I currently have N5 (2010), N4 (2011) and registered for the N3, this year.

I know I will eventually get the N1 in the future, does that mean my N5, N4 and N3 certificates are a waste of time and money?

Yes, so I just went straight to N1, myself.

Yes, I feel like the lower levels are just for a sense of accomplishment anyway.

warakawa Wrote:I currently have N5 (2010), N4 (2011) and registered for the N3, this year.

I know I will eventually get the N1 in the future, does that mean my N5, N4 and N3 certificates are a waste of time and money?

Well, what is the worth of N5 and N4? Certainly those two levels are completely meaningless for getting a job. At most you could convince a professor to move you up from first year to second year Japanese. But, if you are not planning to join college classes then in a straightforward way those certificates are worthless.

(Once you get to N2 and N1 they might help you a bit more since they might help you get into a university in Japan or get a job in Japan.)

On the other hand, taking N5 and N4 may have motivated you to study, and the worth of them is found in the motivation.

I just failed N1 again by four points... but actually, I'm not upset about it, because I clearly study more in the two months leading up to a JLPT test than any other time of year. So my Japanese is gonna get better because I failed, because I will study for the test again. I just can't bring myself to study that hard without the motivation

Since I have a University degree, is my high school diploma now worthless?

If you like taking tests and find them motivating, and don't mind the cost of signing up/attending, then taking the lower levels might have some value. I was motivated to study for a few months when I took N1. If focusing on the lower level exams prevents you from progressing faster, then maybe they'd be best skipped. The biggest N1 hurdle is the reading, which you overcome by regularly reading real Japanese. If you're spending hours on simple workbooks with furigana over half the words for the sake of N3, then you might just wanna learn the grammar and move on.

six8ten Wrote:Since I have a University degree, is my high school diploma now worthless?

In a sense, but if you didn't get it, you'd never have got the chance to do the university course, so it's a bit of a moot point. There's nothing stopping anyone with any academic background signing up directly for N1 whenever there's a seat available.

six8ten Wrote:Since I have a University degree, is my high school diploma now worthless?

Is this supposed to be a joke?

I feel like I'm replying a troll, but.... the big difference between high school/college degrees and JLPT is that you normally need a high school degree to get into college. With the JLPT you don't need N5 to take N4. As a previous poster said, you can just jump straight to N1. That's just what I did.

However, N2 isn't as worthless as some people think. There are some companies that will hire you with just N2, and there are some 大学/専門学校 that will accept you with just N2.

I guess I have to be the guy to point out that most foreigners working in Japan do not learn Japanese beyond the N4, N5 level. Most of their employers offer various incentives to study Japanese and passing any level of the JLPT or BJT can get you more pay.

The same concept applies to people working for most Japanese companies outside of Japan.

So in that case, JLPT N5 is most certainly not worthless for "jobs".

partner55083777 Wrote:

six8ten Wrote:Since I have a University degree, is my high school diploma now worthless?

Is this supposed to be a joke?

He's obviously using it for comparison purposes. A college degree holds much more weight than a high school diploma. I don't even list my diploma on my resume, and if I had N1, I certainly wouldn't list N5 on my resume either. This is what we call an analogy, my friend.

prink Wrote:He's obviously using it for comparison purposes. A college degree holds much more weight than a high school diploma. I don't even list my diploma on my resume, and if I had N1, I certainly wouldn't list N5 on my resume either. This is what we call an analogy, my friend.

I'm glad someone was able to recognize that.

prink Wrote:He's obviously using it for comparison purposes. A college degree holds much more weight than a high school diploma. I don't even list my diploma on my resume, and if I had N1, I certainly wouldn't list N5 on my resume either. This is what we call an analogy, my friend.

That's fine if we suppose someone already has the N5 certificate for whatever reason, which I guess applies to the OP since he's already signed up for N3, assuming he passes. If we're talking about whether or not someone should take it, otoh, the high school analogy falls apart, which I'm guessing is how partner55083777 saw it.

Javizy Wrote:That's fine if we suppose someone already has the N5 certificate for whatever reason, which I guess applies to the OP since he's already signed up for N3, assuming he passes. If we're talking about whether or not someone should take it, otoh, the high school analogy falls apart, which I'm guessing is how partner55083777 saw it.

Yes, and I also feel like it was a trolly comment.

