to spell really.

Incidentally, I don't have spell check on my browser at work, which I'm using now--so I'm going au naturale!  Wait, how do you spell au naturale again...?

Hyperborea wrote:

Unless your location is Georgia as in the former Soviet Republic, then that's more of an indictment of the US education system than a recommendation about not needing to be able to write Japanese.

A lot of my older coworkers (who speak fondly of the days when there was only one fax machine at work) are reliant on spellcheck because of modern convenience, whereas I am not and I was raised in the transition period from typewriters to personal computers.

I'm pretty sure their skills have faded over the years as they relied more and more on it, and for some reason I like spelling things correctly so I try not to let my skills deteriorate. (Or perhaps seeing that red squiggly line underneath my words annoys me.)

tetsujin wrote:

I work for a tech company in Japan.

Stop bragging already!

Hyperborea wrote:

vileru wrote:

Rather than an indictment of the U.S. education system, I consider it a testament to the power of technology. Spell check has made a whole class of knowledge virtually obsolete. Instead of unnecessarily spending time learning correct spellings, students may devote more time to learning higher order thinking. This is something to celebrate, not bemoan.

Not learning to spell (or to do simple arithmetic) leaves an incomplete foundation that makes it harder to grasp the concepts further up the chain.

I'll put aside the slippery slope argument for how not knowing how to spell will lead to us becoming enslaved to our calculators and microwaves, and I'll instead focus on two points.

First, I don't endorse ignoring spelling (since it is not quite yet entirely obsolete, it is still useful in cases where spell check is unavailable or inconvenient). However, I don't think class-time should be wasted teaching children something so basic that they can learn on their own, and more efficiently, through extensive reading.

Second, how does not learning to spell leave an incomplete foundation? With arithmetics, I can argue that learning how to apply the rules of arithmetics is important preparation for the relatively complex rules of more advanced mathematics. I don't see how I can say the same thing for spelling without the support of very tenuous connections.

Last edited by vileru (2012 July 19, 12:08 am)

Unless it's a rare word, native speakers have no difficulty with long vs. short vowels or 促音.  じょう and じょ are as different to a Japanese person as "l" and "r" are to a native English speaker.