I'm in desperate search for a list of alle Jōyō kanji, preferably in JLPT order, with their readings in romaji!!! It has to be in some kind of processable format, like an excel spreadsheet or csv or something, for further editing and importing into my learning program (Anki).

Some of you might think now: Romaji?! Baaah! No good. Kana all the way.
I thought so too but after learning the readings in kana form for a while (and struggling a lot) I gave learning with their romaji counterparts a spin and heck it works a damn lot better for me. Must be due to decades of roman script practice. I just get it better into my memory that way.

Anyway, I would be happy if somebody could point me to a resource or has a list to share.
Thanks in advance!

Despite your note about why you want romaji readings, I still disagree. Many people have trouble with kana (either forgetting them or slow reading speed) because they do not get enough practice. Even if using kana makes your kanji study a bit slower, I say stick with it. You're effectively practicing kana at the same time.

Romaji is a real crutch that will only hurt you in the long run. If you're struggling with kana readings, that is only more reason to use them.

Jarvik7 Wrote:Despite your note about why you want romaji readings, I still disagree. Many people have trouble with kana (either forgetting them or slow reading speed) because they do not get enough practice. Even if using kana makes your kanji study a bit slower, I say stick with it. You're effectively practicing kana at the same time.

Romaji is a real crutch that will only hurt you in the long run. If you're struggling with kana readings, that is only more reason to use them.

I have to agree with Jarvik7. With relatively little practice, I was able to learn to read kana as fast as I can read roman script. I don't think you will have much luck finding any JLPT lists in romaji anyway. No one who studies for the JLPT would seriously consider using them as it would significantly debilitate their reading capacity. I apologize if I seem to be a naysayer in any way, but many studies show that use of romaji usually leads to poor pronunciation and (obviously) poor reading capacity.

I must suggest as Jarvik7 did that you should focus on learning the kana well (a few weeks should of practice should get you to a comfortable reading level). At that point, when you use the JLPT lists, you are learning your vocabulary the way you would normally read it anyway.

Good luck either way,

Jon

[Katsuo]

Kurosawa,

I have just emailed you a list consisting of joyo kanji with romaji readings.

Kurosawa, have you looked at Heisig's books Remembering the Hiraganga/Katakana? I urge you at least to see if it makes the kana easier for you.

Do what you must to make progress you're satisfied with, but at some point you must switch to kana to be functional in Japanese. I would urge you, if you are continuing with romaji now, to back them up with LOTS of listening practice so you don't develop bad pronounciation habits that will be hard to break later.

[kana]ganbatte--[/kana]

Thanks, Katsuo, unfortunatley I'm looking for a list where on reading are in capitals to see the difference between on and kun!

I knew it would turn into this discussion
I would like to give a couple of thoughts on this (open for discussion ):

Learning the pronounciations of kanji is not the same thing as learning to read fluidly. It's about memorizing sounds and mnemonic techniques for that subject. When it comes to storing that specific information in my head I have found roman letters to be more suitable. I think I'm quite visually orientated when it comes to remembering things - this might sound like a trivial statement but what's impressive memorywise differs a lot from person to person.
When I'm learning kanji and try to remember this information I mainly see the written letters before my inner eyes and the visual representaion in romaji is just a lot more memorable to me. I admit my kana reading skills still need improvement but reading short morae for each kanji doesn't help in that area, I've learned long enough with kana readings to know that (talking strictly about myself here - your mileage may vary).
I support the point that learning with romaji only is contraproductive because it leads to malformed pronounciations but I'm using kana in every other aspect of my learning, so I don't think it will hurt especially when it improves my kanji learning speed after all.

stick with kana. struggle with kana. learn with kana.

it takes a while, but in the end it's much, much better.

if you just use kana in the other part, you're essentially going to be using 80% romanji. some words will be katakana, some will be particles, and the rest are kanji... do you see what i'm getting at?

good luck.

I'm not sure if I would want romaji invading into japanese when I'm reading something written in kanji

このNEKOはとてもKAWAIいです。　　NEKOがDAISUきですね！

My 2 pence...

While one might consider the ideal to "learn Japanese in Japanese", Kurosawa certainly makes a valid point.

Kurosawa Wrote:When it comes to storing that specific information in my head I have found roman letters to be more suitable.

Who are we to argue?

Personally I usually do learn kanji readings in Japanese. However sometimes if the pronunciation of a reading is similar to an English word I may use this association to help me. I'm sure we all do this to an extent. Kurosawa just seems to be taking it a bit further...

If it works, use it

[Katsuo]

Kurosawa,

I have just emailed you another list, this time with the "ON" readings in capitals. I hope it gets through ok.

Thanks Katsuo,
I replied to your email because the kanji didn't survive the transfer...

"Who are we to argue?" Well, not chopped liver, to be sure. There's really only one piece of GOOD advice we can give, here ... I really believe anything else is going to hurt the guy more than help. It's been said already, multiple times, but I think it's worth repeating:


If you're having trouble with kana, this isn't a sign you should be looking for ways to use LESS of it in your studies. It means that you should be using MORE of it, and more often.


Of course, so early in your studies, you're going to move more quickly using roman letters. Taking this fact to mean that you should RELY on them is a mistake, though. This isn't like the anti-Heisig crowd that are so vehemently against crutches and "shortcuts" in learning kanji. Kana is genuinely simple to learn, and while it can be frustrating at first ... the sheer speed at which you'll be able to "master" it means that no student should ever shun it. In short, it's just too easy. Stay with the pain, and you'll break through it, within WEEKS.

On the other hand, favoring romaji study-resources only prolongs the period of time in which kana characters seem foreign, difficult, and frustrating to you. The joyou kanji takes upwards of 1-2 years to really get down, if you tackle it head-on. Hiragana and Katakana, on the other hand, should be old friends to you inside of one MONTH ... but only if you're using them.

Seriously, at least with hiragana, it's actually very easy to get a respectable reading speed going. At the moment, I can read hiragana almost as quickly as I can roman letters, simply because I learned it ... and never used anything else afterwards. It didn't take very long. Katakana is a bit more difficult, but this is true even of native speakers.

If you find yourself going too slowly, it means you need PRACTICE ... forcing yourself to rely on kana in every aspect of your Japanese studies is the best way to get it.

It takes a week or two to learn kana. That's not a lot of time, and it's time well-spent. You seem comfortable with the time investment to learn kanji through RtK, but yet you're not comfortable with spending a small fraction of that time learning a basic alphabet that will help you out a lot?

That just doesn't make sense.

Keep in mind, if you go any further in Japanese, you will need the kana. There are words that do not have associated kanji, and so sentences frequently contain all 3 Japanese alphabets - kanji, hiragana, katakana.

It's not like Chinese where the sentences are all in kanji.

learn the hiragana here:
http://www.thejapanesepage.com/hiraganar.htm

when you got it a bit then go here:
http://www.realkana.com/

and do 500 a day, surly you will reconize the kana pretty well after a while.
when you feel comfortable you might get books for a more natural practise.
remember as kid you did the same thing in a few years with the roman alphabet.
how can you be disapointed about not reading kana well after what? a few weeks?