I don't really agree with these 'doesn't mean anything on your resume' comments. It should be pretty easy to spin what you do (assuming you actually do stuff) into something there. I consider what I did at the eikaiwa to be 'real teaching', in the sense that after having being there a year I saw that most of my students had improved significantly over when I started. I was teaching and they learnt stuff - how is that not real teaching? Sure, I had to do it in a bit of a goofy way, but it worked well enough so hey...

I guess it depends entirely on what your job actually is, but I planned my own lessons, made my own props, came up with my own activities, and taught all ages and levels of children plus a handful of adult classes, plus had a few other responsibilities like student record keeping and interviewing potential teachers. I think I can spin this kind of stuff onto a resume pretty easily.

"Doesn't mean anything on your resume". I've learned you can re-write a lot of jobs to be more than they seem to be. I'm not talking about lying about what you did but to make it seem like your actually doing something. When I took a technical writing class, my professor said you can literally make almost any resume into a professional one. As long as you have some type of "Experience", your pretty much set.

Norman Wrote:The poster mentioning his shock of negativity towards eikaiwa initially caught my attention, but then I read that he has only been working there for a few weeks. Note that the turn-over rate for eikaiwa teachers is 3-4 months on average. The teaching 'industry' in Japan tends to view foreigners as temporary workers.

I take it that you're referring to my post. First, I should emphasize that my post wasn't meant to convey any shock in reaction to the negativity towards the eikawai industry. I avoided using emotional language and generalizations on purpose. I just wanted to offer my experience in contrast to other reports.

In my post, I emphasized that I may have been lucky to have landed a position at a good school, and I even admitted that a nearby school regularly fires their teaching staff. Another important point I made is that several of the teachers have been working at my eikaiwa for over five years (and I only met one who is jaded).

In fact, now is a good chance to mention that my eikaiwa mainly hires long-term staff. During my interview, they asked how long I would stay and if I was hoping to extend my visa after it expires. Furthermore, of all the other teachers I've spoken with, all of them have replied that they're planning to stay at least for another year.

One thing I noticed, however, is that all the other teachers have prior experience teaching English as a foreign language. Probably the only reason my resume wasn't thrown out is my teaching experience. It makes me wonder if the less employee-friendly eikaiwa target and take advantage of inexperienced teachers since they know the more employee-friendly schools are out of the teachers' reach due to lack of experience.

At any rate, I'll see how things go. Maybe I'll be eating my words in a few months.

It doesn't matter how creative with your resume you are because as soon as they see "eikaiwa teacher" the HR person's eyes are just going to glaze over in most cases. Companies who hire foreigners know what the English teaching industry is about so you aren't going to be fooling anyone, fancy writing or not.

Of course this doesn't mean you shouldn't write the best resume you can but it still doesn't change the fact that if you are ever looking for a higher level job outside of the English teaching world that a resume filled with eikaiwa or ALT experience, even a well written one, will never be taken as any sort of fantastic work experience.

^ and that is why I went back to school after my JET experience.

activeaero Wrote:It doesn't matter how creative with your resume you are because as soon as they see "eikaiwa teacher" the HR person's eyes are just going to glaze over in most cases. Companies who hire foreigners know what the English teaching industry is about so you aren't going to be fooling anyone, fancy writing or not.

That's why you don't write "English teacher," but "cultural diplomat, curriculum designer, event organizer, interpreter, and translator at an elite educational institution whose students continue on to prestigious universities, such as Waseda, Tokyo University, and Cambridge." I'm sure someone who majored in marketing could even do a better twist!

I think he is speaking about HR guys in Japan for people who want to break out of teaching into something more careerish in Japan.

"""cultural diplomat"""


This is the best one yet. You deserve an A+ in creative resume writing. However, they may ask you in the interview that "if" you had almost died at the eikaiwa from being overworked--not unheard of--would it be considered an assissination attempt?

Vileru, I hope things work out for you, but I am guessing you still might be in a honeymoon daze. Check back with us in December.

I actually got my job as a technical translator because of my experience teaching English in Japan. I didn't work as an ALT though, I worked privately doing eikaiwas and presentations. However, one year is more than enough. Having 4-5 years of ALTing in Japan on your resume might have your future boss thinking "Why on earth did he/she spend this much time on just teaching English instead of getting a degree?"

Zorlee Wrote:I actually got my job as a technical translator because of my experience teaching English in Japan. I didn't work as an ALT though, I worked privately doing eikaiwas and presentations. However, one year is more than enough. Having 4-5 years of ALTing in Japan on your resume might have your future boss thinking "Why on earth did he/she spend this much time on just teaching English instead of getting a degree?"

Getting a degree in Japan? How do you do that if you are working?

