Not sure if I'll get anybody's attention making this thread, but I wanted to ask anyway. I'm currently working on my 2nd month of Insanity and actually becoming very bored. I hate cardio and how cardio makes me feel, and Insanity is pretty much all cardio. Now that I'm on the 2nd month the videos actually reach 60 minutes in length which, for cardio, is really annoying. In addition to Insanity I go to the gym 3 times a week to lift weights.

I'm already skinny (about 160 pounds) so I'm just looking to tone, get abs, and put on muscle. Basically my goal is to become fit. I'm going to commit to Insanity and actually finish it but I was considering P90X afterwards. Sure P90X has the occasional segments based more on cardio but overall it's more focused towards building muscle than Insanity is concerned.

So have any of you done these?

Insanity is for burning fat and toning your body.
P90x is for adding muscle.

Don't forget P90X2 and Insanity Asylum.
Specifically, what is "annoying" about cardio? Is it too hard?

If you're looking for big muscles, P90X is the way to go.
If you want to melt fat, do Insanity.

225 lb guy
http://[video=youtube]http://www.youtube...dA[/video]

230 lb guy
http://[video=youtube]http://www.youtube...Js[/video]

Woman
http://[video=youtube]http://www.youtube...tI[/video]

Looking around at the 'transformation' videos, I can't find any that aren't by someone selling something. Is there any real evidence that they work? And can you do it free, or do you have to sign up to some extortionate course or buy £100 of dvds?

Actually, if you want to build muscle the best thing you can do is:

1. Barbells: Squats, Deadlifts, Barbell Rows, Powercleans, Bench Press.
2. Eat a LOT. 1g protein per kilo body weight. You will gain fat but the muscle will allow you to burn it off later.

This book is the place to start http://www.amazon.com/Starting-Strength-...409&sr=8-1

If you are a "hard gainer" then GOMAD (gallon of milk a day) may be an option. This is because you really REALLY want to be in a calorie surplus if you want to gain muscle.

Forget about trying to loose fat and gain muscle at the same time, your body is in a completely different catabolic state for those to occur so focusing on one at a time gives much better results.

This is actually very good for burning fat as well, but most people are scared off by the fact that you will gain fat at first. Fact is, if you diet then your metabolic rate crashes so if you eat a few carbs you will store it all as fat.

If you do a barbell program and eat tons you will gain a lot of muscle (with fat), and the muscle increases metabolic rate, resulting in very easy fat loss when you cut back on the diet after reaching muscle goals.

TheVinster Wrote:I'm already skinny (about 160 pounds) so I'm just looking to tone, get abs, and put on muscle. Basically my goal is to become fit.

couple of things:

tone - toning is a myth. there is no such thing as tone. you have muscle and fat. if you want to get more ripped, you need more muscle and less fat. that's all there is to it.

get abs - you need to lose fat (and no, there's no spot reducing. when you lose fat you lose it everywhere on your body and you can't target your belly.)

becoming fit - very vague goal. strength standards? cardio standards? looks? all of the above?

everyone i know that's done p90x and insanity and stuck to it has improved, but mostly because they went from sitting on their couch to committing to a program. almost any program will do that for you. for that matter, everyone i know that's done starting strength has improved in the sports they played. all the people who built their squat got increased verticals.

personally i used to just lift and i got decent at it, but i signed up for filipino martial arts and since then i haven't had the energy to do both. i looked better when i lifted but in terms of cardio i have more endurance now. i keep trying to get back to lifting, but it's also been hard balancing the rest of my hobbies.

lardycake Wrote:If you do a barbell program and eat tons you will gain a lot of muscle (with fat), and the muscle increases metabolic rate, resulting in very easy fat loss when you cut back on the diet after reaching muscle goals.

meh, it's not that easy. =)

@Lardycake you have forgotten military press and push press

Blahah Wrote:Looking around at the 'transformation' videos, I can't find any that aren't by someone selling something. Is there any real evidence that they work? And can you do it free, or do you have to sign up to some extortionate course or buy £100 of dvds?

None of the videos I posted were commercials.
Insanity and P90X are the real deal.

Insanity is the only set of exercises videos I've seen where the people can't handle
it sometimes and need to take a rest. It really is insane.

I only made it 27 minutes into the first Insanity workout and my legs were so sore
I couldn't walk for 4 days! I never felt anything like it before.

