Advice

Index » RtK Volume 1

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Reply #1 - 2012 June 20, 8:33 pm
ableiam New member
From: Jamaica Registered: 2012-06-19 Posts: 2

Hey all im new here and to Japanese... i have been lurking the forums for a week though and started anki rtk reviews and downloaded nukemarines core 2k6k def and taekim.
i have learnt all the kana already what is ahead is kanji.... grammar reading and speaking.

now the popular census seems to do rtk first then start everything after.Simply i find this extremely boring and i am going to end up quitting... i tried doing a 100 a day.. di 100 today took 5 hours retention is about 50 % . this makes no sense cause tomorrow i have a 100 reviews and a 100 new cards plus as go up in numbers the kanji will be harder to remember especially if i do not have a good base.

so i was thinking what about lowering this number to about 20 new kanji a day  and simultaneously start learning through a core deck reading through grammar points and trying to speak. it would definitely be alot more fun with progress to show as I go along.

now what i have to ask is :
How hard is it to do these extra steps if u havent finished rtk? everyone seems like they only did this first to me...and then did the learning of readings and stuff...

also how many new cards did you do a day?

how long did it take you to finish ?- ive heard alot of people say 6-12 months but seriously am i really going to wait that long before i start learning japanese?....

Discuss please.


All comments appreciated.
ありがとう ざいます

Reply #2 - 2012 June 20, 8:42 pm
Tzadeck Member
From: Kinki Registered: 2009-02-21 Posts: 2484

I would get a textbook like Genki and go through it while doing RTK.  Core will be extremely hard to jump into without some grammar background as well as without having finished RTK.

Also, if you think 6 months is a particularly long time maybe learning a language ain't for you.

Reply #3 - 2012 June 20, 8:44 pm
Fillanzea Member
From: New York, NY Registered: 2009-10-02 Posts: 534 Website

You don't have to do RTK before you start doing anything else. You don't have to do RTK at all.

You could do RTK Lite instead of RTK, which will significantly reduce the number of kanji you have to learn.

You could do RTK while also doing an audio-focused course like Pimsleur, which will expose you to a fair amount of vocabulary and grammar stuff.

I think that it would be smarter to start with a textbook like Genki than to head right into Core 2K, though.

Last edited by Fillanzea (2012 June 20, 8:45 pm)

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Reply #4 - 2012 June 21, 12:56 am
bertoni Member
From: Mountain View, CA, USA Registered: 2009-11-08 Posts: 291

How much time do you have per day to study?  Personally, I'd get some sort of grammar book and work on that long with RTK.  That's what I did, actually. smile

I finished RTK1 in about 8 weeks, but I usually had two hours a day to practice.

Last edited by bertoni (2012 June 21, 12:57 am)

Reply #5 - 2012 June 21, 1:41 am
quark Member
From: Canada Registered: 2011-10-11 Posts: 201

I agree with Fillanzea - RTK does not have to be a prerequisite for learning Japanese. 
If you really want to get started on learning Japanese, then start learning Japanese.  Maybe working with a good textbook (Genki, Japanese for Everyone, Minna no Nihongo) or audio lessons (Pimsleur, Japanese Pod 101) is something that will work better for you.
RTK and the sentence mining method has worked really well for a lot of people, but it might not be something that works for you.  Keep experimenting and trying some new things until you find a system that works for you.

Last edited by quark (2012 June 21, 1:42 am)

Reply #6 - 2012 June 21, 2:47 am
EratiK Member
From: Paris Registered: 2010-07-15 Posts: 874

I'll add that a 50% retention rate for 100 kanji a day is pretty normal, especially in the beginning. The rate usually goes up over time. That said, I personnally disliked the concept, since the absurd amount of reviews felt too much like rote memorizing (so I stopped). I think the ideal pace lies between 25 and 50 kanji a day (I did 37), and that gives you 40 to 80 days in total, which isn't bad when you think the Japanese spend all their youth doing it (among other things). With this amount you should be able to study grammar on the side and not get bored.

