I'm moving to Japan soon so I'm thinking of getting a new bike when I'm there. Until now all I've experienced were heavy mountain bikes that were really tiring to ride (especially uphill), so I'd like to get a road bike since it sounds like they'd be a lot better to get me around the city as fast as possible (up to 5km journeys, mostly on the flat).

I know that people say cheap bikes are made of heavier materials and that a good one can cost 5-10万 but I'm wary of assuming a bike is good just because it's expensive. I wonder how much better the more expensive ones are in rough percentage terms (eg. how much faster could you cycle 10km on a 10万　bike compared to a 2万　one? how much lighter is a 10万 one? what about a 5万 one?)

Is there anyone who can offer tips or recommendations?

I think the speed you can travel on the bike is more dependent on fitness then the weight of the bike. That being said, I used to own a road bike (Felt F95 Team Issue) in Tokyo so I'll call a few things to your attention.

Most people just ride those standard and ubiquitous "mama cheri" bikes, I had one of those too and though it wasn't pretty, it was very useful. It sounds dumb to mention but they have baskets, stands and built-in locks, which means its easy to carry stuff, do groceries etc and you can park it anywhere (and people do) on account of the stand and one click lock it on account of the built-in lock on the back tire.

The road bike on the other hand, has none of those features meaning for most daily tasks it is actually an inconvenience. You need to lean it against something, carry a lock, wear a backpack or something to carry things in. Also the aggressive road bike riding position makes it difficult to ride while carrying an umbrella, (the road bike won't even have fenders so if there is water anywhere its going to end up on you) and makes it inconvenient to ride really slowly in crowded areas and around tiny back alleys.

That being said, if you want to absolutely fly around on weekends, do 100km in a day, or bike for hours across town to get to Tsukiji at 4am for fresh sushi, the road bike will carry you swiftly through the mostly deserted roads at ridiculous speeds. If your ambitious you can head basically anywhere, even into the mountains.

You can cover distance on a road bike you couldn't possibly do on a regular bike. But on a daily use level, road bikes are a huge pain and a regular bike is much more convenient.

Thanks for your advice!

http://www.amazon.co.jp/RENAULT-%E3%83%A...840&sr=1-9 Would this kind of bike be ridden by men as well as women in Japan? In the west I guess this'd be referred to as a ladies' bike because of the lack of the horizontal bar, but I don't know about Japan (most of them seem shaped like this).

They seem cute and more useful but maybe a pain to commute 10km every day on... but I guess I'm not that fit and my last bike really was terrible so maybe I'm overestimating the difficulty.

Yeah, the dropped bar is common on that style of bike, its not gender specific. In Japan they don't bother with gender distinctions for the bikes, just with soft drinks, haha.

Anyway, I wouldn't order one before I got there if I were you. The bike your showing is somewhat premium because of the foreign car brand, ( you will see the odd Jaguar even Chevrolet bike in Japan). It will be easier to see what your getting into in a store with a pile of bikes all beside each other.

For a regular bike you can walk into your local Bic Camera or similar and buy it and they'll register it to you pretty quick(I think you need an ARC for the registration as they'll want a name and address).

The other option is to buy it from your local ma and pop bike shop, which there will almost certainly be one near your house. It may be a little more expensive because its a smaller place, but that shop is probably where you're going to go to put air in your tires, get your chain oiled or whatever. So building that relationship may be worth something. (They register it for you to, and may charge less then a bigger chain like 500yen vs 1000yen, but it really depends)

The other thing I'll mention is that you'll see some really plain looking bikes that cost 100,000yen because they are meant to carry children and groceries and represent the dominant form of transportation for lots of urban mothers. I'm guessing you don't need that kind of thing so something less then 20,000 should work fine.

Yeah I'm not buying now, just window shopping. I'll go to a shop when I get there and hopefully have a little test ride to help me decide what kind to get.

Quote:That being said, if you want to absolutely fly around on weekends, do 100km in a day, or bike for hours across town to get to Tsukiji at 4am for fresh sushi, the road bike will carry you swiftly through the mostly deserted roads at ridiculous speeds. If your ambitious you can head basically anywhere, even into the mountains.

You can cover distance on a road bike you couldn't possibly do on a regular bike.

