[Zgarbas]

So, I was wondering. How do you get the hang of weird fonts? I'm especially stuck with bolded kanji, as seen below. Simple kanjis are easily deciphered, but once they get past a certain stroke number it just looks like a big blotch to me. More handwritteny fonts I can get based on the strokes, but the blotches are killing me. Are they even meant to be read?
(furigana added by fansubbers I think)

I think It' like when someone's not speaking clearly you're brain just fills in the missing parts automatically.

That font isn't bad, you should try reading letters written by Japanese manga artists. I seriously can't even read those...

Mostly you just get used to them...Ever since I read a lot of those pixelated blobs they call kanji in DS games, everything else seems so cleanly written, for the most part. Handwriting takes some getting used to, but after that it's not so bad.

By the way, do fansubbers really add furigana these days? 0_0

[Zgarbas]

ta12121 Wrote:That font isn't bad, you should try reading letters written by Japanese manga artists. I seriously can't even read those...

You mean those really big ones that are stretched out and fit into the background in such a manner that you wouldn't even know it's a kanji at first sight?

I'm not sure if the furigana was the in the original, but it kinda looks like the fonts the fansubbers use =/. This group is pretty meticulous for fansubber standards, so it might just be their thing.

its just like too small kanji on pdfs you just have to guess or ask.

Zgarbas Wrote:

ta12121 Wrote:That font isn't bad, you should try reading letters written by Japanese manga artists. I seriously can't even read those...

You mean those really big ones that are stretched out and fit into the background in such a manner that you wouldn't even know it's a kanji at first sight?

I'm not sure if the furigana was the in the original, but it kinda looks like the fonts the fansubbers use =/. This group is pretty meticulous for fansubber standards, so it might just be their thing.

Those are annoying too but I'm actually talking about how some artists write small background info on character designs and so forth. Some are handwritten and you can barely read it. I'll try to scan a page from the manga I have.

Zgarbas Wrote:So, I was wondering. How do you get the hang of weird fonts? I'm especially stuck with bolded kanji, as seen below. Simple kanjis are easily deciphered, but once they get past a certain stroke number it just looks like a big blotch to me. More handwritteny fonts I can get based on the strokes, but the blotches are killing me. Are they even meant to be read?
(furigana added by fansubbers I think)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v497/F...ll/wtf.png

奪われた自由！
三兄弟に迫る貴族の罠

Just input the furigana first and then select the correct kanji character.
Does your keyboard have Japanese input capability IME installed?

[Zgarbas]

I can get them if there's furigana attached, but without it I'm lost. I have an IME pad(if that's what you're referring to), but the kanjis are too blotchy for me to know where to start =/.

Zgarbas Wrote:I can get them if there's furigana attached, but without it I'm lost. I have an IME pad(if that's what you're referring to), but the kanjis are too blotchy for me to know where to start =/.

No, IME pad is not what I'm referring to...

"Using a Japanese Keyboard"
http://www.longcountdown.com/2007/04/15/...-keyboard/

If there are other "blotchy" kanji that you've difficulty getting it, do post them here. Whenever I find the time, shall help out to decipher it. And I hardly come across Manga or Anime stuff with "weird" kanji compared to those I encounter in Japanese classical literature books.

It just comes from experience. Xわれた is going to have to be some verb ending in う, and from the general shape plus context you can pick it up.

yudantaiteki Wrote:It just comes from experience. Xわれた is going to have to be some verb ending in う, and from the general shape plus context you can pick it up.

In those lines where there some hiragana after the "blotchy" kanji or if there is a video to see, it is easy to tell which kanji. However, in the case of very old books where the condition is terrible and that archaic kanji are common in those days, it's another issue altogether.

Not really -- it still just depends on your familiarity with the language and what's being said. I have to consult such books for my research and it's basically the same principle in deciphering the text.

yudantaiteki Wrote:Not really -- it still just depends on your familiarity with the language and what's being said. I have to consult such books for my research and it's basically the same principle in deciphering the text.

Yes, experience and familiarity with the language are necessary. At times, further research (by books) and/or consulting the experts in their specialize field of works is another way which helps to decipher the text.

Currently, I use this site-link to cross-check against Japanese old font-type.
http://shimapucchi.com/data/qji/

If you know of any other useful site, please post it later. Much appreciated.

eslang Wrote:Currently, I use this site-link to cross-check against Japanese old font-type.
http://shimapucchi.com/data/qji/

If you know of any other useful site, please post it later. Much appreciated.

That's not an example of a difficult font or calligraphy, but of 旧字体 kyuujitai (old forms) vs. shinjitai 新字体 (new forms).

eslang Wrote:

yudantaiteki Wrote:Not really -- it still just depends on your familiarity with the language and what's being said. I have to consult such books for my research and it's basically the same principle in deciphering the text.

Yes, experience and familiarity with the language are necessary. At times, further research (by books) and/or consulting the experts in their specialize field of works is another way which helps to decipher the text.

Currently, I use this site-link to cross-check against Japanese old font-type.
http://shimapucchi.com/data/qji/

If you know of any other useful site, please post it later. Much appreciated.

I use sites like that if I need to check an old form kanji, but for 変体仮名 and 崩し字 I use paper dictionaries -- I have two small booklets for kana and sometimes I use 異体字 dictionaries or kuzushi-kanji dictionaries from the library.

Now, none of that helps with old books where the print quality is bad or the paper has degraded or browned/yellowed...then you're back to just context.

KanjiDevourer Wrote:

eslang Wrote:Currently, I use this site-link to cross-check against Japanese old font-type.
http://shimapucchi.com/data/qji/

If you know of any other useful site, please post it later. Much appreciated.