There are tons of unofficial transformation videos and reviews on Youtube.

The key concepts behind the workouts are muscle confusion
(P90X) and Max Interval Trainining (Insanity).

Also, the nice thing about Beachbody workouts is that they have a workout calendar.
It tells you which workout to do on which day. There's no thinking or planning necessary.
Just pop in the video and exercise. No need to manage your workout routines or waste time
going to the gym. Do everything at home with minimal equipment.

Yes I'm aware of P90X2 and Asylum. I do have Asylum downloaded for after Insanity (in the case I don't wish to do P90X immediately after). The thing is that I download all of these programs and yeah lots of people not out to sell any products get results. I'm not committing myself to something because of what it can promise in 60 days, I'm doing it to become increasingly more active and healthier in the long-term. Sure I want to gain muscle too but it's more of a thing I want over time and I couldn't care less if it was immediate.

I also have the book on Starting Strength by the way. And as to why I don't like cardio it's just the feeling of it. I hate being out-of-breath, I suppose? I'm actually not sure. I would never completely omit cardio but it's not something I care to focus on.

http://stronglifts.com/ is worth a look too. 5x5 strength building program similar to starting strength. There are lots of good articles on the website about diet/nutrition, weight gain/loss, etc.

Apparently drinking lots of milk (as in.. a gallon a day), is the most simple and straightforward way for "hard-gainers" to put on weight. It wont all be muscle, but some will.

http://stronglifts.com/gomad-milk-squats...in-weight/

TheVinster Wrote:Yes I'm aware of P90X2 and Asylum. I do have Asylum downloaded for after Insanity (in the case I don't wish to do P90X immediately after). The thing is that I download all of these programs and yeah lots of people not out to sell any products get results. I'm not committing myself to something because of what it can promise in 60 days, I'm doing it to become increasingly more active and healthier in the long-term. Sure I want to gain muscle too but it's more of a thing I want over time and I couldn't care less if it was immediate.

I also have the book on Starting Strength by the way. And as to why I don't like cardio it's just the feeling of it. I hate being out-of-breath, I suppose? I'm actually not sure. I would never completely omit cardio but it's not something I care to focus on.

It's OK to not like cardio. There's lots of people out there
with huge muscles but poor cardio and run out of breath easily.
It's all about what your priorities are.

Like everything, endurance training takes time.
It's another kind of fitness training and not everyone likes it.

Anyway, good luck.

Do something fun for your cardio. Like biking, swimming, any team sport, etc. Gym cardio is not fun.

Eikyu Wrote:Do something fun for your cardio. Like biking, swimming, any team sport, etc. Gym cardio is not fun.

All exercises have a cardio component to it. It's just the term has been taken over by (or only attributed to) the Long Slow Distance crowd. Try this little experiment

Find out your max squat (hips going below parallel), bench press (bar going to the chest but not bouncing and to lock out), and dead lift. Great, now figure out what's 40% of each of those weights and put them on three different bars.

Now, fast as you can, do five rounds of 10 reps each of each lift (10x deadlift, 10x squats then 10x bench press). When you're done peeling yourself off the floor in 15 minutes we can discuss cardio.

Of course, this type of workout would be dangerous to attempt the first time in the gym. You need to build up your metabolic conditioning. In addition, you need training to ensure you're doing the lifts correctly. Even then, 50 reps at 40% 1rm is going to take you about 3 to 5 minutes for each lift. You find out your body needs a lot of oxygen when it's moving smaller amounts of weight a lot of times.

@TheVinster
This may not necessarily apply to you, but a lot of people hate cardio when they first start cardio training. However, after 3-4 weeks of training, the same people will often say they love cardio and feel lousy if they skip a day. Try it for at least a month.

Cardio training has plenty of benefits, including better memory and several other cognitive benefits. Although strength training is much more effective at reducing body weight, neglecting cardio (or strength training) is not a good idea.

The problem with cardio for me is that it takes a long time. You have to do at least 20mins and it's better if you go 40+. But skipping it is not a good idea as it's a very important part of fitness. It's more important than strength in most sports.

Anyway, you can check out this site: http://scoobysworkshop.com/cardio/ He has some good tips. Don't be too put off by his appearance.

As for Starting Strength, I'm not a big fan of that anymore. It's good for people who like squats, but for most people, I think you want a more balanced workout. Plus, you can't do squats if you have a bad back.