Hm, I read that road bikes under 15万 aren't any good and that "6万くらいだとママチャリとあんまり変わらん". Is that true, or is that just 2ch elitism? Curious how much yours was since it sounds pretty fun. If it costs 15万 to experience that I'll definitely just get a ママチャリ.

I'm sure if you've been riding bikes forever, you may have strong opinions about which type of bike is best and how much you need to be spending. As someone who is new, I wouldn't believe the hype and just get something affordable that you like.

The bike I owned, I bought online from Cycle Yoshida, and was only around 80,000 yen, I had a 2008 Team Issue which had a few perks over the regular version and I thought it was the coolest thing ever. ( I sold my BMX to buy it, so I could go much faster, just not down stairs) It just showed up delivered to my door by the Black Cat Yamato and I road it off into the sunset.

Edit: I should mention I saw the same bike in a store in Tokyo for about 120,000 yen. Not that I think its worth that, but because price varies a lot. I mean storage for someone in Meguro is not the same as some warehouse in Gunma.

Heres a link to what is the current 2012 version of the bike, the F95 is the entry level for that brand (Felt). It has an aluminum frame, and a carbon fork and is pretty damn light, especially if you are used to regular bikes.
http://www.cycle-yoshida.com/gt/felt/roa...5_page.htm

I bought a Felt solely because I liked one of their BMX riders and because I was a fan of the Garmin-Slipstream team. That being said, the one thing I noticed in Japan coming from North America, was that you have a much bigger selection of brands. Its just as easy to get an Italian bike, or a German bike as an American one.

The general comment goes for most anything, and that is, spend enough to get something decent, but theres not point in buying super crazy stuff because as a newbie you won't know or understand why its great. Start with something normal and then if you want to change it, sell the old one and buy a new bike next year.

I'm not a pro cyclist so I can't speak about why you should only spend a billion dollars on a carbon frame, but I can tell you for the money I spent, I had some serious adventures flying around Tokyo and feeling like a champ.

This is a little off-topic, but among the very few things I hate about Japan, is the fact that people ride their bikes on the sidewalk. You always have to keep your ears peeled for that chain rattling sound getting suddenly closer and whoosh some jerk goes careening past you on a city sidewalk.
I know that streets are dangerous... but biking is an elected activity, walking is not. better to make the bikers suffer a little danger in the streets than make pedestrians suffer danger on the sidewalks.

and this...

Mayhem Wrote:... road bike riding position makes it difficult to ride while carrying an umbrella...

this is the scariest sh*t man... seeing ladies on bicycles approach you when the sidewalk is already full of people, making a buttermilk face knowing they can't break well because they've got a stupid umbrella in their hand like mary poppins. I'm always amazed I've never seen one fall. They're so prim and proper too, with perfect makeup and clothes like they're off to work retail at 0101... on a rainy day, that slippery, grimy rainy-sidewalk fall would be amazing. One of these days I'll see it I'm sure...

Actually it's a crime to carry an umbrella while cycling technically. So is riding on the sidewalk except where otherwise designated, though people still do it...

Mayhem Wrote:Heres a link to what is the current 2012 version of the bike, the F95 is the entry level for that brand (Felt). It has an aluminum frame, and a carbon fork and is pretty damn light, especially if you are used to regular bikes.
http://www.cycle-yoshida.com/gt/felt/roa...5_page.htm

That looks pretty nice! 9.4kg for that price seems like a good deal. I might go with that.

Yeah, umbrellas and bikes don't mix, that's why you can get a little umbrella holder clamp that goes on the handle bars, and with the newly freed hand you can text and eat onigiri even when its raining ! oh yeah !

Edit: The only illegal bike thing I have ever actually seen police target people for was not having a light on the bike at night, and using the phone while biking.

Since you mentioned experience with heavy mountain bikes I want to warn you, keep in mind your riding style before getting a bike.

