(2016-02-01, 8:45 am)Elliot Wrote: If I may elaborate, on only a couple of your topics, mentioned above, in the hope that it may prove valuable advice to those considering a career in Japan, university is "the only" serious option for anyone wanting to teach in Japan, as a career.

If you failed to follow the a traditional route to teaching and didn't get an actual teaching certification from your home country, then yes, this is probably your only path to a career in teaching. If you have a teaching certificate though and some years of experience teaching outside Japan, there are a handful of international schools that will employ you as a real teacher and you can find a certain amount of career progression.

Beyond that, the best advice for nearly everyone still remains, don't aim to be a teacher in Japan.

[s0apgun]

By all means don't aim to be a teacher in Japan, but if you want to come over here for a year then its a decent option to get a chance to experience Japan.

From 1993-95 I worked as a JET ALT and made 30万円/month. At the time, living in the countryside, I easily lived off half of my salary. Twenty three years later, it boggles my mind that jobs are actually paying LESS than they did in 1993 when I first went to Japan! WTF?

Around the same time in the early '90s, one of my brothers worked at eikaiwas in Nagano and Aichi Prefectures for 27万円/month. Recently, my brother finally decided to go back to school to get proper teacher certification, and now he's teaching at a school in Norway where his first year starting pay was ~US$80K/year. It may be a little less now that the US$ is stronger relative to the Norwegian Krone.

Maybe because of deflation in Japan, making 30万円/month as an ALT on the JET Program is still not a bad deal as a first job out of college, but it's hard for me to imagine anyone accepting LESS than that. It sounds like there are tons of foreigners in Japan already who are all competing against each other for scarce English teaching jobs. As far as I'm concerned, that's not a position I would ever want to put myself or encourage anyone else to put himself into.

The world's a big place. If you need to make money, it sounds like Japan's not where you want to be right now. Japan has a lot to offer, but if I were thinking of going there to work, I would think twice about my plan. Maybe working in another country where your skill set is more in demand, saving up money, and then going to Japan as a full-time student or tourist would be a better route...

Just my 2 cents.

By the way, Debito just did an article on this:

http://www.debito.org/?p=13814

(2012-09-01, 4:10 pm)ryuudou Wrote: When it comes to this subject don't listen to what you read online.

http://japaneselevelup.com/2011/02/20/te...-about-it/

Still extremely relevant.

(2012-09-04, 12:36 am)oyajijeff Wrote: I've been living in and teaching English in Japan for the past 18 years. I have advanced degrees in English and Linguistics. So...I'm qualified to say what I'm about to say even though it will surely offend some here.

If you want to just live and teach here, at any level, for 2-5 years, then go for it and enjoy it. However, to teach English in Japan as a career would be the biggest mistake of your life.

With very few exceptions, you will not (and will never) be considered a "real" teacher in this country. I've been in the public high school system for the past ten years and my salary is exactly the same, no benefits of any kind, and I'm not even allowed to teach a class alone.

I have three teacher friends who are NETs and while they can teach classes alone, their salaries are the same as teachers who held their positions.........25 years ago. They also get no benefits and are considered part time teachers despite working 50 to 60 hours a week.

I have a friend who has lived and taught English in Japan at the university level for 25 years. His salary has dropped over 45% and he can no longer find full time employment, so he must put together several part time gigs from several universities to survive.

It's a boring and demoralizing job.

So why am I still here? Not knowing what I know now (teaching English in Japan sucks) I moved to Japan, got married to a Japanese, had kids, and before I knew it, I had to stay. The only other choice I had was to leave them behind, so I stayed. But now that they are older and out of school or almost out, I'm leaving this place and I can't wait.

Teaching English in Japan Sucks!

You sound like a long timer from Hawaii I met at a party at an eikaiwa in Tokyo. Well experienced in putting on the genki for the students. After a few drinks he asked me if I was enjoying my life there. I said no. And he pretty much admitted that he felt the same but was married and couldn't get out. He used to dream of getting a one way plane ticket and never coming back...

Incidentally I never ALTed, but I know boring and demoralizing doesn't describe only ALTing in Japan...

Quote:The world's a big place. If you need to make money, it sounds like Japan's not where you want to be right now. Japan has a lot to offer, but if I were thinking of going there to work, I would think twice about my plan. Maybe working in another country where your skill set is more in demand, saving up money, and then going to Japan as a full-time student or tourist would be a better route...