That's not an example of a difficult font or calligraphy, but of 旧字体 kyuujitai (old forms) vs. shinjitai 新字体 (new forms).

Huh? Where did you get the notion of difficult font or calligraphy?
I think you may have misinterpreted the discussion here.

Zgarbas had some difficulty with "blotchy" fonts (i.e. weird fonts in his context) from One Piece and I simply chip in to put up the kanji fonts where he/she cannot decipher.

Did I mention about difficult font/calligraphy when I posted that link?
No! As indicated above... I wrote: Currently, I use this site-link to cross-check against Japanese old font-type. Of course, I know that link is about 旧字体 kyuujitai (old forms) vs. shinjitai 新字体 (new forms).

IF you have misinterpreted or misread old font-type as difficult font/calligraphy, what can I say?

Please take the time to read through the thread once again before formulating your own interpretation.

yudantaiteki Wrote:

eslang Wrote:

yudantaiteki Wrote:Not really -- it still just depends on your familiarity with the language and what's being said. I have to consult such books for my research and it's basically the same principle in deciphering the text.

Yes, experience and familiarity with the language are necessary. At times, further research (by books) and/or consulting the experts in their specialize field of works is another way which helps to decipher the text.

Currently, I use this site-link to cross-check against Japanese old font-type.
http://shimapucchi.com/data/qji/

If you know of any other useful site, please post it later. Much appreciated.

I use sites like that if I need to check an old form kanji, but for 変体仮名 and 崩し字 I use paper dictionaries -- I have two small booklets for kana and sometimes I use 異体字 dictionaries or kuzushi-kanji dictionaries from the library.

I used some of these paper dictionaries 異体字解読字典, くずし字用例辞典, 広辞苑, Japanese Character Dictionary With Compound Lookup Via Any Kanji to refer and check against with, to "decipher the text" or kanji word.

More pertinent to my studies is at which point or period (時代） in time, certain font-types was used and what (event/incident) might have caused the change to use another kanji font in replacement of the previously (common?/popular?) kanji font of that era.

When I find the "eureka" moment, it is most rewarding and satisfying feeling -- somehow from the wonderful development or usage of kanji through the different passage of time -- I discover exciting new frontier.

I think you know or have come across this well-known kanji at 龍安寺. 　☆美しい日本語~！

yudantaiteki Wrote:Now, none of that helps with old books where the print quality is bad or the paper has degraded or browned/yellowed...then you're back to just context.

After asking some experts about the different usage of 二束三文 and 二足三文, and the best answer I can gather thus far, is as follows:

日本では昔、下駄を数える単位を片方で１足と数えていた名残りに関係するお話として紹介します。あまり価値のないもののたとえで「二束三文」と言うことばがありますが、これは、当時の安いものを言い表したもので、”下駄の鼻緒説”と草鞋の鼻緒説”とあります。

①下駄の鼻緒説：鼻緒は消耗品であるため安いはなおを挿げ替えて大切にはいておりました。以前は、履物を数える単位が片方で1足と数えられていました。（明治以後洋風に両方足1セットで1足と数えるようになりましたが）このはなを2足を三文で販売する行商がいたんだそうです。「２足で～三文ﾝ～」の掛け声でね。

②草鞋の鼻緒説：草鞋のはなおは、早く言えば藁縄で安いものなので２束で三文の値段で販売していた。これも行商で、掛け声は同じ「２束で～三文ﾝ～」と言って売っていたそうです。

徒然なるままに、お話してまいりました。長くてどうもすみません。この単純な木のベースと鼻緒の単純な組み合わせの履物ですが、そのバリエーションは無限大であることをお伝えしたかったのです。

With the recent piece that I'm working on, the likelihood of the 武士 class during 江戸時代, and putting it into context, the usage of 二足三文 looks more like it. What do you think?

Oh yes, if you happen to come across any interesting information about もののぶ 【武士】, (preferably something tangible like an artifact) please keep me posted or via email.

And I want to say, it has been a meaningful exchange with you - Thank You.
　

eslang Wrote:IF you have misinterpreted or misread old font-type as difficult font/calligraphy, what can I say?

Please take the time to read through the thread once again before formulating your own interpretation.

You seem quite offended, how curious. I misunderstood your words indeed, sorry for that. I only interpreted your words in the context of the thread - which I read quite thoroughly thank you. And thanks for the information in this thread.

KanjiDevourer Wrote:

eslang Wrote:IF you have misinterpreted or misread old font-type as difficult font/calligraphy, what can I say?

Please take the time to read through the thread once again before formulating your own interpretation.

You seem quite offended, how curious. I misunderstood your words indeed, sorry for that. I only interpreted your words in the context of the thread - which I read quite thoroughly thank you. And thanks for the information in this thread.

No idea how it was perceived as "quite offended", I'm equally puzzled and curious. In any case, I don't mean to be rude. My bad, if the reply somehow turned into that direction.

If I may ask, your user-name KanjiDevourer is pretty 面白い and "eye-catching", is there a Kanji word for it? Any interesting story or reason behind this user-name? My interest is pique.

eslang Wrote:No idea how it was perceived as "quite offended", I'm equally puzzled and curious. wink In any case, I don't mean to be rude. My bad, if the reply somehow turned into that direction.

If I may ask, your user-name KanjiDevourer is pretty 面白い and "eye-catching", is there a Kanji word for it? Any interesting story or reason behind this user-name? My interest is pique.

No problem, likewise! Alas, there is no more to my avatar than it's randomness.

For the record, the fansubbers didnt add the furigana. One Piece just uses furigana with almost everything.

We could always add different fonts and learn them via Anki (add audio and your set to master how to read different fonts or at least become really familiar with them)