usis35 Wrote:I am using a variation of this method, and it is working very well so far. I would like to know if you see any downside.
I use both keywords together, one along the other, like:

I have quite a few cards like that.

Quote:I highlight in red the on-yomi and in blue the kun-yomi.

Why not katakana for on'yomi and hiragana for kun'yomi?
That way you get extra practice for katakana.

mmm ...
Could be. But for instance in　失う 【うしなう】 I use blue for うしな　and black for う。
Otherwise I cannot see if the reading for 失 is (うしな) or (うし).

Regarding frequency, I use as a keyword for 障:
【しょうがい】 google 48,400,000
instead of 【さわる】google 260,000

usis35 Wrote:I am using a variation of this method, and it is working very well so far. I would like to know if you see any downside.
I use both keywords together, one along the other, like:

parking (ちゅうしゃ)
nightfall (こんばん)
behind (うしろ)

I highlight in red the on-yomi and in blue the kun-yomi.
I try to use the Japanese word most frequent for each kanji in google.co.jp
In found that Wrigtak sometimes uses a frequent word, but sometimes he doesn't, maybe because he prefers to use keywords with kun-yomi.
I don't use example sentences.

There's a big hole in your technique. For example, nightfall (こんばん). How do you know if it's こん or ばん which is the nightfall kanji? I would recommend my solution to make this clear: Nightfall/今？（こんばん）

Not only does it tell you exactly what reading you're looking for etc, it's also extra free exposure to other kanji as well. Especially useful for situations like 嘱託 where it's easy to mix the two up.

usis35 Wrote:But for instance in　失う 【うしなう】 I use blue for うしな　and black for う。
Otherwise I cannot see if the reading for 失 is (うしな) or (うし).

What about うしな・う?

Tobberoth Wrote:

usis35 Wrote:I am using a variation of this method, and it is working very well so far. I would like to know if you see any downside.
I use both keywords together, one along the other, like:

parking (ちゅうしゃ)
nightfall (こんばん)
behind (うしろ)

I highlight in red the on-yomi and in blue the kun-yomi.
I try to use the Japanese word most frequent for each kanji in google.co.jp
In found that Wrigtak sometimes uses a frequent word, but sometimes he doesn't, maybe because he prefers to use keywords with kun-yomi.
I don't use example sentences.

There's a big hole in your technique. For example, nightfall (こんばん). How do you know if it's こん or ばん which is the nightfall kanji? I would recommend my solution to make this clear: Nightfall/今?(こんばん)

Not only does it tell you exactly what reading you're looking for etc, it's also extra free exposure to other kanji as well. Especially useful for situations like 嘱託 where it's easy to mix the two up.

Yeah, I've been doing it somewhat like this for a while (even while going through the book, due to some prior knowledge of kanji).
Say I have the card for 晩, my question would look like this:
Nightfall (ばん御飯)

Also on kanji like 笑, the question side looks like this:
Laugh (わら.う/え顔)

So far it's been working out pretty well (at least that's what it feels like).

Tobberoth Wrote:There's a big hole in your technique. For example, nightfall (こんばん). How do you know if it's こん or ばん which is the nightfall kanji?

In nightfall (こんばん) , I highlight in red ばん.

iSoron Wrote:

usis35 Wrote:But for instance in　失う 【うしなう】 I use blue for うしな　and black for う。
Otherwise I cannot see if the reading for 失 is (うしな) or (うし).

What about うしな・う?

That's what I personally use for kun'yomi.

I've started using the Anki file, and highlighting the relevant kanji in a word in blue as well (I'll try to write out the whole word if I feel like it, but I don't really mark myself on that).

But for verbs and adjectives, I just highlight the whole thing and make myself work out the okurigana (again, if I feel like it).

Also, for 亘, is that commonly used as わたる? I can't remember ever really seeing it, but maybe I'm simply just not remembering it.

One problem I've noticed is that こんばん doesn't mean nightfall It means "this evening" or "tonight". 笑う doesn't just mean laugh either, it also means to grin or smile. One word definitions don't really capture meaning well.

For nightfall you'd want 夕暮れ (ゆうぐれ）.

usis35 Wrote:I am using a variation of this method, and it is working very well so far. I would like to know if you see any downside.
I use both keywords together, one along the other, like:

parking (ちゅうしゃ)
nightfall (こんばん)
behind (うしろ)

If this works for you then that's fine but I created the Japanese prompts because I wanted to stop using the English ones. As Jarvik7 says, "nightfall" and こんばん are quite different. I wouldn't put them together.