Last edited by EratiK (2012 June 21, 2:52 am)

Reply #7 - 2012 June 21, 3:41 am
Shock222 Member
From: singapore Registered: 2012-02-11 Posts: 11

I usually do 18-25 cards per day, and double of that during weekends. I also go through my restudy pile on fridays and weekends, while just focusing on adding new cards and reviewing daily. I spend around 45mins to an hour per day doing RTK.

I read Tae Kim's complete Japanese guild every weekend and a little on weekdays. I can't seem to be able to easily wrap my head around the later half of the guild though.

I recently started on core 2k after I hit 1700 in RTK. Up to 1700, in total I skipped about 100 cards, mostly those that have only 1 or 2 usage when I search them up on the Kanji dictionary(google, 1st link) , and are difficult to write.

RTK is very important for core2k, but if you are in a hurry, I suggest doing RTK lite which is around 1000 or so kanjis. It should be more than enough for starting on core 2k, and maybe you could finish the rest of the kanjis as you go through core 2k, then start on core6k.

Reply #8 - 2012 June 21, 5:54 am
TwoMoreCharacters Member
From: Sweden Registered: 2010-07-10 Posts: 480

I did some very easy sentences right from the beginning, often with some kanji I'd never seen. Then after a good portion of RTK was done with (maybe around half?) I felt like I knew so many characters that there was really a lot I could learn with them.

Even though the real learning kicked off after I finished RTK (which unfortunately took a long time because I wasn't focusing on it), throughout the whole course I'd indulged in Japanese media and reviewed things along the way. It was fun and I definitely acquired a lot.

Reply #9 - 2012 June 21, 8:59 am
eslang Member
Registered: 2012-01-27 Posts: 98

ableiam wrote:

Hey all im new here and to Japanese...
Discuss please.

All comments appreciated.
ありがとう (ご)ざいます

I stumbled upon this website and I think it is really useful for beginners in the Japanese language. 
http://www.japanese-language.aiyori.org … ction.html

The picture dictionary is really awesome with Kanji, Hiragana and Romanji as well as the section on "Your first 150 Kanji" have good illustration with stroke order and sufficient explanation.  The webmaster have also written a free Ebook, listing out the most common 500 English loanwords in Japanese.  Check it out. wink

Reply #10 - 2012 June 21, 9:36 am
Marble101 Member
From: New Jersey USA Registered: 2011-09-05 Posts: 112

Genki I [a very popular Japanese textbook] uses Kana for a huge part of it (even when they start to introduce Kanji, they introduce such a small number, it doesn't matter).

So, you could make a Genki I sentences deck and every day add some cards to it. I plan to do Genki I after RTK to get some basic vocab down.

Also, you could try audio lessons. I tried Pimsleur and found it incredibly boring (they basically try to use SRS techniques during the 30 minute session) and I didn't think it would be useful. I have no clue about JapanesePod101 [except that their Word of the Day tihngs are great places to get sentences from].

Reply #11 - 2012 June 21, 11:00 am
quark Member
From: Canada Registered: 2011-10-11 Posts: 201

Marble101 wrote:

Also, you could try audio lessons. I tried Pimsleur and found it incredibly boring (they basically try to use SRS techniques during the 30 minute session) and I didn't think it would be useful. I have no clue about JapanesePod101 [except that their Word of the Day tihngs are great places to get sentences from].

Japanese Pod 101 is pretty good.  Admittedly, the beginner level lessons have a LOT of English in them, but by the time you get to lower-intermediate or the intermediate lessons, they start chatting in Japanese more than they do in English.  I like the lessons because they do story series, which can get pretty interesting. 
For example, the main story in the intermediate lessons starts off simply about university students discussing their thesis, and eventually progresses into a story where the university dean and one of the students get drunk in Okinawa and go swimming in a shark tank, and somehow that ends up becoming a pseudo-love story about a woman returning to her home town that she left years ago.  A lot better than the standard university/office setting stories.  Oh no, Michael must send a fax to Mr. Tanaka, will he be able to do it?