I came from BMX & MTB bikes and got this idea in my head that my next bike is going to be a Cross (MTB+leisure hybrid) with the assumption it would be capable in every aspect of city driving. I couldn't have been more wrong and everything I thought I'd value about it came back to haunt me. Bike is light and quick on straights but it doesn't have any resilience at all and my way of city driving is going as fast as possible using any means necessary (stairs, constantly mixing sidewalk&streets, jumps etc.) to get from point A->B. With the bike I own right now I feel like I'm driving a toy that's gonna brake at any second and have to restrain myself because I don't trust it (in my first 3 weeks I had 5 flats because of snakebites). You don't want to end up with a bike like this if your driving is a bit aggressive.

If you get a mamachari (and they're damn useful), get a battery-operated headlight and get used to carrying a spare battery with you just in case. Don't get the little generator light. It's such a pain to engage/disengage. When it is engaged, it makes going uphill brutal. The only upside to it is that you don't need to worry about flat batteries, but it ruins the experience for me. It makes everything 20-30% harder to do. (And when you're coming home from the station after being out all day, you don't always have that extra 20-30%.)

Considering everything, I'm thinking of just going with a light crossbike and maybe stick a basket on it, since they seem to be more versatile/less of a target for thieves than a road bike and faster/less effort to ride than a ママチャリ..

Something like these (12~13kg)
http://www.cycle-yoshida.com/araya/ralei...b_page.htm
http://www.cycle-yoshida.com/job_inter/g...a_page.htm

But I'll think about it for a month and a bit before I buy.

Sounds like a reasonable compromise, but you could just buy two bikes ! haha

I might just ask to test ride a road bike first to experience it without necessarily intending to buy it.

I guess road bikes really are for long, uninterrupted cycling, not navigating only 3 miles of traffic...

I had a beater of a mamachari when I was in Okazaki, but even that beats the hell out of walking.

Whatever you get, I totally agree on the basket. Saves a ton of hassle/headaches when shopping.

Or 2 bikes, one for work, one for play... the 普通 and the 特急... a cheap mamachari isn't so bad if it's just for short trips for groceries. Saves wear and tear on the nicer bike. And if one gets stolen, you have the other as backup.

An off-topic question, I've always been hearing about the safety in Japan, like if you forget your wallet somewhere you'll find it when you return for it. Do people exaggerate, or are you being too cautious?

Road cyclist here.

First of all, your speed comes from your legs. The difference in speed from a $500 road bike to a $5000 one isn't noticeable (it might be 0.2 mph faster, it might not). What you do notice is reliability. I have a racing/summer bike and a cheap bike for the winter and the only noticeable thing is the reliability on gearing and stuff like that you wouldn't even notice.

You say you want a road bike because your mountain bikes are tiring uphill. I'd just like to point out that it's easier for a beginner to climb on a mountain bike than on a road bike. The gearing on a road bike is way heavier than on a mountain bike. If you find you get too tired because you don't have lower gears, you might not even be able to get up them on a road bike. If you do get one, get one with a compact chainset.

I'd also like to point out that road bikes aren't really made for 5km commutes in the middle of traffic, but...

undead_saif Wrote:An off-topic question, I've always been hearing about the safety in Japan, like if you forget your wallet somewhere you'll find it when you return for it. Do people exaggerate, or are you being too cautious?

Thieves are everywhere so best to be cautious. I'd hope that most Westerners would hand a lost wallet or bag in too (I wouldn't want to be friends with anyone that didn't)... but maybe less would than in Japan.

Actually I'm getting a little apprehensive about spending much on a bike now.. I can't keep it indoors so it would just be asking to be stolen.

Quote:You say you want a road bike because your mountain bikes are tiring uphill. I'd just like to point out that it's easier for a beginner to climb on a mountain bike than on a road bike.

To be fair it's 17kg and for the last year the gear system has been held together with electrical wire so it's been a single speed bike lately... I'm only 56kg myself so I imagine that an ~8kg reduction in weight would make a big difference too, as well as the lighter wheels.

But I imagine it'd definitely get stolen and I know I just want it for the child in me instead of out of practicality, so I better go with something like the last two I linked as cheaply as possible.

I wouldn't be overly concerned about having a bike stolen in Japan.

For a few reasons, firstly, the bikes you are looking at may be nice, but they aren't exactly worth an really large sum of money. I mean if it was made of gold (or 100% carbon fibre) you'd be rightly concerned, but bikes are everywhere so no need to go overboard.