I wasn't thinking about getting a degree in Japan, more like:
Going to university to get a degree > working as an English teacher in Japan for 5+ years
I've just heard about a lot of people heading over to Japan to teach English after high school, staying there for years not getting anywhere. That's the thing that would be bad, not the teaching itself.

Uh - pretty much everyone teaching English in Japan has a degree - you can't get a visa without one, unless you're a student or have a Japanese spouse. You can't just come over to Japan after high school and teach.

Quote:It doesn't matter how creative with your resume you are because as soon as they see "eikaiwa teacher" the HR person's eyes are just going to glaze over in most cases.

I'd like to see this backed up with something. I can't see why it would could against you.

I don't want to come off as a defender of the English teaching industry in Japan, but I think these particular criticisms are unfair. Obviously, if you're working outside your intended career field you have to stretch a bit to make it sound good on your resume - but that's true for any other job as well. If your career field is teaching then there's no reason eikaiwa/ALT can't sound good on your resume, presuming you had a job where you actually taught something and didn't just parrot shit with a native accent.

How it looks on your resume is going to depend on what sort of skills you can say you picked up in your time as an English teacher. For the first year or two these skills are pretty obvious: experience adapting to a foreign environment, presentation skills, experience working with people from different cultures, and so on. However, stay any longer and really need a reason to explain why (other than you had a girlfriend/boyfriend and the money was decent).

I did 4 years as a JET ALT. This experience didn't seem to harm me at all in looking for translation jobs as I could explain those 4 years as being essential for learning Japanese to a sufficiently high level. It also showed that I was used to working in a Japanese office environment and gave me some translation experience. It depends on your individual situation.

For the original poster I would agree with what other people have said, get some decent qualifications first and then go to Japan. There are some people who have started as completely unskilled ALT/eikaiwa teachers and worked their way up through the industry to get decent jobs with plenty of teaching freedom and high salaries, but I think that they are very much in the minority.

dont have time to read the comments, but will give you my answer - taught english here for 4 months before i quit (am a student anyways).

Don't be so ignorant to think that all the companies are the same. They're all different.

As for English convo schools, there's Berlitz which is like, serious business, dealing with serious business clients. There's the cheaper ones who just take office ladies, maybe even serious business people, some house women, etc. Whoever reads the ad and signs up - whoever works nearby. It's a huge ***** city. Good part to remember is that the cheap ones still pay a lot.

Then we have the stupid ass companies which manslave people into coming here like JET, had some friends run into that nightmare. Usually pay is shit and you get thrown at a school. Cool if you like the whole teaching kids stuff. One guy I met teaches english at an all indian school, weird as hell. Wages is usually less than english convo schools, but i think it's just chiller to work at a school and be a school teacher.

shidosuru Wrote:Then we have the stupid ass companies which manslave people into coming here like JET

Lol wait, what? JET isn't a company and its probably better in many rights than most eikaiwa and ALT work.

Quote:Wages is usually less than english convo schools, but i think it's just chiller to work at a school and be a school teacher.

Sounds like you are talking about JET still. JET beats the pants off any eikaiwa in pay and even most ALT spots outside JET. Direct hires can be competitive though.

When it comes to this subject don't listen to what you read online.

http://japaneselevelup.com/2011/02/20/te...-about-it/

ryuudou Wrote:When it comes to this subject don't listen to what you read online.

http://japaneselevelup.com/2011/02/20/te...-about-it/

"Teaching English in Japan when you don’t know Japanese and teaching English in Japan when you do know Japanese are two entirely different beasts."

Best summary ever.

I've been living in and teaching English in Japan for the past 18 years. I have advanced degrees in English and Linguistics. So...I'm qualified to say what I'm about to say even though it will surely offend some here.

If you want to just live and teach here, at any level, for 2-5 years, then go for it and enjoy it. However, to teach English in Japan as a career would be the biggest mistake of your life.

With very few exceptions, you will not (and will never) be considered a "real" teacher in this country. I've been in the public high school system for the past ten years and my salary is exactly the same, no benefits of any kind, and I'm not even allowed to teach a class alone.

I have three teacher friends who are NETs and while they can teach classes alone, their salaries are the same as teachers who held their positions.........25 years ago. They also get no benefits and are considered part time teachers despite working 50 to 60 hours a week.

I have a friend who has lived and taught English in Japan at the university level for 25 years. His salary has dropped over 45% and he can no longer find full time employment, so he must put together several part time gigs from several universities to survive.

It's a boring and demoralizing job.

So why am I still here? Not knowing what I know now (teaching English in Japan sucks) I moved to Japan, got married to a Japanese, had kids, and before I knew it, I had to stay. The only other choice I had was to leave them behind, so I stayed. But now that they are older and out of school or almost out, I'm leaving this place and I can't wait.