Reply #12 - 2012 June 21, 12:44 pm
rich_f Member
From: north carolina Registered: 2007-07-12 Posts: 1708

I'll second japanesepod101.com. You can try the premium feed for free and see if you like it. Generally, it's not hard to find all kinds of discounts for it. But I would definitely endorse "try before you buy."

I got most of my benefit from listening to the podcasts in my car, working around the house, or working out. I tried Pimsleur, and it bored me to tears. Some of it is quirky, some of it is really darn useful. The grammar explanations are pretty useful, although sometimes I wish they'd go into more depth.

Some of the original survival series phrases saved my butt when I first went over there a few years back-- especially the train, bus, taxi, and hotel-related stuff. It made getting around a lot easier.

Reply #13 - 2012 June 21, 4:52 pm
Marble101 Member
From: New Jersey USA Registered: 2011-09-05 Posts: 112

rich_f wrote:

I tried Pimsleur, and it bored me to tears.

To tears? I basically dropped out when it kept asking you "shinjuku dori wa doko desu ka?" over and over again (every 30 seconds).

If I wanted to try Japanese Pod 101, isn't it expensive? I found the $1 coupon, but 1) is it cancelable after the 1st month and 2) there are people that "downloaded everything". Doesn't that eat up a huge amount of space on your hard drive? Where did you store it all?

Reply #14 - 2012 June 21, 5:14 pm
KallistiX Member
From: California Registered: 2012-01-24 Posts: 17

The premium at jpod101.is only like $10 a month and can be shutdown at any time.  Hardly expensive compared to something like Pimsleur which has far less content.

If you sign up for the premium trial (which really is $1), you get access to a page where you can request to download everything to an iTunes podcast.  You just select all the checkboxes, give the cast a name and everything will start to be sent to your iTunes account.   You will then have everything stored on your iTunes, I'm not sure if Apple's cloud storage works with podcasts.  It's mostly mp3 audio data and pdfs, so it doesn't really take that much space by modern standards.

Note that whatever you choose, jpod101 will take every opportunity to try to sell you premium level.   Personally, I think the premium is worth a look into, they have a LOT of stuff, but the constant nagging gets really annoying.

Reply #15 - 2012 June 21, 10:03 pm
ableiam New member
From: Jamaica Registered: 2012-06-19 Posts: 2

thanks for the response guys i appreciate it . at this point in time i decided to focus more on completing the rtk(lazy kanji method does take the boredom out of it ) eventually i will while reading small bits of tae kim  and jus some other fun activities... looking forward to getting into the mix after rtk though thats when the real fun begins smile

Reply #16 - 2012 June 22, 12:41 am
jishera Member
From: California Registered: 2011-01-19 Posts: 179

I like audio because I can multitask with it and it doesn't take away from my actual studying time.

I enjoyed the Michel Thomas audio series (Beginner and "Advanced"). It helps drill basic grammar into your head, has decent explanations, and overall was rather fun to use. The two students can be a bit annoying though, especially the girl, because she messes up her answers constantly. Even better, they emphasize that you don't need to say the subject if it is already known! I don't see many beginner courses that tell you to leave out "watashi." 

I also use the Learn in Your Car series, which is very dry and boring (it's pretty much vocab and sentences thrown at you with no explanations), but is OK to use in the background while I'm working. I find that I am absorbing some useful words and sentence patterns without all that much effort. It's similar to Pimsleur, but much cheaper and with more vocab. I definitely recommend having some grammar under your belt though so the sentence patterns make sense. Doing Michel Thomas first would be helpful.

I suggest going to your library to see if they have any of these audio programs available.

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