Dear Laura,

I am sorry to hear about your copy of the book. We have never had this problem before with the binding or the printing of this title. Recently Amazon has been selling copies of our different titles in poor condition. We are unsure why this is happening. Please alert Amazon about the problem as ask them to send a replacement copy that is in excellent condition. I am sorry for any inconveniences. If you have any questions or further concerns please let us know.

Regards

University of Hawaii Press
Business Office
2840 Kolowalu St.
Honolulu, Hawaii 96822

Phone: 808-956-8255 or 888-847-7377
Fax: 808-988-6052 or 800-650-7811
Website: http://www.uhpress.hawaii.edu

Hmmm...so amazon has been getting high quality books and maliciously tampering with the bindings. Damn them. Damn them all to hell! :O

My RTK1 paperback (is there a hardback?) binding's collapsed in a couple of places, but It got some damn heavy use. Was yours defected at birth?

The book looked lovely when it arrived and the binding didn't dissolve for a month or two. I'd love to say the fault was Amazon rather than a university press which prints books on Okinawan language and Asian biblical hermeneutics and other high profit topics. But....

I bought mine from Blackwell's in the UK and the binding is weak, so I doubt their claim of Amazon selling cheap copies.

I sent the U of Hawaii e-mail to Amazon mainly just to see what the reply would be. Amazon would give me an 80% refund (not 100% because it's over 30 days) if I sent them the book. I wrote my stories and word lists in my book, so I'm not sending it back. I really just want U of H to spend 25 cents more and produce something that doesn't fall apart on the small minority of purchasers (5% maybe) who actually use RTK1 rather than buy it, do 100 Kanji, and put it on the shelf. Although if Fabrice keeps up the good work, the user numbers will keep increasing.

At the risk of adding another "me too" post... I started by using a downloaded copy of the 4th edition while waiting for the fifth edition to be printed. I got a copy of the 5th edition as soon as it hit the shelves, but the spine broke after only one week in use - so I'm back using my pdf of the 4th edition again and the fifth edition sits safely on the shelf. Books with a bit of wear are nice - they soften and gain a bit of character - but books with pages falling out is just annoying.

I got mine from a local book shop in Scotland so it's not Amazon, the spine is really bad now, I'm considering trying to find a 4th Edition online and ordering that, although I feel scammed paying for the same book twice.

RTK sits on my bookshelf as one of my most treasured books so I'd love to actually have a copy that is reasonably printed, I'd kill for a hardback version.

Perhaps we could get Heisig himself to pay some attention to the matter, someone email him alerting him to the presence of this thread, I'm too scared having bothered him once before

Perhaps an online petition is in order? The problem clearly lies with UP Hawaii, and if they are serious about printing language texts of this type, that get a LOT of rough use, then they need to provide a better quality product. I think they're bringing out copies of RTK2 & maybe 3, so I would hope that they would get better binding for those editions.

The response about Amazon is clearly a dodge; it's hard to vote with your pocketbook when they're the only publisher, and an online petition could send a strong message (for a low-selling book of this type, a thousand signatures would be QUITE an incentive to change). I'd sign, because I will pick upk RTK3 when it's out again.

(JLTP in two days! What am I doing here?)

billyclyde Wrote:The response about Amazon is clearly a dodge; it's hard to vote with your pocketbook when they're the only publisher, and an online petition could send a strong message (for a low-selling book of this type, a thousand signatures would be QUITE an incentive to change). I'd sign, because I will pick upk RTK3 when it's out again.

UHP has a monopoly on James Heisig's book, but not on component analysis. While they are not in sync with this site, "Kanji ABC," by Foerster and Tamura and published by Tuttle, and "2001 Kanji," by the late Fr. Joseph De Roo and published by Bonjinsha, are component analysis books. I saw them at Bonjinsha's shop in Tokyo and both seemed to have sturdy binding. Neither book is merely a knock-off of Heisig but a well thought-out alternative. "Kanji ABC" is particularly good because it gives one the ability to learn all the radicals and then learn more complex kanji in whatever order is convenient (eg. in the order presented by whatever textbook one is using).

That said, I'm sticking with my trusty RTK1, 4th ed!

Good luck on the JLPT, Billyclyde!

