So, I'm at #652, and on my third attempt of RTK. I'm at a steady pace of about 35-40 new Kanji/day.

My process, when I'm reviewing new cards for the first time, is to 1) read the keyword, then 2) recall the story from memory(only if I need to), and 3) recall kanji from memory. If I'm able to do this in about 30 seconds, I pass it. If it takes longer, I fail it and take extra time to revert the stories to memory. However, I'm reading of most other people giving MUCH more time (up to 3-4 minutes) to recall a Kanji, and even getting to peek at the story written down to help recall the Kanji. Is this a more efficient way to learn new cards? Am I making it too hard on myself. If I am, I feel I'm capable of going at a faster pace. My worry is if I decide to go faster WITH the aid of the story written down at the beginning, it won't help me in the long run.

I understand this topic probably has been discussed before, but I've been unable to find it in the forums...

I only give myself 10 seconds. I don't write the kanji, only recall the shape (primitives, location and peculiarities). At 50 new per day, I had ca. 250 reviews per day.

You're fast enough. At 40 a day, you'll be done in a month. Sure, you can do 100 a day and be done twice as fast, but you'll overwhelm yourself with reviews and you'll end up reviewing the "learned" kanji for a month after having "completed" RTK1. Not that that's bad, as it'll let you get on with core6k and in general finish faster, but it's time-consuming and not as efficient. Plus, since you seem to have given up a few times already, you'd want to stay consistent and just keep doing it, going 150% and then burning out won't help you.

Your goal is to get used to Kanji, that is what RTK is there for. If you don't actually plan to handwrite anything or don't see the need to do it in the future, then yes, there are ways to make the process easier.

You already know that some people are adding stories to the front, blanked out and only visible while hovering over it with the mouse, which is one way. You could also add a hint to help you recall the character, a mnemonic, or an actual picture of something that reminds you of that particular kanji. Just a weak cue to help you actively recall the kanji.

And if this is not enough you might want to give the so-called lazy kanji method a try. You can find discussions about it with the search function. But this is more of a last straw if you ask me. My word of advice to you is, give yourself the necessary time to recall, even in cases where it takes 2 minutes. You will become faster at one point in time because you will have written or drawn the characters in the air numerous times. Give yourself the time it takes.

Fadeway Wrote:I don't write the kanji

A lot of people trick themselves into a false sense of security - they click through a card on anki when they "think" they know it and so on... i was 1 of these people... Have u tried the ds kanji kentei game - that saves on paper

Fadeway, Magareboshi, thanks so much for the input! I'm glad I'm not the only one using such a short "recall time window".

Nagareboshi Wrote:Your goal is to get used to Kanji, that is what RTK is there for. If you don't actually plan to handwrite anything or don't see the need to do it in the future, then yes, there are ways to make the process easier.

On the contrary. I love writing the kanji! I have pages upon pages of kanji written down. One of my faults (which is probably why I quit the past three times) is that I get a little obsessed with doing these. This time around, I've adopted a much slower and casual pace which so far has made the experience more fun and enjoyable.

I guess what my real concern are using the stories. Right now I'm using RevTK as my SRS. Yes, I still use the stories, but I hardly put stories into the flashcards unless I've failed a card and really need work on committing a story to memory. Thus, I hardly ever use the stories to help recall/write the kanji. This is where I'm concerned about making it too hard on myself. Is simply trusting the SRS and allowing myself the luxury of peeking at the story if I need to a successful approach to the system? If so, then I know I can go at a faster pace so long as I'm aware of making it fun and casual enough for me. My job allows me ample down time to run reviews, so the amount of reviews isn't a worry for me

As for Anki vs. RevTK, I just recently downloaded Anki a few days ago and am really digging the layout. Plus the fact I can review whenever I need to on my phone, I'm thinking of switching over to that. But that's a hell of a lot of stories to transfer over for me... -.-

Merocor Wrote:Fadeway, Magareboshi, thanks so much for the input! I'm glad I'm not the only one using such a short "recall time window".

Nagareboshi Wrote:Your goal is to get used to Kanji, that is what RTK is there for. If you don't actually plan to handwrite anything or don't see the need to do it in the future, then yes, there are ways to make the process easier.

On the contrary. I love writing the kanji! I have pages upon pages of kanji written down. One of my faults (which is probably why I quit the past three times) is that I get a little obsessed with doing these. This time around, I've adopted a much slower and casual pace which so far has made the experience more fun and enjoyable.

