Or putting it another way ""As X was happening, Y happened"

Lets have some example sentences:
"As I sat down on the chair to have a cup of cofee, I heard a knock at the door" or
"As I was rushing him to the hospital he died on the day" or
"As he picked up the gun to shoot the thief he was knocked out by a blow on his head".

What is being expressed here is that both actions were not happening at simultaneously since beginning, but when X was happening suddenly Y happened. I don't think ながら can be used here, since that is only possible when both actions are happening simultaneously, both being done by the same subject. e.g "I was standing outside knocking at the door" or "I was eating sush while listening to music". I am correct about ながら right?

I think と (maybe) is used to express the idea I want but have no idea how. Solution of this mystery would be a great help for my Japanese. Thanks everyone.

I think と would probably work here, but probably ～していたら or ～ようとしていたら would be the most common:

いすに座ってコーヒーを飲もうとしていたら、ドアでノックがした。

I've heard that と + a past tense sounds formal or literary, but I don't know if that's true.

There are several expressions like とたん and や否や but some of these are more formal so you may need a native speaker opinion to see which one sounds most natural in speech.

Wow, if you can translates the above sentences or give some other examples that will make things so much more clear.

Not sure if this will help, but you're using "as" to combine 2 separate English grammar points; when and while.

When = short action (use past tense - when.....ed)
while = longer continuous action (use past continuous tense - while X was....ing)

'When' implies event2 immediately follows event1. 'While' implies the two events happened concurrently.

"When I sat down on the chair to have a cup of cofee, I heard a knock at the door"
"While I was rushing him to the hospital, he died"
"When he picked up the gun to shoot the thief, he was knocked out by a blow on his head".

I wonder if Japanese differentiates them?

As yudantaiteki points out, there are various expressions for this in Japanese depending on what you want to say... many more than in English. In situations like this it's probably better to check out the different possibilities to say this and then check with a native speaker what sounds best.

E.g. in the advanced grammar book:

会社のリストラで職を失うのではないかと思うと、気が重いです。

When I think about how I might be laid off because of restructuring at my company, I feel depressed.

Intermediate:

もう少し出かけるところに友達がやって来た。

When I was just about to leave, a friend of mine visited me.

と will serve the purpose, but sound unnatural in many cases.

Quote:もう少し出かけるところに友達がやって来た。

Btw, you could use 出かけようとしたら／出かけようするところへ・に here as well. I read somewhere the ところ often stands in this context ("I was about to ~") with the ～ようとする form.

@JimmySeal What is the exact difference between using たら・ところ in this context? I have read about it in DoIJG, but somewhere else I read, ところ is used to state something that happened uniquely once, like in this type of sentence: 辞書で調べたところ感じの意味がわかった。

@yudantaiteki

Quote:と + a past tense

I thought one is not allowed to use と with past-tense? Am I wrong?

Concerning the と. I had a lot of corrections concerning that on Lang-8, so.. Mostly I found using it like ～見ると／聞くと・・・ E.g. 写真を見ると、びっくりしたよ。 I guess it emphasizes the immediate-ness... Feel like the usage is pretty limited.

Tori-kun Wrote:Concerning the と. I had a lot of corrections concerning that on Lang-8, so.. Mostly I found using it like ～見ると／聞くと・・・ E.g. 写真を見ると、びっくりしたよ。 I guess it emphasizes the immediate-ness... Feel like the usage is pretty limited.

They are correct.
写真を見ると、びっくりしたよ sounds very unnatural.

と is often used to display a seemingly natural, automatic cause-effect relationship.

For example:

When spring comes, it gets warmer.
When I eat hot peppers, my mouth burns.
When those 2 people are in the same room, they fight.
When I drink caffeine, I can't go to sleep.

One eventually seems to automatically trigger the next event by its very nature.

Pictures aren't necessarily something that are known to autmatically make people びっくりした.

You have a few options.

For example, if you want to emphasize the moment you saw the photo, you can say:

写真を見た時、びっくりしました。
The moment I looked at the photo, I was shocked.
NOTE: This kind of statement can add a bit of drama and suspense.

If it's something that happens every time you look at a photo.
写真を見る旅(tabi)、びっくりします。
Every time I look at photo(s), I am surprised.
NOTE: To me, this sounds a little unnatural, but I don't know if it's OK.

I'm sure there are other grammar points you can use,
but 見ると is definitely not the right word to use.

I think what you want to say is:
写真を見た時、びっくりしました。

chamcham Wrote:I'm sure there are other grammar points you can use,
but 見ると is definitely not the right word to use.

I'd probably say ”写真を見てびっくりした。”

見ると definitely sounds wrong to me in that sentence.

zigmonty Wrote:

chamcham Wrote:I'm sure there are other grammar points you can use,
but 見ると is definitely not the right word to use.

I'd probably say ”写真を見てびっくりした。”

見ると definitely sounds wrong to me in that sentence.