As I've posted quite a few times, my Japanese keywords Anki deck has evolved over time. I've been using it a while now and some of the easier kanji have intervals of close to four years(!). Living in Japan has helped me to identify ones that are used very rarely and the list needs an update.

The Anki file that I have posted gives hiragana only and asks for the kanji. If there are two kanji in the word, that means you have to recall both kanji. I decided a while ago that this made things too difficult and that the flashcards should stick to Supermemo's minimum information principle. For this reason, I've been changing a lot of my cards. For example, for

Q: だいとうりょう
A: 大統領

I changed it to

Q:だいとうりょう（大とう領）
A:大統領

So that I'm testing myself on the kanji I want to learn and nothing more. I'll export my Japanese keywords cards and post it as a deck soon.

albion Wrote:Also, for 亘, is that commonly used as わたる? I can't remember ever really seeing it, but maybe I'm simply just not remembering it.

亘 is the name of the main character in Miyabe Miyuki's "Brave Story", which I was reading at the time. It is pronounced わたる.

亘る is a Japanese word that I see in every day usage once in a while. Granted, it's not very common, but I do see it. Off the top of my head, I can't think of any other words that use the kanji 亘.

A lot of the kanji in RTK 1 simply aren't used very much at all. Another thing I'm considering doing is distributing a version of the Japanese keywords Anki file, where all of the entries for rarer kanji have been stripped out.

I've been correcting a few of the entries in the spreadsheet. I specifically checked for and corrected those whose example word did not contain the target kanji and those whose hiragana or example sentence did contain the target kanji.

The "Last Updated by" column in the Sentences sheet looked redundant and unused (all cells contained the same name), so I made them refer to the corresponding cell on the Words sheet. I added the "Date Last Updated" column as well, equally linking it to the corresponding column on the other sheet. Which means if you update something on either sheet, fill in date and name on the Words sheet, and the Sentences sheet will automatically be updated.

I have a small problem with the "Word 1 - Andrew" column. Word 1 seems to indicate that this is the word that will end up in the Anki file. But since it's linked to Andrew, the implication is that if there's a better word, it will simply be ignored, as it will be in the "Word 2" column. For example, for 恩, the stand-alone kanji is very rare in my personal experience, while "恩人" is much more common. How do I make 恩人 the first choice? By appeal to a chairman/committee?

wrightak Wrote:So that I'm testing myself on the kanji I want to learn and nothing more. I'll export my Japanese keywords cards and post it as a deck soon.

Hi,

any news about an updated anki deck yet? :-)

亘る is indeed the only "modern" word using 亘, but it's of course an uncommon way to write it. There are two other words using it, both archaic:
亘古 (こうこ) - for ever; from ancient times
連亘 (れんこう) - extending in a row

My personal opinion is that when a kanji is used as seldom as this, it's not really worth caring about japanese keywords, you will probably only run into that kanji in names etc and readings are quite random when it comes to names so it's not worth studying specifically.

I have been using the JRTK anki deck for about 2 months now, and I am at about half of the Kanji. Roughly doing 25 new cards a day.
I do it from hiragana to kanji, because I want to practice my reading. BUT! The problem is that there are often no example sentences. So often a word has a lot more ways of writing it.

Is there a website which gives a native japanese sample sentence for every word, which I could include into the deck?

I am feeling that how I am doing this JRTK deck now it's not too good. I should either add sentences for all cards, OR start doing it from kanji -> hiragana.

What do you guys think?

-Mesqueeb

Mesqueeb Wrote:I do it from hiragana to kanji, because I want to practice my reading. BUT! The problem is that there are often no example sentences. So often a word has a lot more ways of writing it.

Is there a website which gives a native japanese sample sentence for every word, which I could include into the deck?

I am feeling that how I am doing this JRTK deck now it's not too good. I should either add sentences for all cards, OR start doing it from kanji -> hiragana.

What do you guys think?

-Mesqueeb

Which ones are you referring to where there are many ways of writing the same hiragana?

I find that the example sentences on dic.yahoo.co.jp aren't too bad.

I do both kanji->hiragana and hiragana->kanji.