Pretty much. I worked for 13 months as an in-house translator/interpreter for an animation company in Tokyo. I like to tell people that my pay was less than what I used to make washing dishes here in Australia. A comparison of per-capita GDP matches up with my impression. Japan is currently at around 29k, Australia 61k. Then again, money isn't everything. At least in Japan people know how to enjoy life, relax and have a good time. They are also really welcoming and friendly towards non-Japanese... wait a sec.

This is a bit off topik, but only a bit. I would like to go to Japan but definitely not to teach, rather as a software developer. Definitely not for long term 6 months, a year maybe. This in, let's say the next 3-5 years. Do you guys think it could work, meaning, that the supply/demand will be good in my favour?

(2016-02-23, 9:11 am)Raschaverak Wrote: This is a bit off topik, but only a bit. I would like to go to Japan but definitely not to teach, rather as a software developer. Definitely not for long term 6 months, a year maybe. This in, let's say the next 3-5 years. Do you guys think it could work, meaning, that the supply/demand will be good in my favour?

How's your Japanese?

(2016-02-23, 12:30 pm)Kamoshika Wrote:

(2016-02-23, 9:11 am)Raschaverak Wrote: This is a bit off topik, but only a bit. I would like to go to Japan but definitely not to teach, rather as a software developer. Definitely not for long term 6 months, a year maybe. This in, let's say the next 3-5 years. Do you guys think it could work, meaning, that the supply/demand will be good in my favour?

How's your Japanese?

Not good enough. I'm planning on reaching N2 in the next 3 years. Now, around N4, I guess....

(2016-02-23, 9:11 am)Raschaverak Wrote: This is a bit off topik, but only a bit. I would like to go to Japan but definitely not to teach, rather as a software developer. Definitely not for long term 6 months, a year maybe. This in, let's say the next 3-5 years. Do you guys think it could work, meaning, that the supply/demand will be good in my favour?

What you are looking for would be pretty hard. If you are from a Common wealth country then it might be possible since you should probably have access to a working holiday visa. If you aren't from a common wealth country/can't get a working holiday visa, then I think you will have trouble. I can't think in recent years where I've seen that many contract based employment positions in Japan (in IT), most of the positions are full time. Obviously you can lie in an interview and say you plan to stick around for the foreseeable future but I guess that depends on how much your conscience can take.

The problem, if you haven't figured it out, is the visa. Getting a visa for someone requires a little bit of work and usually requires paying a visa lawyer in Japan to help with the process. Most businesses will expect you to probably stick around for at least 2-3 years, hence most jobs are full time, expected long term employment positions (正社員); not 3-8 month contracts.

That aside. If you have 5-10 years of professional experience in software development, then you shouldn't have any trouble getting a software dev job in Japan. In fact, at that level of experience, you could probably get away with N3 level Japanese (Daily conversation level). The way I see it, work expertise and Japanese skill are inversely proportional to a certain extent. So you could find a job in these situations: little expertise/junior level + fluent Japanese, mid career + business level, senior/expert + conversational to almost no Japanese. Keep in mind that there are still going to be a lot of places that want someone senior that is also at a business level, the point I'm making is that jobs do exist at these different points, how many there are is the big thing.

You'll also want to job hunt inside Japan. Take a 2-3 week 'vacation' there and contact some recruiters before going so you can have interviews lined up when you get there. If you have decent experience, you'll probably have 2-3 offers before you leave Japan.

Quote:RaschaverakThis is a bit off topik, but only a bit. I would like to go to Japan but definitely not to teach, rather as a software developer. Definitely not for long term 6 months, a year maybe. This in, let's say the next 3-5 years. Do you guys think it could work, meaning, that the supply/demand will be good in my favour?

unless some massive social transformation occurs, the supply/demand for foreigners will never be in favor of foreigners. its the same in any country really. why would they hire someone else to do the job when their own people can do it just as well (in their eyes. also not including things like hiring cheap foreign labor.).

also i don't see any super stand-out incentives for working tech in japan vs any other country. you won't be treated or paid as well.

i know life is not all about the money but for me, its really hard to justify moving to Japan where the salary for experienced developers is the same or less than what some entry level developers get in my country (USA).