Eikyu Wrote:The problem with cardio for me is that it takes a long time. You have to do at least 20mins and it's better if you go 40+. But skipping it is not a good idea as it's a very important part of fitness. It's more important than strength in most sports.

Anyway, you can check out this site: http://scoobysworkshop.com/cardio/ He has some good tips. Don't be too put off by his appearance.

As for Starting Strength, I'm not a big fan of that anymore. It's good for people who like squats, but for most people, I think you want a more balanced workout. Plus, you can't do squats if you have a bad back.

If you can't do squats if you have a bad back, how do you go to the toilet or even sit down. Both are squats, just with less weight. The trick is to incrementally add weight that your body can adapt to. Plus, Starting Strength includes all five fundamental lifts: Deadlift, Squat, Bench, Standing Press and the Clean. I'd recommend throwing weighted pull-ups in there personally given their importance in gymnastics and body weight training.

As for cardio, don't ignore the benefits of high intensity interval training (HIIT). Always running slow or doing doing anything slow for long periods just trains your body to be slow. Working in times when you go balls out for 1 to 2 minutes with rests of 3 to 5 minutes will do wonders for whatever long endurance exercise you try (swimming, running, stairs, lifting, plyometrics, etc.)

I agree with you on the Interval training. It's what all the top athletes use. I don't want to get into a debate about squats because I'm not exactly an expert. But I prefer to do other exercises.

Nukemarine Wrote:As for cardio, don't ignore the benefits of high intensity interval training (HIIT). Always running slow or doing doing anything slow for long periods just trains your body to be slow. Working in times when you go balls out for 1 to 2 minutes with rests of 3 to 5 minutes will do wonders for whatever long endurance exercise you try (swimming, running, stairs, lifting, plyometrics, etc.)

To add, be very careful adding HIIT to your running routine. Specifically, do not sprint in long strides on hard surfaces (save that for the track). Instead, increase your turnover (keep the same stride, but increase the steps/minute). Likewise, do not run down stairs. Both are sure-fiire ways to injure yourself.

On another note, I recommend tabatas for HIIT. When I used to do Muay Thai training, the trainers introduced tabatas into the conditioning sessions, and I quickly made gains in my stamina. With tabatas, you can easily mix up various exercises and thereby exercise several different muscle groups.

SammyB Wrote:http://stronglifts.com/ is worth a look too. 5x5 strength building program similar to starting strength. There are lots of good articles on the website about diet/nutrition, weight gain/loss, etc.

Apparently drinking lots of milk (as in.. a gallon a day), is the most simple and straightforward way for "hard-gainers" to put on weight. It wont all be muscle, but some will.

http://stronglifts.com/gomad-milk-squats...in-weight/

whenever i think of stronglifts i think of some guy who just stole starting strength, made a few modifications and threw in a lot of inspirational fluff, called the program his own and now rakes it in.

the only problem i see with SS is that it could take a month or two to learn correct form, so in the meantime you'll be confused on whether to move up or down in weight.

Ahhh... all of this talk is depressing. I have to do PT now for my right oblique. I either strained it, pulled it, or tore it. I haven't been able to work out for 10 days and I'm getting all jittery and cranky. And now that I have PT to do, I probably won't get to work out for another 2-3 weeks at least. *sigh* And I was making such good progress, too.

BTW-- abdominal muscle injuries totally suck. Every time I move, it hurts. Bah.

Stupid lawnmowers. Never doing those again. Bah.

as someone who has been doing freeweights and cardio mainly for about 15 years, I have to say that I find these faddy exercise regimes pretty suspicious. It's basically the same idea as a diet, which is a pretty awful shock to your body. Rather than three-day monking it hard core, why not just consult a trainer on a way to increase the effectiveness of your workout and nutrition in a way that, a year or 2 from now lets say, you can achieve your goals in a healthier, more sustainable manner.

it's not that different from language study in that way I imagine... these goals are really best met by a regular sustainable activity as opposed to binge-purging.

Have you tried jump roping? I just got a jump rope, and I think my ceilings are high enough that I can jump rope while watching TV. Then I can multitask :-).

Though, I have learned to enjoy running. I kind of suck at it, and I hate it when my muscles get tired and I am out of breath, but I love the runner's high afterwards!