Yes, that also works too. Can't believe I missed that.

写真を見た時、びっくりしました。
The moment I looked at the picture, I was shocked.
NOTE: Somewhat dramatic and suspenseful

写真を見てびっくりした。
I looked at the picture and was shocked.
NOTE: Emphasizes the order of events. You saw the picture and then you were shocked.

What about using いる間 ?

I have the following sentences in anki

スミスさんは日本にいる間英語を教えていました。

私がご飯を食べている間に山田さんが来た。

私がご飯を食べている間山田さんはテレビを見ていました。

高橋さんはアメリカにいる間にゴルフを覚えました。

I am surprised that I have provoked the discussion of a rather advanced japanese grammar here. I could not have expected that there would be so many possibilities to express this simple idea. I do not mean to trouble anyone here. The thing is that the books that I have talk about go into a few of the grammar points that you have mentioned, but do not explain the finer distinctions between them.

The reasons I asked this question is because this type of sentence occurs very often in English, espcially in the story telling. I am hereby going to look into the possibilities that you have raised. I thank everyone for their time.

My main emphasis was on と here and did not know there are other ways as well, which I have come across in Nautsume Souseki's work being used in such a way.　The examples are:

"腕組みをして枕元に座っていると、仰向きに寝た女が、静かな声でもう死にますという"
"と思うと、すらりと揺らぐ茎の頂に、心持首を　傾けていた細長い一輪の蕾が、ふっくらと花弁を開いた。"

I know these sentences are too hard, but its the first と in the first sentence and the second と in the second sentence which I expect to be saying "As he was doing X, Y happened". I could be wrong though.

matrixofdynamism Wrote:Or putting it another way ""As X was happening, Y happened"

Lets have some example sentences:
"As I sat down on the chair to have a cup of cofee, I heard a knock at the door" or
"As I was rushing him to the hospital he died on the day" or
"As he picked up the gun to shoot the thief he was knocked out by a blow on his head".

For the first example if you are trying to imply the nuance of "as soon as" or "the very moment that" or "hardly just" you can use 途端　（とたん）。　

椅子に座った途端、ドアのノックを聞きました。　

Translation would be something along the lines of "I had hardly sat down when I heard a door knock", or "As soon as I sat down I heard a door knock".

For your second example it implies something that occurs "along the way". For that you use 途中（とちゅう）.

Example: 病院に行く途中で彼が亡くなった。　 Translation:　He died on the way to the hospital.

As for the third example this simply implies just simple "while" doing something another thing occurred. For this I'm pretty sure you can use the basic 間に construction.

銃に手を伸ばす間に Translation: "While reaching for the gun...."

In summary:

To imply that "as soon as", or "no sooner than" something = 途端
To imply "along the way"＝　途中
To simply imply "while"＝　間に

Hope that helps. Anyone feel free to correct me.

.

activeaero Wrote:

matrixofdynamism Wrote:Or putting it another way ""As X was happening, Y happened"

Lets have some example sentences:
"As I sat down on the chair to have a cup of cofee, I heard a knock at the door" or
"As I was rushing him to the hospital he died on the day" or
"As he picked up the gun to shoot the thief he was knocked out by a blow on his head".

For the first example if you are trying to imply the nuance of "as soon as" or "the very moment that" or "hardly just" you can use 途端　（とたん）。　

椅子に座った途端、ドアのノックを聞きました。　

Translation would be something along the lines of "I had hardly sat down when I heard a door knock", or "As soon as I sat down I heard a door knock".

For your second example it implies something that occurs "along the way". For that you use 途中（とちゅう）.

Example: 病院に行く途中で彼が亡くなった。　 Translation:　He died on the way to the hospital.

As for the third example this simply implies just simple "while" doing something another thing occurred. For this I'm pretty sure you can use the basic 間に construction.

銃に手を伸ばす間に Translation: "While reaching for the gun...."

In summary:

To imply that "as soon as", or "no sooner than" something = 途端
To imply "along the way"＝　途中
To simply imply "while"＝　間に

Hope that helps. Anyone feel free to correct me.

I'm very confident that the first two attempts are correct, but I'm not sure of the last one (「銃に手を伸ばす間に…」). Also, I should add that most of the time I've seen 「途端」 it's been written in hiragana.

matrixofdynamism Wrote:I am surprised that I have provoked the discussion of a rather advanced japanese grammar here. I could not have expected that there would be so many possibilities to express this simple idea.

I think this isn't uncommon when you start off with an English grammatical idea and ask for Japanese equivalents -- there are usually several different options used in different situations. (English has a few choices in this area too: "as", "while", "during"...) Personally I think it's better to try to deal with grammar one Japanese construction at a time rather than trying to look at all the different ways you can express one English grammar construction. If you work gradually through in the order that eg textbooks or JLPT cover things then you tend to get the more common and useful ones first and then can 'fill in the gaps' with the ones you cover later.