(2016-02-25, 12:26 pm)angelneko Wrote:

Quote:RaschaverakThis is a bit off topik, but only a bit. I would like to go to Japan but definitely not to teach, rather as a software developer. Definitely not for long term 6 months, a year maybe. This in, let's say the next 3-5 years. Do you guys think it could work, meaning, that the supply/demand will be good in my favour?

unless some massive social transformation occurs, the supply/demand for foreigners will never be in favor of foreigners. its the same in any country really. why would they hire someone else to do the job when their own people can do it just as well (in their eyes. also not including things like hiring cheap foreign labor.).

also i don't see any super stand-out incentives for working tech in japan vs any other country. you won't be treated or paid as well.

i know life is not all about the money but for me, its really hard to justify moving to Japan where the salary for experienced developers is the same or less than what some entry level developers get in my country (USA).

Hehe, there is a reason why I said only for a couple of months, maybe a year Supply / demand means in this case that there is a high chance that they will not find suitable people for the job (simply because there are more jobs than applicants).

(2016-02-25, 12:50 pm)Raschaverak Wrote: Hehe, there is a reason why I said only for a couple of months, maybe a year Supply / demand means in this case that there is a high chance that they will not find suitable people for the job (simply because there are more jobs than applicants).

I'm kinda confused, but what are you talking about exactly? What job are you talking about that there is a high chance that they will not find suitable people for the job? I wouldn't really say that Japan is short on software developers, if that's what you mean. You'll probably have a harder time trying to get a software developer job than you would an English teacher job anyway, unless you have great technical skills and sufficient enough Japanese skills to be able to function in an all Japanese-speaking office. And as angelneko says, the pay is just downright pathetic for software developers (and I say this even though I'm also trying to get a job as a software developer in Japan this/next year).

If you're looking for a lower quality programming job then you can always try for one of those 派遣 contractor-like companies. The benefits and such are usually not all that great, but it's generally not expected that you'll stick with the company you get contracted by, although you may still get a job offer to become a full-time employee.

(2016-02-25, 2:48 pm)zx573 Wrote:

(2016-02-25, 12:50 pm)Raschaverak Wrote: Hehe, there is a reason why I said only for a couple of months, maybe a year Supply / demand means in this case that there is a high chance that they will not find suitable people for the job (simply because there are more jobs than applicants).

I'm kinda confused, but what are you talking about exactly? What job are you talking about that there is a high chance that they will not find suitable people for the job? I wouldn't really say that Japan is short on software developers, if that's what you mean. You'll probably have a harder time trying to get a software developer job than you would an English teacher job anyway, unless you have great technical skills and sufficient enough Japanese skills to be able to function in an all Japanese-speaking office. And as angelneko says, the pay is just downright pathetic for software developers (and I say this even though I'm also trying to get a job as a software developer in Japan this/next year).

If you're looking for a lower quality programming job then you can always try for one of those 派遣 contractor-like companies. The benefits and such are usually not all that great, but it's generally not expected that you'll stick with the company you get contracted by, although you may still get a job offer to become a full-time employee.

Apparently you're onto something, just checked gaijinpot and there are almost 4 times more teaching jobs than IT. Hm.

I think one potential thing has been over looked in IT, espc Software Dev, that can make foreigners a high demand asset in some cases. If a company wants to work with cutting edge technology or new libraries, they'll have to be doing it in English. Support for a lot of this stuff too is only English more often then not.

I've also heard (but am skeptical) that experienced [foreign] developers often beat out a lot of the Japanese hires that a company could get because they are better developers. I've mentioned this before I think, but the Japanese view programmers as blue collar workers, hence why the pay isn't anything spectacular when starting out in the field. Stories of companies hiring a new college grad that has never written code in their life and then training them to do so, are not unheard of in Japan.

I've seen a bunch of high-paying dev jobs on Forkwell Jobs, and not all of them sounded that demanding in terms of requirements. A lot of the companies seem to be trying to imitate the non-slave-like conditions and benefits of Western tech companies too, which is good. There are also well-paid freelance/temp gigs on Levtech.

Whether or not a high level of Japanese is an issue at all depends entirely on the job, but of course it's a big advantage. I think the bigger issue is the visa, as already mentioned. You'll have to get yourself hired and sponsored by a tech company either way, so maybe you could buy some time by getting yourself a humanities visa with an eikaiwa while still on your tourist visa.