I guess what my real concern are using the stories. Right now I'm using RevTK as my SRS. Yes, I still use the stories, but I hardly put stories into the flashcards unless I've failed a card and really need work on committing a story to memory. Thus, I hardly ever use the stories to help recall/write the kanji. This is where I'm concerned about making it too hard on myself. Is simply trusting the SRS and allowing myself the luxury of peeking at the story if I need to a successful approach to the system? If so, then I know I can go at a faster pace so long as I'm aware of making it fun and casual enough for me. My job allows me ample down time to run reviews, so the amount of reviews isn't a worry for me

Well, in that case, allow yourself the luxury to have them there just in case. I mean, why not? You aren't forced to hover over them, or are you? And there is also a possibility of adding at least some sort of hint, something that points in the right direction but doesn't give away too much, a more detailed hint, and the story in case all else fails. Shouldn't be too difficult to come up with a card and those additional fields. The only other options are to rewrite the stories, or print them out, and go over them throughout the day. Just make sure to finish it, at whatever pace is comfortable to you.

Just don't mark a card as correctly answered if you needed the story to answer it. The goal is, after all, to connect the keywords to the characters, not the stories to them.

About the only hint I'd add and not use as grounds for marking the card as "failed" is one to help distinguish between characters with similar keywords.

Fadeway Wrote:Just don't mark a card as correctly answered if you needed the story to answer it. The goal is, after all, to connect the keywords to the characters, not the stories to them.

The goal of RTK is to write the Kanji. Its also to remember the "meaning" of the characters, but I think this one is maybe a little more debatable.

You should fail the card if you can't write it, period. If you can write it from the keyword, fine. If you have to use the keyword to recall the story and then write it, fine. However, passing the card after you peeked at the story should be a fail if your goal is to write them.

Honestly, if you aren't aiming to write the kanji anytime soon you don't really need the RTK to start learning more Japanese...

Sorry, I meant if you need to look at the story. Recalling the story from the keyword is fine, it's how they're meant to be used. Guess I should've been clearer with my wording.

Personally, I never paid attention to writing and used RTK for the meanings only. I don't think the three months the process took me were misspent - knowing the meanings in advance helps me a lot, and not least, I don't need to have spent hours with every kanji in context to make it more than just "another weird symbol" in my mind, they're all differentiated and systematized.

vix86 Wrote:You should fail the card if you can't write it, period. If you can write it from the keyword, fine. If you have to use the keyword to recall the story and then write it, fine. However, passing the card after you peeked at the story should be a fail if your goal is to write them.

It sounds like I'm on the right track then. I hardly add the stories as it is to the site. The way I see it, if I can't recall a story from the keyword, then either the story sucks and I need to pick a new story, or I'll need to somehow modify it and make it more memorable.

I'm surprised to see you guys say that if you read the story it's a fail. I have my Anki set up so that it hides the story in a hint. If I can remember the kanji with just the keyword then it's easy. If I have think of the story then it's good and if I can't remember the kanji even after looking at the story then it's the fail. It seems like there are people here who don't have the book trying to make things harder. The story is important also because it should include the primitives that make up the kanji.

As another person on the forum said, the story is effectively the direct formula for the kanji, so reading that is just as bad as looking at the kanji and copying it. Of course, if you remember it without aid, that's fine, that's the aim of the method. It's not making it harder, it's just making sure you're learning the right things.

The way I do it is I see if I can remember the story and kanji. If I can recall it, it is correct, even if it takes a minute or two. If I can't recall it, I will peek at the story and mark it incorrect.

frony0 Wrote:As another person on the forum said, the story is effectively the direct formula for the kanji, so reading that is just as bad as looking at the kanji and copying it. Of course, if you remember it without aid, that's fine, that's the aim of the method. It's not making it harder, it's just making sure you're learning the right things.

So how do you ever get one wrong? If your story is good, there should be no reason to not the kanji at all. If you are looking at the story and still not getting it, you are doing something wrong. The story is something you are supposed to remember by yourself.

Merocor Wrote:

vix86 Wrote:You should fail the card if you can't write it, period. If you can write it from the keyword, fine. If you have to use the keyword to recall the story and then write it, fine. However, passing the card after you peeked at the story should be a fail if your goal is to write them.

It sounds like I'm on the right track then. I hardly add the stories as it is to the site. The way I see it, if I can't recall a story from the keyword, then either the story sucks and I need to pick a new story, or I'll need to somehow modify it and make it more memorable.

Okay maybe you guys changed my mind. I'm now agreeing with Merocor. I'm just getting started so I'm trying to figure out the best way to do things.