Hey guys/gals,

I've been trying to set up a regular "curriculum" or routine to study japanese after finishing RTK. I remember reading in a timeboxing thread that quality study was better than quantity of study. that musical virtuoso's practiced the same number of hours as a non-virtuoso...the difference was in the quality of study.. anyway..so what I've been doing is doing a bit of iknow.jp, a bit of grammar (japanese the manga way), anki jlpt N5 vocab, and RevTK kanji review everyday. Am I spreading my attention too thin? Should I just focus on one area of study like just focusing on getting through japanese the manga way and then focus on vocabulary entirely? I sort of find studying many resources at the same time slightly overwhelming in information but not to the point where I can't process it. However that's probably just cuz i'm diving into japanese with no prior knowledge and it's just a sea of information, how should i organize my studies?

so I'm wondering what you guys find effective and most efficient in your study and what you've found effective in terms of organizing your studies. Now mind you I don't have time to spend 8 hours studying, maybe more like.. 3-4 hours a day. Do you guys :

A) stick with one learning resource for vocab and grammar?
B) focus only on vocab building or only on grammar or switch it up doing only one or the other a day?
C) you do it the way I do it, with multiple learning resources
D) All of the above
E) None of the above

Thanks.

I like sticking to one source for vocab/grammar because I don't like relearning the same stuff from a different book, though once you get into advanced (which means comparatively rare) grammar and vocab you should naturally do both.

What I did...
-RTK + 2 semesters of Japanese class at community college
-KO2001 using DJG series as reference
-JLPT N2 vocab + JLPT 2 grammar (because I bought an old book, lol)

And now...
-JLPT N1 grammar + listening + reading

I also have heavy doses of Japanese music, TV, books, and articles online which I will occasionally grab sentences from if I can reasonably understand it. I liked what Fillanzea said in that studying is what "primes" you for real Japanese, so keep them in balance. If you spend too much time with textbooks and studying it's boring, but if you spend too much time with native material and not really understand it, it will also be boring.

in hindsight did you find that taking japanese class was something that speed boosted your learning of the language? are the classes what got you to jlpt N2?... did you skip N5-3?

In the beginning, did you find that your main source of study was from textbooks so that you could function to some degree with native speakers? or did you do it simultaneously with no prior knowledge?

I took the class as a first step. In the middle of class I started to wonder if this was really the best way, then I did internet searches for independent study programs.

What got me to N2 was studying the grammar and vocab.
N5 is technically Genki 1 which was what was covered in those two semesters. I guess I skipped N4. N3 might have been covered with my old JLPT 2 grammar. I'm not sure. And although I passed N2 I didn't have a great degree of confidence while taking the test.

In the beginning my output was atrocious. I took a trip to Japan in the middle of the second semester of studying and I was completely and utterly lost. A year later, I was better, but still wouldn't consider myself adequate. 2 years later (which would be last Christmas, right after I took N2), I was barely adequate. Conversationally, I'm just bad, because I don't practice. It's worth noting that during my Christmas trip I met a friend and could barely have a workable conversation with her the first time I met her, but the second time I met her a week later I was able to because I was improving steadily.

If you meant to say "native material" and not "native speakers", I eased myself in. I used English-subbed anime and dramas. I read some manga in Japanese when I had seen the English-subbed anime version. I then switched to Japanese-subbed dramas and variety shows eventually.

I just add example sentences into my anki deck, thus I use it as a tool to remember what I learned. I tried Core, but it was too boring -- and boring = no good -- so I decided to use anki as tool to remember the stuff I learn instead of using it as some sort of teacher.

And if you like Skyrim, you can just change it into スカイリム in Steam

@stian - i find doing pure anki kinda dull esp. making my own deck lol. you don't use a grammar text?

kainzero Wrote:I took the class as a first step. In the middle of class I started to wonder if this was really the best way, then I did internet searches for independent study programs.

2 years later (which would be last Christmas, right after I took N2), I was barely adequate. Conversationally, I'm just bad, because I don't practice. It's worth noting that during my Christmas trip I met a friend and could barely have a workable conversation with her the first time I met her, but the second time I met her a week later I was able to because I was improving steadily.

If you meant to say "native material" and not "native speakers", I eased myself in. I used English-subbed anime and dramas. I read some manga in Japanese when I had seen the English-subbed anime version. I then switched to Japanese-subbed dramas and variety shows eventually.

So you passed N2 but you had difficulty in carrying out a conversation still?? would you recommend taking classes or is self study the better way to go?

