Hi all,

I have been looking for some Foreign Service Institute langauge learning programs since I heard they were one of the best ways to learn to a new language. I also know that most places sell them for $250US+ per level (and there are generally two levels per language).

As the Foreign Service Institute is a public service, I decided to do some research and I found that these programs are available as at no cost as they are part of the public domain since the US Government created it.

I found a website that happens to have several languages posted (unfortunately not the Japanese program yet), but I still think that there are other students out there who are learning Vietnamese, Italian, etc. and could definitely use these programs. Here is the link to the website: http://fsi-language-courses.com/default.aspx I hope that it helps anyone who needs it.

Jon

I remember coming across these in my travels. Some sites will claim to have a Japanese version, but I believe it wasn't actually written by the same people who do the offical FSI courses and so isn't as good...

Something like that anyways :|

I have never used them, but I have heard from several serious language learners that they are some of the absolute best materials available. The site you've found is great, but it's not a USGOv site and so is not yet complete for every language posted, unfortunately.

Has anyone ever found a USGov website with them available, either for free download or a nominal copying/service fee? I poked around on FSI's site once to no avail, and USGov web pages are typically unhelpful and poorly designed.

billyclyde Wrote:I have never used them, but I have heard from several serious language learners that they are some of the absolute best materials available. The site you've found is great, but it's not a USGOv site and so is not yet complete for every language posted, unfortunately.

Has anyone ever found a USGov website with them available, either for free download or a nominal copying/service fee? I poked around on FSI's site once to no avail, and USGov web pages are typically unhelpful and poorly designed.

It is unfortunate that the site is incomplete. I haven't found a government website with them either. I have been looking. I know that places like audioforum.com, etc. have it but it is incredibly expensive (like Pimsleur).

I've seen those too, resellers making QUITE a profit from this stuff. If anyone has used the services and can recommend which FSI course to start with, I'm thinking Spanish after I reach a comfortable resting spot with Japanese in the next six months.

I found a copy of the FSI materials for Japanese in my local library this morning. Hurrah. I'd been looking for it. My first impressions, after browsing the material for first chapter (including tapes) is it has tons of potential.
Here's my initial thoughts:

- It uses the Shin-kunrei-shiki (New Official System) of romanization, which is different than the popular Hepburn, so it doesn't appear as user friendly. However, it has markings for stress and intonation that Hepburn doesn't, assisting you to acheive a more authentic accent (which, of course, can only really be gained by lots of conversation with native speakers.)

- There is no kana or kanji, so don't expect a hint of written language. This could be a disadvantage in the long run, when it takes more effort to switch to kana and kanji if you want to be truly literate in Japanese, which I hope would be the goal of many of us here. However, if you're only focusing on the spoken aspect of the language, this isn't as big a problem.

- There are lots of drills for each lesson, testing responses to questions, replacement drills where you substitute one word for another into sentences, grammar practice and explanation, expansion drills where you build up a sentence one word at a time (similar to Pimsleur), and so on. It seems to have more drills per lesson than most materials.

- What I am most impressed with, (after one afternoon) is the CDs are entirely in Japanese (OK, you hear the English words "expansion drill," or "replacement drill," but that's it.) It's surprisingly difficult to find tapes where the teachers don't spend half of the time, or more, talking in English. I'm not sure of the total length of the CDs, but there are several hours for sure. And to boot it is all at regular speed - none of the slow, careful pronunciation you never hear in real life.

Conclusion on Day 1: This could be a real find. My spoken Japanese is at a lower intermediate level, so I can tell aready I'll breeze through most of the first few chapters - but even so, there are subtlties of meaning and pronunciation in the FSI material that other materials brush over. So I'm picking up tips from the get go.

I get this material for at least three weeks, more if I can renew it. So I'll give an update later on how effective I think it is, and if it's worth the price, or the effort to hunt it down. (Of course, free in the local library is unbeatable)

[kana] ganbatte [/kana]

timcampbell Wrote:It has markings for stress and intonation that Hepburn doesn't, assisting you to acheive a more authentic accent (which, of course, can only really be gained by lots of conversation with native speakers.)

That's the first I've heard of that! Very interesting: I know that pitch is regular for 80% of the words in Japanese, but it would still be very useful to know exactly how I'm supposed to say stuff.

On-topic, if the FSI materials are in open domain (are they?), then one should be able to distribute them freely, no? This thread is the first I've heard of them, but I'll check the copyright stuff later to see if timcampbell's windfall could benefit all of us.

From what he's saying, it sounds like Japanese - The Spoken Language on steroids.