@six8ten, I understand your desire to troll the OP (since he's been making so many questionable threads lately), but I really feel like your comment is no better. There is no explanation of the point you are trying to make, and it's pretty obvious that the JLPT is not really comparable to highschool/college degrees.


Also, no one has brought up this point yet, but some people would even say that JLPT N1 is a waste of money. The argument is generally that if you're Japanese is really good, then you don't need the N1 in order to get a job. It would be like a native English speaker taking the TOIEC.

Of course, the counter argument is that when you are applying for jobs, if you don't have at least N1, then your resume may immediately get trashed. If you have N1, then you can get your foot in the door in order to be able to show how awesome your Japanese is.

I think six8ten's comment was completely appropriate and not troll-ish at all.

Tzadeck Wrote:I think six8ten's comment was completely appropriate and not troll-ish at all.

So how can your argue that a highschool degree and college degree are comparable to different levels of the JLPT?

Having a highschool degree opens up a certain number of jobs for you, and having a college degree opens up a much wider number of jobs? While at the same time having N2 opens up a certain number of jobs, while having N1 opens up a much wider number of jobs?

That's what I originally thought, but if you go back and read OP's original post, he's asking if N5 through N2 are a waste of time/money if you have N1. This is not comparable to highschool/college degrees because you don't need N5 through N2 to be able to take N1. While on the other hand you almost certainly need a highschool degree to get into college. Your highschool degree is definitely not a waste of time/money, while it is arguable that the N5 through N2 are a waste of time/money.

Sorry if I'm mistaken but doesn't it seem natural that a higher level would make the previous levels useless? Who would backtrack in such a way? Higher levels encompass things found in the previous levels. By having N1 it's understood you have the capacity to also pass N2, N3, and so on. If anything they may be useless but could make for a nice wall decoration.

partner55083777 Wrote:

Tzadeck Wrote:I think six8ten's comment was completely appropriate and not troll-ish at all.

So how can your argue that a highschool degree and college degree are comparable to different levels of the JLPT?

It's not a perfect analogy, but I think six8ten's comment was a fine way of conveying the situation - once you've graduated from X University, you're not going to go around telling prospective employers that you graduated from Podunk High School. In that sense, a college diploma does make your high school diploma worthless.

The difference of course is that a high school diploma is (usually) a prerequisite for getting into college, but I think OP's already well aware that passing JLPT levels 1 - x is not a prerequisite for taking level x+1.

If any post in this thread reeks of trolling, I'd say it's OP, and I'd like to hear him describe a hypothetical situation where taking N1 wouldn't make N5 useless.

JimmySeal Wrote:It's not a perfect analogy, but I think six8ten's comment was a fine way of conveying the situation

Thanks, JimmySeal.

At risk of straying off-topic, most analogies can be stretched to the point of irrelevance. Obviously you (and a few others) got the point I was making; others apparently decided to truncate the last three letters of the word "analogy" and pushed it to the point where it no longer makes any sense.

And really, this has become far more commentary than a simple little analogy comment warrants. Sheesh.

partner55083777 Wrote:stuff

I understand that you think it's a bad analogy. But that doesn't mean that six8teen was trolling or trying to be rude. The appropriate response to a bad analogy is "Actually, I don't think that is a good analogy because...", rather than "Is this a joke?" or "I understand your desire to troll the OP."

You misinterpreted six8teen to be insincere, but you were wrong and should apologize, or at least recognize that. He meant it as a sincere analogy.

Also, a misinterpretation can also be an honest mistake, so I'm not trying to blame you or anything.

Tzadeck Wrote:I understand that you think it's a bad analogy. But that doesn't mean that six8teen was trolling or trying to be rude. The appropriate response to a bad analogy is "Actually, I don't think that is a good analogy because...", rather than "Is this a joke?" or "I understand your desire to troll the OP."

You misinterpreted six8teen to be insincere, but you were wrong and should apologize, or at least recognize that. He meant it as a sincere analogy.

Also, a misinterpretation can also be an honest mistake, so I'm not trying to blame you or anything.

You're completely right. While writing my original post I was probably also a little mad at the OP for making so many questionable posts, and that anger was probably somewhat transfered to my response to six8teen. I still strongly disagree that the highschool/college analogy is relevant at all to OP's post, but I was definitely out of line for accusing six8teen of trolling. I'm sorry.