I'm going through the process just like you. While I was doing RTK, I studied from Genki I & II textbooks but I haven't memorized everything. I'm using iKnow! as well. I'm finding that it is very time consuming. I've pretty muched temporarily dropped grammar study in order to plow through it to the end. I'm at 3,700 words now. The first 2,000 words took me about abt. 3 months but it seems that each 1,000 thereafter is only taking me a month. I'm going to concentrate on getting trhough the remaining 2000 in 2 months. After I finish, I will go back and review Genki. From what I understand both Genki textbooks only constitute about N4 grammar so I will then go on to study Tae Kim's grammar guide. I have Japanese the Manga Way also so I will probably look at that after Tae Kim. After that? Probably an intermediate textbook, a N2 grammar workbook such as Kanzen Master and the rest of Core 10000. Hopefully I'll get that far!

@ potbellypig
iknow is time consuming. I write down the sentences to practice writing the kanji of words as i find that sticks better than just shadowing the speaker. do you do that also?

I have been doing Iknow off and on, i somewhat remember the words but I should probably do it more regularly. do you find that you actually remember the 2000 words you covered in iknow? I'm only at step 1 of core1000.

ok so it seems to make sense to just focus on one thing. I find that going through japanese the manga way, it's helped me to understand sentences in iknow better. I might just read through the whole thing from start to finish and then focus on core. Doing everything each day does take a lot of time. How do you go through i know? do you write things down or just go through as it prompts you?

i keep hearing about core 10000, where is that? that's not part of iknow is it?

がんばりましょう！

So, for everyone I talked to that has gotten to a high level of Japanese (up and above N1), the running commonality is just time spent with Japanese. Everyone may have a completely different study method, but there is one commonality. Everyone spent a lot of time studying/using/having fun with Japanese.

So I would say just keep going. Find materials you like to use. Experiment with different ways of studying. Find what you can do without getting burnt out. Switch things up once in a while. Just keep going. It's a long road ahead, but it's a fun journey.

Good luck.

Miyumera Wrote:@ potbellypig
iknow is time consuming. I write down the sentences to practice writing the kanji of words as i find that sticks better than just shadowing the speaker. do you do that also?

I have been doing Iknow off and on, i somewhat remember the words but I should probably do it more regularly. do you find that you actually remember the 2000 words you covered in iknow? I'm only at step 1 of core1000.

I don't write down the entire sentence, but I write down the word when reviewing. Most people don't do this whether they use Anki or iKnow! but I find it the best way to remember the word and to review writing the kanji. For either iKnow! or Anki, I usually do some studying away from the deck/site. If the data is in Anki you can export it to a spreadsheet and do some studying. For iKnow!, just coincidently, the vocabulary has just been posted in iKnow! order in a spreadsheet on this forum. Take a look at the first post of that "Printable Core 2000 Vocabulary" thread.

Core 10,000 is the full list of vocabulary words based on frequency that were produced by I believe Jack Halpern. iKnow! only covers the first 6,000. The Japanese Sensei app for iOS has the full 10,000. You can dig around and find an Anki deck based on it as well. The audio is not as good as on iKnow! because the sentences are spoken very slowly.

Note that I'm not advocating that you study only one thing (vocabulary, grammar, etc.) at a time. Most people here probably do multitask. I'm not so good at multitasking and I kinda got locked in with iKnow! trying to finish it. While doing RTK, I did heavy multitasking with grammar. Do what's best for you.

PotbellyPig Wrote:The Japanese Sensei app for iOS has the full 10,000. You can dig around and find an Anki deck based on it as well. The audio is not as good as on iKnow! because the sentences are spoken very slowly.

Note that I'm not advocating that you study only one thing (vocabulary, grammar, etc.) at a time. Most people here probably do multitask. I'm not so good at multitasking and I kinda got locked in with iKnow! trying to finish it. While doing RTK, I did heavy multitasking with grammar. Do what's best for you.

ok cool. by ios i guess you mean iphone?

Well, I think I was starting to think about focusing in on studying one area as well. I think too many resources might be spreading my attention too thin. btw japanese the manga way is a really good book. I think it made japanese much clearer, esp. by being straight and to point with practical information than any other book I've got.
Thanks for the input.

Miyumera Wrote:So you passed N2 but you had difficulty in carrying out a conversation still?? would you recommend taking classes or is self study the better way to go?

I had difficulty because I didn't really practice it. I mostly focus on reading and watching TV. Keep in mind I also work full-time and only manage 1 hour a day if that,though this doesn't include enjoying native material.

I recommend self study if you can manage it because you can pace yourself properly. I usually recommend a class to people who have zero experience with Japan because it gives a broad overview, but unless you can't pace yourself independently then generally it's slower than self-study.

oh.. i'm surprised. I guess JLPT doesn't test conversational ability..
ok i guess I will keep my few hundred dollars in my pocket rather than taking a course.