Megaqwerty - You're certainly right about the regular stress in Japanese. Where the extra stress marks in FSI come in handy is the difference, for example, between SA-ke (salmon) and sa-KE (sake, the good stuff.) Though Japanese is not as highly stressed as English is, it can be critical at times.
There is also a natural flow to any language, where certain words, or phrases in a sentence, get more stress than others. I've so far had to pick this up from native speakers, but FSI has marks to help you through this. It's an interesting system.
Japanese on Steriods? Hmmm, I'll let you know.
Anyway, there are 25 introductory pages on pronunciation and stress/intonation. (That's 8.5x11 with 8 point type), so FSI certainly puts a strong emphasis on saying it right.

... more to come

I just did a Google search to see if I could find the FSI Japanese materials anywhere (even as a torrent) and came up blank...

... unless you want to spend several hundreds of dollars that is!

But, I did find this site (http://fsi-language-courses.com/default.aspx) which appears to have been created to provide the FSI courses for free. The catch is that it relys on user submissions of the materials. I gather most are done by people with access to them in their local libraries.

So, perhaps if timcampbell wanted to make the materials available to the above website then they'd be available for all...

I guess the most difficult/annoying part would be scanning in all the accompanying text :|

Mighty_Matt Wrote:The catch is that it relys on user submissions of the materials. I gather most are done by people with access to them in their local libraries.

Hmm, then as suspected, anyone is free to distribute them, not just the government, well, provided that that site is legal.

While it would be awesome to get free access to such a resource, it would also be a huge time investment to scan everything and I'm not sure how we could reciprocate.

http://fsi-language-courses.com/default.aspx

Thanks Jon; this is a very cool site! But I can't believe they have some stuff up for Lao and Bulgarian but not a thing for Japanese yet. They gotta get their priorities straight! At least the Chinese section looks to be quite comprehensive and interesting.

Well, I found the reason why that site hasn't posted any Japanese materials yet. On the forum, there is a thread where some say that the FSI course for Japanese is not yet in public domain. Ah, so sad...

http://fsi-language-courses.com/forum/fo...ID=87&PN=1

timcampbell, I'm guessing that the version you checked out is the Eleanor Harz Jorden book, correct?

The audio for Japanese - The Spoken Language parts 1, 2 and 3 is available free at the Ohio State Digital Language Lab-Japanese. There is some video as well. Yeah, it's a little outdated, but the requirements for auditory comprehension and verbal production at natural speed is far more demanding than what's required by most other elementary-intermediate audio materials. There are the books of course which are in romaji, but you can also get what they call, "Supplement: Japanese Typescript" for each of the 3 books. I got mine not that long ago on either Amazon or Alibris, can't remember. They were cheap.

Anyone interested in FSI French, Spanish, or Chinese should check out http://www.loquella.com, where you'll find a bunch of FSI lessons for those languages in a computerized format. The Chinese course is especially worth checking out because they've included the simplified chracters to go with the pinyin. And best of all, loquella is still free!

Dragg Wrote:http://fsi-language-courses.com/default.aspx

Thanks Jon; this is a very cool site!

Not entirely sure how you got that from my username :|

I think he was talking to jondesousa. Note your link is identical to the one in the original post.

Dragg, it is the same Eleanor Harz Jorden book that they talked about in your link,
http://fsi-language-courses.com/forum/f ? 7&PN=1
I don't believe it is public domain. It's published by Barron's, but looks like it's using the FSI material. The material is older, originally copyright is 1963, but the dialogues sound much like the Japanese I hear every day. And the speed is authentic. I will keep poking around and keep you updated. We can all find Japanese audio materials, but good quality tapes, at real conversational speed, with little or no English, and at a decent price (or even free) is hard to come by.

JimmySeal Wrote:I think he was talking to jondesousa. Note your link is identical to the one in the original post.

Haha. I completely did not realise that the link was already in the first post. *blush*

timcampbell Wrote:I found a copy of the FSI materials for Japanese in my local library this morning. Hurrah. I'd been looking for it. My first impressions, after browsing the material for first chapter (including tapes) is it has tons of potential.
Here's my initial thoughts:

- It uses the Shin-kunrei-shiki (New Official System) of romanization, which is different than the popular Hepburn, so it doesn't appear as user friendly. However, it has markings for stress and intonation that Hepburn doesn't, assisting you to acheive a more authentic accent (which, of course, can only really be gained by lots of conversation with native speakers.)

- There is no kana or kanji, so don't expect a hint of written language. This could be a disadvantage in the long run, when it takes more effort to switch to kana and kanji if you want to be truly literate in Japanese, which I hope would be the goal of many of us here. However, if you're only focusing on the spoken aspect of the language, this isn't as big a problem.

- There are lots of drills for each lesson, testing responses to questions, replacement drills where you substitute one word for another into sentences, grammar practice and explanation, expansion drills where you build up a sentence one word at a time (similar to Pimsleur), and so on. It seems to have more drills per lesson than most materials.

