I am having a hard time with using text books. I borrowed genki from a friend and I am getting bored with it. The book is becoming a chore to go though and pick out vocab and sentences. Reading the grammar points I get overwhelming and discouraged to even study Japanese. Right now I am learning the te-form and the short/plain form. Its really hard to swallow. What do you guys use to learn vocab,sentences and grammar other than textbooks. Any tips to help me get pass this point. I am looking for something fun that will get me back into the swing of things.
2012-05-07, 1:30 pm
Like you, I also got bored of textbooks quickly. I found using the [Basic/Intermediate/Advanced] Dictionary of Japanese Grammar series, along with a dictionary to look up words from Japanese media, to be more fun. Any basic grammar dictionary should work though. Then I put sentences from my favorite media/manga into Anki.
Doing the CORE 2000/6000 Anki decks also might help for vocabulary.
Doing the CORE 2000/6000 Anki decks also might help for vocabulary.
Edited: 2012-05-07, 1:34 pm
2012-05-07, 1:40 pm
Have you finished RTK1 yet?
If not, start and finish it ASAP.
For particles, I recommend getting "All About Particles".
It lists all the particles and has all the usages for every particle.
So basically, start reading stuff in Japanese, circle the particles, and find out which usage is correct.
For Grammar review, you can try Tae Kim.
If you like to watch the news, try http://www.fnn-news.com. They have EXACT japanese subtitles for their videos. Basically, a word for word transcription of what the newscaster is saying.
If you like Japanese TV drama, go to http://www.d-addicts.com. They have Japanese subtitles for many shows. So you can learn from actual japanese conversations (instead of the contrived artificial conversation you often get in textbooks). Since it's all 100% dialogue, it's really great for learning conversation Japanese.
You can also try Japanese manga, if you're into that.
Like the previous poster mentioned, Core 2000/6000 is also good.
If not, start and finish it ASAP.
For particles, I recommend getting "All About Particles".
It lists all the particles and has all the usages for every particle.
So basically, start reading stuff in Japanese, circle the particles, and find out which usage is correct.
For Grammar review, you can try Tae Kim.
If you like to watch the news, try http://www.fnn-news.com. They have EXACT japanese subtitles for their videos. Basically, a word for word transcription of what the newscaster is saying.
If you like Japanese TV drama, go to http://www.d-addicts.com. They have Japanese subtitles for many shows. So you can learn from actual japanese conversations (instead of the contrived artificial conversation you often get in textbooks). Since it's all 100% dialogue, it's really great for learning conversation Japanese.
You can also try Japanese manga, if you're into that.
Like the previous poster mentioned, Core 2000/6000 is also good.
Edited: 2012-05-07, 1:52 pm
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2012-05-07, 3:12 pm
Yea i did finish RTK 1 thanks for the info have either of you finished the Core sentencse pack? How are they. I am still a begineering in Japanese learning and i know sure If i would be able to understand them.
2012-05-07, 4:09 pm
I guess my biggest problem is that I feel that I will never learn Japanese I am not seening any improvement in the way that I am teaching myself thats why I am trying to look at the way other people are learning. Anyone get any info that can help me out?
2012-05-07, 4:10 pm
why is genki hard for you?
it's pretty easy and straightforward. if you're overwhelmed, then switching material won't help. not trying to diss you but if we can get to the heart of the problem then we can understand better.
if you want to do something fun, do it on the side. simple manga with furigana (like yotsubato), graded readers, anime/drama with english subtitles to get you warmed up. you should be doing something fun otherwise it becomes a chore and you can't track your progress.
i feel like grammar review and vocab acquisition is a boring but necessarily evil and it never gets fun, but when you use it to do something then you'll be glad you did.
it's pretty easy and straightforward. if you're overwhelmed, then switching material won't help. not trying to diss you but if we can get to the heart of the problem then we can understand better.
if you want to do something fun, do it on the side. simple manga with furigana (like yotsubato), graded readers, anime/drama with english subtitles to get you warmed up. you should be doing something fun otherwise it becomes a chore and you can't track your progress.
i feel like grammar review and vocab acquisition is a boring but necessarily evil and it never gets fun, but when you use it to do something then you'll be glad you did.