Teaching English in Japan Sucks!

oyajijeff Wrote:However, to teach English in Japan as a career would be the biggest mistake of your life.

This bears repeating a thousand times over.

Ok, here's the truth:

It greatly depends on what type of school you work for, what company, if it's a big city or the countryside. It depends on your co-workers, boss and students.

But most importantly it depends on your attitude!
In my many years in Japan I've seen a lot of teachers come and go.
The ones that just did the teacher gig so that they would have a job that brings some money in, ended up hating the job. They didn't care about the students and didn't take the job seriously. From people like that you'll hear that teaching is an easy job (yeah ... the way they do it, it is easy indeed).

However, if you are a true educator and really care, teaching English in Japan CAN be a great job and really rewarding.

Unfortunately the truth is: it all depends. PERIOD.

(2012-08-13, 7:02 am)turvy Wrote:

Zorlee Wrote:I actually got my job as a technical translator because of my experience teaching English in Japan. I didn't work as an ALT though, I worked privately doing eikaiwas and presentations. However, one year is more than enough. Having 4-5 years of ALTing in Japan on your resume might have your future boss thinking "Why on earth did he/she spend this much time on just teaching English instead of getting a degree?"

Getting a degree in Japan? How do you do that if you are working?

You do what the Japanese do; work 19 hours per day, (study when you get home from work, in the evening) 6 days per week: study all day, Sunday, and don't have a life.

(2012-09-04, 12:36 am)oyajijeff Wrote: I've been living in and teaching English in Japan for the past 18 years. I have advanced degrees in English and Linguistics. So...I'm qualified to say what I'm about to say even though it will surely offend some here.

If you want to just live and teach here, at any level, for 2-5 years, then go for it and enjoy it. However, to teach English in Japan as a career would be the biggest mistake of your life.

With very few exceptions, you will not (and will never) be considered a "real" teacher in this country. I've been in the public high school system for the past ten years and my salary is exactly the same, no benefits of any kind, and I'm not even allowed to teach a class alone.

I have three teacher friends who are NETs and while they can teach classes alone, their salaries are the same as teachers who held their positions.........25 years ago. They also get no benefits and are considered part time teachers despite working 50 to 60 hours a week.

I have a friend who has lived and taught English in Japan at the university level for 25 years. His salary has dropped over 45% and he can no longer find full time employment, so he must put together several part time gigs from several universities to survive.

It's a boring and demoralizing job.

So why am I still here? Not knowing what I know now (teaching English in Japan sucks) I moved to Japan, got married to a Japanese, had kids, and before I knew it, I had to stay. The only other choice I had was to leave them behind, so I stayed. But now that they are older and out of school or almost out, I'm leaving this place and I can't wait.

Teaching English in Japan Sucks!

Hi, Jeff. After 9 years, and a similar story, I can offer supporting evidence from a lot of sources, in addition to personal experience. If I may elaborate, on only a couple of your topics, mentioned above, in the hope that it may prove valuable advice to those considering a career in Japan, university is "the only" serious option for anyone wanting to teach in Japan, as a career. So, you'll need an MA in TESOL, TOEFL, Applied Linguistics, or a related field, but as Jeff notes: teaching English in Japan - even at the university level - it's all over. It was over before I got there, in 2007. The 80's were the time for it. Yes, I had to accumulate a litany of part-time university jobs to pay all the bills, and this takes serious time, effort, networking, publications, presentations, and contacts. Many teachers I worked with, at Uni's had there pay reduced by 40% in 2015; jobs that they'd been loyal to for years, as Japan's government squanders money on its mafia mates - like the waling industry - and then cries catch-phrases like, "work harder everybody. Japan's economy will blossom, again." Foreigners are not "eligible" for all the bonuses that Japanese are, and there is a real social stigma associated with the "part-time" employee. As a foreigner - even with a full-time job - you will "never" be treated as equal, by the Japanese: sorry, that's the just the way it is. I always much preferred to work part-time, because of the above, but also to avoid sitting in an office, doing pointless, time-wasting rubbish - with Japanese "bosses" watching, and judging your every move - for 4 months, non-teaching time - of the year. There's something else people need to know: The government - by way of forcing people to work harder, rather than take pay cuts, or both, has passed a law stating that university lessons will extend from 90 to 105 minutes, in 2017, and some unis have wasted no time in implementing this change, already. Social status, taxes, other forms of racism, marriage, and child abduction are issues that demand entire volumes dedicated to them. If interested you may want to have a quick look at the free preview copy of my book: http://www.transformtofreedom.com/working-in-japan/ glad you managed to get out, Jeff. It takes serious effort, and usually years of a person's life to get out. Most just seem to remain - miserable - in Japan for a number of reasons. Regards, and best wishes for your happiness, Elliot.