- What I am most impressed with, (after one afternoon) is the CDs are entirely in Japanese (OK, you hear the English words "expansion drill," or "replacement drill," but that's it.) It's surprisingly difficult to find tapes where the teachers don't spend half of the time, or more, talking in English. I'm not sure of the total length of the CDs, but there are several hours for sure. And to boot it is all at regular speed - none of the slow, careful pronunciation you never hear in real life.

Conclusion on Day 1: This could be a real find. My spoken Japanese is at a lower intermediate level, so I can tell aready I'll breeze through most of the first few chapters - but even so, there are subtlties of meaning and pronunciation in the FSI material that other materials brush over. So I'm picking up tips from the get go.

I get this material for at least three weeks, more if I can renew it. So I'll give an update later on how effective I think it is, and if it's worth the price, or the effort to hunt it down. (Of course, free in the local library is unbeatable)

[kana] ganbatte [/kana]

Ah, Beginning Japanese. I'm using it myself, and I quite like it so far. Granted, I'm only on lesson two, so I can't testify as to it's effectiveness for learning the language, but I've heard only good things about it. It is, more or less, an earlier version of Japanese: the Spoken Language, but I must say I like it better than it's successor since it's much, much more structured.

As you said, it's primarily a spoken-language course. There shouldn't be too much of an issue about switching to kana and kanji later, since you aren't meant to seriously be using the book as your main resource. It is, first and foremost, simply a supplement for the tapes. It's there to provide translations of dialogs and grammar explanations and to help with the occasional word you can't understand, but not much else. Also, there is a book, Reading Japanese, which is meant to be used starting at lesson 10 of Beginning Japanese in order to learn kana and kanji. I'd complain about having to buy a separate book, but it was less than 3 dollars on Amazon. <_<

I don't know if it's worth the money, though. Language materials as a whole are overpriced. I'm as of yet undecided about whether I'm going to spring $140 for part two of the course, or throw caution to the wind and just start trying to use native materials at that point. I mean, how much could they possibly pack into 15 lessons? But I digress. In any case, if anyone happens to have a copy in his local library (or a membership with BitMe... not that I advocate file-sharing or anything...), I'd certainly check it out.

I posted this before, but I don't know how to send a link. (Yeah, I know, so 19th century!) The audio for this program is online free at Ohio State University digital lab. You can download it or just listen to it. Beginning Japanese is the predecessor to Spoken Japanese, both by Eleanor Harz Jorden. The audio available on Ohio State's web site covers lessons up to 30. There is also audio for "Reading Japanese"

Mcjon01 Wrote:In any case, if anyone happens to have a copy in his local library (or a membership with BitMe... not that I advocate file-sharing or anything...), I'd certainly check it out.

Whoa, I never thought about that! Going to my local library, I mean.

I agree with Mcjon01. I've been able to work through the first few lessons now and it's primarily a spoken language course. The book is a good reference, but there are so many exercises with the tapes, and excellent ones at that, that you don't refer much to the book when practicing - except, say, when you're trying to master a new phrase.
The tape exercises are top notch. They are at regular speed, and you can only complete your responses in the given time if you speak at regular speed, so you are forced to think and respond quickly in Japanese.
Though it's a beginners course, I don't know if it should be your first introduction to Japanese, since it can seem a bit intense. (It was designed for foreign service employees who needed to learn quickly and intensely). However, if you feel comfortable with some basics in Japanese and want to turn up the heat I say jump in.
I'm also not sure whether it's worth the steep price, especially with two parts. If they were the only spoken Japanese materials you ever purchased, you worked through them diligently and came out speaking fluent Japanese, then of course it would be worth the price. In reality, though, we don't always follow through to the end, or the materials become just a part of a large collection of books and tapes.
The best idea is to take the material for a test drive from your local library, if it's there.

Laura Wrote:I posted this before, but I don't know how to send a link. (Yeah, I know, so 19th century!) The audio for this program is online free at Ohio State University digital lab. You can download it or just listen to it. Beginning Japanese is the predecessor to Spoken Japanese, both by Eleanor Harz Jorden. The audio available on Ohio State's web site covers lessons up to 30. There is also audio for "Reading Japanese"

Are these the links? http://languagelab.it.ohio-state.edu/index.php?id=1673
http://languagelab.it.ohio-state.edu/index.php?id=3180

jondesousa Wrote:I found a website that happens to have several languages posted (unfortunately not the Japanese program yet), but I still think that there are other students out there who are learning Vietnamese, Italian, etc. and could definitely use these programs.

FSI Mandarin is great (at least the first module, which deals with pronunciation)
FSI Spanish is argueably the best program ever made for Spanish (according to many who have used it)
FSI Thai is terrible

The point I'm trying to make is that there is a lot of variation in the quality of the programs. They are free, so try them out, and if they seem bad, use something else.

Calchas, yes those are the links. Thanks!