Edited: 2012-05-07, 4:11 pm
2012-05-07, 4:25 pm
Its not that its hard but sometimes understanding the grammar points is some what tough. and sometimes it can get boring. I was thinking that maybe the reason I am not understanding the grammar is because I do not know enough vocab thats why I wanted to see what other material thats is more vocab heavy instead of grammer.
2012-05-07, 4:33 pm
can you give me an example of how and why it's tough? the vocab in the beginning of each chapter is sufficient enough to learn all the grammar in the chapter.
2012-05-07, 6:58 pm
What I am saying that it is hard to memorize even though I put it into Anki. I can not use the grammar point or a verb form in natural conversation. I am trying to see if anyone else has that problem.
another question for anyone lets say you put 30 new sentences into your SRS do study all of those 30 that same day?
another question for anyone lets say you put 30 new sentences into your SRS do study all of those 30 that same day?
2012-05-07, 8:17 pm
Yeah, I think it's very common to have a hard time transitioning from seeing a particular construction in a textbook to being able to use it in conversation. I think it's not because there's anything wrong with textbooks, per se, but they're designed to be used in a classroom environment where you would be able to get some focused practice time and conversation exercises for every new construction you learned, and it's really hard to replicate that experience self-studying -- but OTOH, I'm not sure that sentence pattern drills actually work except on a pretty short-term basis.
One thing you might do is make a production-focused Anki deck where the "question" side is part of a dialogue in Genki and the "answer" side is your response, something like:
Ｑ： きのうはどこか行きましたか。 (Kyoto)
Ａ： ええ、京都へいきました。
But I would say, try not to think of a textbook as something that's going to teach you the whole language, but rather, something that's going to act as a scaffold (for grammar, and the most common words and sentence patterns) so that you can start to move into understanding simple written and spoken sentences. When you see a new sentence pattern, you shouldn't be looking to use it yourself immediately. You should just know what it is so that you can understand it the next time you see it, and the time after that, so that you can start to move into native materials. I think that the learning you get from doing a sentence pattern drill is much shallower than the learning you get from seeing that sentence pattern a couple dozen times in a couple dozen different contexts. So the purpose of the textbook is to get you to the point where you can actually understand it when you see it in the wild.
One thing you might do is make a production-focused Anki deck where the "question" side is part of a dialogue in Genki and the "answer" side is your response, something like:
Ｑ： きのうはどこか行きましたか。 (Kyoto)
Ａ： ええ、京都へいきました。
But I would say, try not to think of a textbook as something that's going to teach you the whole language, but rather, something that's going to act as a scaffold (for grammar, and the most common words and sentence patterns) so that you can start to move into understanding simple written and spoken sentences. When you see a new sentence pattern, you shouldn't be looking to use it yourself immediately. You should just know what it is so that you can understand it the next time you see it, and the time after that, so that you can start to move into native materials. I think that the learning you get from doing a sentence pattern drill is much shallower than the learning you get from seeing that sentence pattern a couple dozen times in a couple dozen different contexts. So the purpose of the textbook is to get you to the point where you can actually understand it when you see it in the wild.
2012-05-07, 8:22 pm
You need to hear Japanese people use the grammar points (i.e. not just making up sentences on your own). That's what'll make you sound natural.
So use books to review grammar points. But focus on seeing them in action while reading native material or hearing japanese people having conversations (Japanese TV dramas and variety shows are good for this).
Don't worry about understanding everything being spoken. Just listen.
Talking speed will become less of a problem. In time, you'll figure out
which words/phrases are important enough to learn. Don't let the fear
of hearing words you don't understand hold you back.
So use books to review grammar points. But focus on seeing them in action while reading native material or hearing japanese people having conversations (Japanese TV dramas and variety shows are good for this).
Don't worry about understanding everything being spoken. Just listen.
Talking speed will become less of a problem. In time, you'll figure out
which words/phrases are important enough to learn. Don't let the fear
of hearing words you don't understand hold you back.
2012-05-07, 9:06 pm
ya the idea that you would be using stuff from genki in a conversation is really premature in my opinion. if you're that much of a beginner you won't be able to talk, and that's going to be the way it is for a long time.
I think it's more important that you get to a point where you can enjoy native materials, and learn from them. try to focus more on simply understanding text, and later speech.
I think it's more important that you get to a point where you can enjoy native materials, and learn from them. try to focus more on simply understanding text, and later speech.