The cover is starting to warp and peel, I take good care of my books. This really upsets me. I'm now convinced it's not carrying it in my bag that is damaging the book its just really poorly made, I carry the book below it (Godel Escher Bach) all the time for one of my classes and thats held up fine and I've had it for longer than RTK.

On the idea of an online petition, I doubt it would make a difference they're not going to change their printing methods for such a niche book. I'll email UH press directing them to this thread, see what they say, will update when I get a reply.

meolox, those are my 2 favourite books I've read in the past year (both initially published in late '70s, '77 + '79 iirc) Have you read I am a strange loop by Hofstadter?
My RTK V5 is looking a fair bit worse for wear than yours, with tape holding some sections together. It was bought in Sept. All in all I'm still happy with it though. For a paperback that gets such heavy use we can hardly expect the world.

Received RTK1 4th edition ordered 2 days ago. It was printed in 2005. Quality difference: Night and Day. The original price was $42 dollars, 10 dollars more than the 5th edition and herein may lie the problem. Since RTK1 is "The Gulag Archipelago" of kanji books, i.e. widely bought but rarely opened, it was probably a reasonable economic decision to try a mass market approach. So few people actually use the book, the danger that a significant number of people would complain was small. If the publishers had printed the worlds obscenities in "The Gulag Archipelago" any place after page 50 no one would have noticed.

One thing, then JLPT cramming (thanks for the wish, PParisi!)-- meolox, do email them, but I would point out that as a university press, all their books are niche. I suspect that, given the increasing popularity of Japanese studies in the US and elsewhere, and their positioning is to get this in uni. libraries and adopted as textbooks, this book will be one of their better-selling titles.

Also, as a uni. press, they're smaller, and therefore more likely to listen to this kind of consumer feedback (a friend works at a comparably-sized UP, and their whole operation, including warehousing, is in a mid-sized residential home).

And Laura, the fourth edition is just a nice _book_, isn't it? Sturdy, and with French flaps. Maybe your printer friend will respect its binding!

billyclyde, yes the 4th edition is nice, feels good in your hands, easy on the eyes.
I agree that UH Press would probably listen to complaints and that RTK 1 could be one of their better sellers. I have their, "Kodomo no Tame ni," which I believe is one of their "hot books." You will do well on the JLPT.

PParisi, I've got both De Roo (my favorite, but it's really a dictionary) and Kanji ABC which I think presents the kanji if a far more logical and useful order than Heisig. I'm may tranfer over while retaining my current Heisig keywords and stories. The main advantage of RTK 1 in my mind is this site.

Got a response:

I am sorry to hear that your copy is in its poor state. In response
to the recent complaints we've been receiving we will be contacting
our production manager to inspect and fix the printing problem. We
are hoping that this is an isolated problem and that only a certain
batch was printed poorly. We can offer you a no charge replacement
copy, hopefully it is not one of the effected batch, if you wish. If
so please provide us with a ship to address. Also, if possible, would
you be willing to send us your defective copy so we can take a look
at it? We will reimburse you for the return shipping costs. I assure
you we are working quickly to pinpoint and solve the current problem.

Well hopefully, the replacement I get will not be in such a state else I'll have to source myself a fourth edition which is looking to be difficult, lets not get a rush of people begging for a replacement from them now

@Coupon: I've heard of I am a strange loop but to be honest I'm still wrapping my head around GEB it's an amazing book but one I understand very little of, I was assigned to read the sections of the book regarding Artificial Intelligence and the MU-Puzzle, but have been reading other parts at my own discretion. Also It's printed very well and looks beautiful and was very cheap!

Good!. I still recommend getting the 4th edition if you can. I think most people seeing them side by side would be willing to pay more for the 4th edition. The 4th edition uses higher quality paper and has a much nicer quality cover. The font size is slightly larger in the 4th edition which makes it easy to see the kanji components at a glance and easier to use the index. It's 524 pages compared to the 5th edition's 460, but it's essentially the same overall size, because of the tighter binding on the 4th edition.

At every point in the costing process for RTK 1, someone made the decision to go with the cheapest option. There really is no mystery about what's wrong with this book, but a little more attention to the binding should prevent them from falling apart altogether. The cover on your 5th edition will still curl and the edges of the pages will still fray and curl.

I really hope RTK2+3 when the are re-printed in January come out fine, although I have little faith they will.