Hi there :D

I started with Genki 1 three weeks ago and finished it sooner than I expected. Now I have to wait a bit for Genki 2 to come.
I think Genki 2 shouldn't take so much longer to finish. As it takes some time for foreign books to deliver and thus, I have to order them two weeks before, I'm already wondering which textbook would be fine after the Genki series.

I read a lot about "An Integrated Approach to Intermediate Japanese" which is sometimes considered as "Genki 3". However, many say that it is very different from Genki and I have to say that the sample pages of this book on the official homepage seemed somewhat 'cold' and 'unfriendly' to me. I don't know how to put it in other words but my first impression of this book was not that great. Must be a girl thing ;D.

On the other hand, sample pages of TOBIRA: Gateway to Advanced Japanese (上級へのとびら) had such a 'cosy' and 'likeable' design. I really liked it. But I'm not sure, if this book is too difficult after Genki. I would be very grateful if somebody already worked with one of those books and could help me. I'm especially interested in how difficult Toriba is.
And if it is too hard, are there any good alternatives besides An Integrated Approach to Intermediate Japanese?

Thanks so far for reading ^-^

(And sorry for my English, I'm not a native speaker)

IAIJ has some good grammar descriptions and examples, but you'll find better in Dictionary of Basic/Intermediate Japanese Grammar. And it's pretty damn boring. Most of the stories assume you're a 留学生 in Japan.

Personally, I'd suggest something like Japan in Mangaland or the Magajin Basic Japanese books to fill the gap until you get Genki II. Or just start tackling some simple stories or other basic native material.

Ah, thank you very much for the opinion on IAIJ :D Those exchange student thing is also very heavy in Genki and it becomes a bit boring, that's true.

Well, until Genki 2 arrives in a week, I think I'll just repeat some vocabulary. Maybe I'll look for some very, very supereasy stories to read online.
Well, honestly I don't read manga so much. I'm more interested into (light) novels and extended internet possibilities. I know, I still have to learn very much, especially vocabulary to unterstand at least a bit of it but I like learning. :)

Has anyone experience with Tobira?

I haven't started either of those two intermediate textbooks yet but I have looked into them. I actually now own both of them (from my excursion to a Japanese bookstore in midtown Manhattan). From skimming through them and comments I've read on the net, IAIJ seems to lead you towards N3 level while Tobira is leaning towards a student learning N2. Since I haven't gone through them myself deeply enough, I can not be certain of this. The writings in Tobira definitely seem more interesting than those in IAIJ. I went through Genki I & II like you are doing and then started tackling Core 6000 (via iKnow!). I should finally finish Core 6000 within another month. At that point I plan to go back to review Genki I & II since I have been neglecting the grammar side of things for 7 months. I will then take the time to go through Tae Kim's Grammar Guide which should fill in the gaps between Genki and N3 grammar. At that point I think I'm going to go with Tobira becase it just seems so much more of an interesting textbook than the other one. I also own Kanzen Master 2kyuu and the Dictionaries of Basic/Intermediate Japanese Grammar (2 separate books) for reference.

Tobira is the best intermediate textbook in the market currently, and many universities that used to use "An Integrated Approach to Intermediate Japanese" for their second year classes have switched to Tobira for that reason. It doesn't have the lighthearted feel to it that the Genki series does, but it's definitely less dull than Integrated Approach.

Unfortunately the intermediate and advanced levels don't have nearly as many textbooks available as for beginners. Advanced is especially slim pickings. I think that a new third-year level Japanese textbook will come out soon, as most on the market (like "Progressing from Intermediate to Advanced Japanese" from The Japan Times) are extremely outdated. Awhile ago I sat in on a 3rd year class at UC Berkeley that used that book, and they were discussing global warming, except the articles and graphs in the textbook were all from the early 1990s. Not exactly relevant to the modern problem, to say the least

Oh, Tobira also has the advantage of having a website with a bunch of material on it (videos for units, mp3 files for all the readings, practice sheets, etc.)

If you have passed N3, then you're already equivalent of someone who has worked through a third-year textbook like "Progressing from Intermediate to Advanced Japanese." Tobira starts at about N5 level, and once finished should put you at passing N4.

Whether or not a textbook is advantageous just depends on your learning style. Some people need the structured format of textbooks to progress, especially for grammar since otherwise they might be tempted to ignore grammar study in favor of more fun resources. The best way to learn a language is to use the language, of course, so textbooks aren't meant to be a replacement for immersion; they're more of a guideline to supplement your studies.

Finished Genki = N5
Finished Tobira = N4
Finished "Progressing from Intermediate to Advanced Japanese"=N3

I don't really know of any Japanese textbooks meant for English speakers that go near N2 or N1. Textbooks usually conclude at about N3, since at that point the student has enough grammar and vocab to learn from just immersing themselves in the language. Even "Progressing from Intermediate to Advanced Japanese" uses real Japanese articles for all its material, since at that stage it's assumed that students have enough of a Japanese background to learn from authentic material.

For grammar nothing beats the dictionaries of Japanese grammar series, but those are designed as references and not really for learning from in isolation since they're very dry and are listed alphabetically rather than in a logical learning order. Textbooks present grammar in a very systematic order, which is great.

@Aijin
I've been using these dictionaries for a while now and let me say they are incredibly enlightening. My approach was to mine everything from the start and I've already 'extracted' all the grammar + extras from tomes I and II = 1500 facts and will continue to add III progressively. I don't even know what the logical learning order is. But it would be horrible to go through a long textbook like Genki and just end up with N5.

The dictionaries are much more in-depth than textbook grammar, but the two serve different purposes. Textbooks are designed to be used by teachers in a class setting, and provide step by step instruction, whereas the dictionaries are meant to provide further clarification, and act as a resource to look up grammar. Doesn't mean you can't learn solely from the dictionary series, but if someone wants to just know the basics of a grammar point to use and understand it then a textbook explanation works well.

I don't know what you mean by it'd be horrible to end up at N5 after working through Genki. Genki just covers basic foundation material, it's not meant to take a student any further.

Aijin Wrote:If you have passed N3, then you're already equivalent of someone who has worked through a third-year textbook like "Progressing from Intermediate to Advanced Japanese." Tobira starts at about N5 level, and once finished should put you at passing N4.

For some reason, an N5 starting level seems a bit low for Tobira. It assumes that you know quite a few kanji and grammatical structures going into it, and doesn't give very many English explanations. I think it would be pretty overwhelming for a N5 student.

Aijin Wrote:I don't know what you mean by it'd be horrible to end up at N5 after working through Genki. Genki just covers basic foundation material, it's not meant to take a student any further.

Well, I was under the wrong impression that Genki were a little bit more than just N5.

delta Wrote:

Aijin Wrote:I don't know what you mean by it'd be horrible to end up at N5 after working through Genki. Genki just covers basic foundation material, it's not meant to take a student any further.

Well, I was under the wrong impression that Genki were a little bit more than just N5.

Is this referring to just Genki 1 or both Genki 1 + 2?


EDIT RawToast

Abusing mod powers to avoid a necro post and to avoid the open ended question this thread has finished on. The Genki series (and others) aren't aimed to pass the JLPT tests, but there won't be much more to study. The are usually considered to be at the following levels:
Genki 1: N5
Genki 2: N4
Integrated Approach: N3