Secondly, majority of bicycle crime is about crimes of convenience. I mean if you leave it unlocked at a station over night, some kids out for fun or some drunk might take it, just to go for a ride (or get home), and ditch it after they get to wherever they wanted to go.

Thirdly, Japan has a bicycle registration system. So bikes are registered to an owner and a "permanent" sticker is put on them. There are occasional stops by police to make sure the owner matches the bike. More importantly, if someone is buying a used bike, they usually want the registration paper, because without it the inference is that it is stolen, in which case it isn't worth that much. I've heard comical stories from friends who were riding bikes from their neighbours who got it from whoever and long story short had to spend an uncomfortable time explaining to police where the bike came from.

In short, being reasonably cautious makes sense, but no need to be overly paranoid.

Buy a bike you like and ride it all over the place.

To bring closure to this thread, I ended up getting this (in black) last month for 30,000円　at Yodobashi (reduced from over 4man). It weighs 11.8kg and is very quick and easy to ride around town, so I'd definitely recommend it.

http://www.amazon.co.jp/HEAD%EF%BC%88%E3...860&sr=1-6

I'm using a wire lock and a D lock just to be safe

Road bikes are not practical for cycling normal distances as transportation.

1) They have skinny tires. This allows them to go faster, but they offer virtually no grip in the rain and no shock absorption. They also get flats VERY easily. Cross bikes also have somewhat thin tires, so this also applies to those to a lesser extent.
2) They don't have shocks, compounding the rough ride from #1.
3) You don't ride on the road in Japan unless you enjoy being killed. Sidewalks are rather rough in general and the transition between sidewalk and road is also significant. This makes #1 and #2 even worse.
4) Curved handles will kill your back and arms.
5) They cost significantly more than cross bikes, road bikes or MTB of similar quality.

Get a cross-bike (they cross MTB and road bike, not MTB and leisure) if you want something fast but more practical, a mountain bike if you want a more comfortable but still somewhat fast ride, or a mama-chari if you want maximum convenience (baskets, nice fenders, chain cover) but don't care about comfort, speed (most don't even have gears) or looks. There is no major difference in price between cross, MTB or mama-chari if you get something half decent.

Mountain bikes are actually the fastest for urban cycling due to the frequent road->sidewalk->road transitions and times you'll have to hop on/off a curb due to pedestrian congestion (fat tires+suspension makes this a lot gentler). The only reason not to get one is if you really need fenders and a basket, in which case you should go cross-bike.

In any case, any bicycle less than 3man will be an utter piece of crap that will have endless problems. Good stuff starts around 5man, fancy stuff around 12man. Do not buy one from a department store, a bike store in a shopping mall (like Aeon), your neighborhood friendly bike shop run by an old man, Don Quixote, or general chain like Asahi. Those all deal primarily in folding bikes, mamachari, or very low end MTB with names licensed from western car brands like HUMMER. Go to a proper sports store (eg. Sports Depot) or better yet, a higher-end bike shop focusing on cycling as a sport/hobby. If initial set-up of the bike is poor, complain & get it fixed immediately as you'll end up damaging the bike by riding it for too long that way (my current bike was extremely poorly setup by Sports Authority, avoid them too).

Unless you are short for a westerner, you will likely have trouble finding a bike your size. Do not settle unless you want to kill your knees and have to spend way more energy due to poor cycling posture. Ordering a bike in (取り寄せ) should not cost extra at any reputable shop.

Actually, legally you are not allowed to ride on the sidewalks in most areas and are supposed to ride on the roads (certain areas permit it and are marked as such). That being said, most people are unaware of this and believe you are supposed to ride on the sidewalks. I wasn't aware of it until a few months back when there was a push to create designated bike routes in parts of Tokyo and a bit of coverage about it on TV.

And I agree that riding on the street is akin to a death wish, at least most of the streets around the places I've lived.

Most people are aware I think, but riding on the street is obviously stupid. Not even bike police ride on the road. The only people I EVER see on the road are guys in spandex and helmets on expensive road bikes. Part of the reason is undoubtedly because road bikes are extremely uncomfortable on uneven surfaces like sidewalks and the sidewalk transitions can actually easily destroy the rims. The other half is probably because they want to be seen as hardcore, thus the racing suits despite them just scooting around town.

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