Things like き、きる、しぼう、あめ、よむ、かける、かぜ、じこ、めす、ゆうしゅう、...

Some, like よむ, じこ　and ゆうしゅう become confusing because of having other, usually less common, words with the same reading in the deck, for which there usually is an example sentence. Even if it's possible to think "No example sentence, hence most common meaning", it's in practice easier to just add a short expression.

Like Mesqueeb, I'm halfway through the list, adding on several occasions example sentences or replacing keywords altogether, e.g. to test out the kunyomi. I'm copying my changes to a spreadsheet, which I intend to merge with the google spreadsheet later on.

My principal source is a Seiko electronic dictionary, and other than that google/wikipedia, which is sometimes clumsy and not a guarantee to be 100% correct Japanese, but you usually come up with a better sentence than the "私は", "彼女は" type sentences that form the crux of the dictionary examples.

I don't think adding huge example sentences is really a good idea for the JRTK deck. In my opinion they only serve to help the studier figure out which of several homonyms the keyword is.
Stuff like...
本を＜よむ＞。
テレビを＜みる＞。
手紙を＜かく＞。
..is perfectly adequate I think.

Having anything longer would seriously impact the amount of time required for reviews I think - not simply because of the length itself, but because it potentially has a lot of other unrelated content that the studier might not know. Granted that they will need to know that stuff later on, but I see JRTK as just RTK in Japanese, not an all-around vocab/sentence mining deck.

I've typically been doing what Jarvik7 suggested. Whenever I fail a card because I got the wrong reading (which doesn't happen that often), I add some extra info in the example sentence section.

After all, if you're in a position where you know too many words for one reading (which is great), it shouldn't be difficult for you to add a little context yourself.

Big thanks to Woelpad though for all the work he's been doing on the public spreadsheet. Definitely should be your first point of call...

Jarvik7 Wrote:I don't think adding huge example sentences is really a good idea for the JRTK deck. In my opinion they only serve to help the studier figure out which of several homonyms the keyword is.
Stuff like...
本を＜よむ＞。
テレビを＜みる＞。
手紙を＜かく＞。
..is perfectly adequate I think.

Having anything longer would seriously impact the amount of time required for reviews I think - not simply because of the length itself, but because it potentially has a lot of other unrelated content that the studier might not know. Granted that they will need to know that stuff later on, but I see JRTK as just RTK in Japanese, not an all-around vocab/sentence mining deck.

For the easier words, yes. For the more advanced words, I prefer a sentence to provide a mini-context and show me some actual usage, besides adding some color. I don't mind the extra words that complete the sentence, which, as a rule of thumb, I keep to 2 lines on the Anki review app. They're not the focus of the review, and having them in kanji means it's usually feasible to know/guess their meaning if not their reading, the occasional relookup notwithstanding. That said, I see no point in listing more than one usage for the same word. "気がくるう。時計がくるった。" gets reduced to "気がくるう。" A single meaning is sufficient to serve this deck's purpose.

I only do kana to kanji btw. Kanji to kana I reserve for decks with multiple readings per kanji.

But I also think it just goes faster if you see context. I really think the reviews will go smoother then. Because a Japanese word just out of no where is often very understandable without context, even if there are no other variants of that word, when you say 1 word and you ask someone Japanese what it means, he'll often request a sentence.
I think it's when we just see a word it's very difficult, so I wanted to add sentences to make the reviews faster. I do agree on keeping the sentences short, unless with a short sentence you still are confused.
Thanks a lot for that dictionary with the example sentences!
<3

-Mesqueeb

I agree with wrightak in that there's not much need to have example sentences on every card. I like that the old spreadsheet is very customizable, so I can add sentences when needed. (I hate deleting information on a pre-made card and the 亘 thing took me forever to figure out.) I see the example sentences as a sort of crutch in JRTK, as the keywords are usually very appropriate. I always try to determine the kanji from the keyword before I read the accompanying sentence. I do like some of the sentences to be there, I just don't always pass the card if I need to read them first.

Seems far too difficult to manage for me. While I'm sure I could remember them all, I think it would take at least twice as long as having an english keyword, and I don't know that there's any way I could have continued with the the same vigour for that amount of time without just losing the will to go on. While it seems like a good idea, it would be turning it into a semi RTK2 book. I think Heisig had it right, one should remember them all in the easiest way possible, then tackle the Japanese words.