To give you an example of how every situation is different: I am an ALT in a Tokyo suburb making ¥250,000 a month after taxes. I'm hired by the city, but the city also hires ALTs from companies like interac. The ALTs from the companies make about half of what I make, even though we both live in the same city.

(2012-09-04, 12:36 am)oyajijeff Wrote: ...
So why am I still here? Not knowing what I know now (teaching English in Japan sucks) I moved to Japan, got married to a Japanese, had kids, and before I knew it, I had to stay. The only other choice I had was to leave them behind, so I stayed. But now that they are older and out of school or almost out, I'm leaving this place and I can't wait.
...

@oyajijeff Out of curiosity, are you planning to divorce when the kids leave too? I can't quite tell from your post. Feel free to not answer - I realize it's none of my business. I'm just curious because I've heard anecdotally that there's a high divorce rate when westerners marry Japanese, but I have no idea if that's true.

I did JET and left after a few years, but I know a few guys who stuck around and got married. I haven't stayed in touch with them so I don't know how things wound up with them.

(2016-02-01, 8:45 am)Elliot Wrote:

(2012-09-04, 12:36 am)oyajijeff Wrote: I've been living in and teaching English in Japan for the past 18 years. I have advanced degrees in English and Linguistics. So...I'm qualified to say what I'm about to say even though it will surely offend some here.

If you want to just live and teach here, at any level, for 2-5 years, then go for it and enjoy it. However, to teach English in Japan as a career would be the biggest mistake of your life.

With very few exceptions, you will not (and will never) be considered a "real" teacher in this country. I've been in the public high school system for the past ten years and my salary is exactly the same, no benefits of any kind, and I'm not even allowed to teach a class alone.

I have three teacher friends who are NETs and while they can teach classes alone, their salaries are the same as teachers who held their positions.........25 years ago. They also get no benefits and are considered part time teachers despite working 50 to 60 hours a week.

I have a friend who has lived and taught English in Japan at the university level for 25 years. His salary has dropped over 45% and he can no longer find full time employment, so he must put together several part time gigs from several universities to survive.

It's a boring and demoralizing job.

So why am I still here? Not knowing what I know now (teaching English in Japan sucks) I moved to Japan, got married to a Japanese, had kids, and before I knew it, I had to stay. The only other choice I had was to leave them behind, so I stayed. But now that they are older and out of school or almost out, I'm leaving this place and I can't wait.

Teaching English in Japan Sucks!

Hi, Jeff. After 9 years, and a similar story, I can offer supporting evidence from a lot of sources, in addition to personal experience. If I may elaborate, on only a couple of your topics, mentioned above, in the hope that it may prove valuable advice to those considering a career in Japan, university is "the only" serious option for anyone wanting to teach in Japan, as a career. So, you'll need an MA in TESOL, TOEFL, Applied Linguistics, or a related field, but as Jeff notes: teaching English in Japan - even at the university level - it's all over. It was over before I got there, in 2007. The 80's were the time for it. Yes, I had to accumulate a litany of part-time university jobs to pay all the bills, and this takes serious time, effort, networking, publications, presentations, and contacts. Many teachers I worked with, at Uni's had there pay reduced by 40% in 2015; jobs that they'd been loyal to for years, as Japan's government squanders money on its mafia mates - like the waling industry - and then cries catch-phrases like, "work harder everybody. Japan's economy will blossom, again." Foreigners are not "eligible" for all the bonuses that Japanese are, and there is a real social stigma associated with the "part-time" employee. As a foreigner - even with a full-time job - you will "never" be treated as equal, by the Japanese: sorry, that's the just the way it is. I always much preferred to work part-time, because of the above, but also to avoid sitting in an office, doing pointless, time-wasting rubbish - with Japanese "bosses" watching, and judging your every move - for 4 months, non-teaching time - of the year. There's something else people need to know: The government - by way of forcing people to work harder, rather than take pay cuts, or both, has passed a law stating that university lessons will extend from 90 to 105 minutes, in 2017, and some unis have wasted no time in implementing this change, already. Social status, taxes, other forms of racism, marriage, and child abduction are issues that demand entire volumes dedicated to them. If interested you may want to have a quick look at the free preview copy of my book: http://www.transformtofreedom.com/working-in-japan/ glad you managed to get out, Jeff. It takes serious effort, and usually years of a person's life to get out. Most just seem to remain - miserable - in Japan for a number of reasons. Regards, and best wishes for your happiness, Elliot.

Wow. This is more disheartening than even what I read on debito.org! I feel so bad for you guys. I left after doing JET for two years. I was pretty burned out at that point. Now that I've started picking up the language again I sometimes wonder what it would be like if I stayed. Reading this is just so demoralizing.