I am aware that many people who study Japanese and Chinese are into martial arts. My personal opinion is that they are nonsense and MMA (mixed martial arts) has shown this. I think disciplines such as Aikido and Karate would not be effective against a real-world attacker and are fake though I hold Mas Oyama in high esteem and think Antonio Inoki and Kazushi Sakuraba are awesome.

I know longer train seriously but grapple once or twice a week as well as having been ridiculously strong.

If I had my partner back to support me I would be investing my time in something like this http://www.fightsurvival.com/ as well as doing MMA.

What does everyone else think of the traditional Japanese/Chinese martial arts?

It depends on why you want to do it and who you're learning it from. I've never done karate. I do Tae Kwon Do, which is technically Korean, but was heavily influenced by Japanese martial arts during the Japanese occupation. My current instructor originally trained in Shotokan under Gichin Funakoshi before going on to train South Korean soldiers in TKD and Hapkido during the Korean War. I eventually want to get into Hapkido, which focuses on grappling, but they mix it into the TKD curriculum to a lesser extent as well. That being said, I've had instructors in the past who were not quite as good, and it can make a huge difference.

The question here is what do you define "a real-world attacker" as? I've never had any serious encounters, but I have taken people to the ground from time to time. I'm not too worried if it came to hand to hand combat. I'm tall, quick and fairly strong. (A powerlifting routine like stronglifts or starting strength is great for beginners.)

If you're talking about someone with a gun or a knife, then you'd want to get into something specific to survival like what you posted. A friend of mine does Krav Maga. I tried it, but I didn't like that a few too many techniques ended with groin attacks... I guess it's effective, but it's not something I want to spend my free time practicing. Instead, I just practice the specific gun and knife disarms he knows without taking actual classes. I also teach him the disarms I know.

To simply say MMA isn't effective in real life situations is a bit of an oversimplification. It depends on what you train in, your conditioning and your skill level. Here's an article from not too long ago that helps make this point.

Mugger picks wrong victim: MMA fighter
http://www.suntimes.com/9261611-417/mugg...champ.html

i have been doing some tai chi recently. it helps improve my focus and mind-body connection. helps move the 'qi' around. it even improves my kanji learning, because i am moving around and stretching and learning to focus my mind of the present. i've read that physical activity and exercise helps maximize focus/results/time efficiency when studying.
i am recovering from an ankle sprain so i can't do any more intense martial arts than tai chi right now. i really want to start doing aikido to build muscle strength, posture, discipline, healthy habits, endurance, respect for my body, endless other things. i rarely think about doing these things to win a fight. i try to avoid fights. i think the culture of mutual respect that is encouraged by traditional martial arts can build confidence and respectful energy that could keep you out of fights by not sending anyone a weird vibe. no one wins in a fight.

HonyakuJoshua Wrote:I am aware that many people who study Japanese and Chinese are into martial arts. My personal opinion is that they are nonsense and MMA (mixed martial arts) has shown this. I think disciplines such as Aikido and Karate would not be effective against a real-world attacker and are fake (...)

(At the risk of starting a very boyish discussion...)

Absolutely, especially if real-world attacker is defined as someone who's been in fights before and who is willing to do everything necessary to knock you out or strangle you.

Martial arts are much more a form of physical and mental exercise. Japanese martial arts as we know them evolved during the Edo period when the country was at peace and few people had any practical fighting experience. Similar for Chinese martial arts (which includes Tai Chi) which were not really aimed for fights at close quarters. They're totally form over substance. Even Kendo, as much as I like it, is totally artificial. You're supposed to hit precisely the spots where traditional armor best protects your opponent.

My hunch is your experience in the real world was much like mine: Many, perhaps most fights end up on the ground very quickly. 柔術 and Aikido's locks and limited ground-fighting techniques are perhaps marginally useful there, but nothing like Gracie Ju-jutsu and later developments.

That said, I wouldn't want to miss the years when I did first Taekwon-do and then Kickboxing. It teaches you mental strength, you learn how to control yourself when someone is hitting you, and you get incredibly fit. That's useful in real life, but not the techniques taught themselves, because they're meant to fit within a narrow set of rules, unlike real fights.

You might enjoy this book by the English guy who enrols in the Tokyo riot police training course... http://www.amazon.com/Angry-White-Pyjama...0688175376

@Irixmark

My real world experience - i fought on the street intermittently and was hospitalized etc. I moved to Liverpool, one of the most dangerous cities in Europe and began powerlifting. I learnt that *most* streetfighters use steroids and that most traditional techniques won't work on a juice head.

I tried MMA and someone who now fights in the UFC struggled with me which caused the coach to yell "are you still f*****G around with *him* are you?!"

I then went to CQB with one of the top guys in the UK who I won't name drop. I stopped going cos a bouncer grassed me up after In challenged him to fight (which was stupid of me.) I lent a guy angry white pajamas at the club but never got it back cos i didn't go back - every story has a moral.

@Tashippy I define a real world attacker as somebody who knows how to attack somebody and won't be knocked down with a feather.

@ I will say here and now that I think woman's self defence without a weapon is useless and any class advertising this should be illegal.

Guess we're on the same page then. Perhaps the best analogy to martial arts is fencing... or perhaps that is a martial art in fact.

Irixmark Wrote:Martial arts are much more a form of physical and mental exercise. Japanese martial arts as we know them evolved during the Edo period when the country was at peace and few people had any practical fighting experience. Similar for Chinese martial arts (which includes Tai Chi) which were not really aimed for fights at close quarters. They're totally form over substance. Even Kendo, as much as I like it, is totally artificial. You're supposed to hit precisely the spots where traditional armor best protects your opponent.

I disagree.

While there was no open warfare in Edo-period Japan, it was still an incredibly violent place by today's standards and people studying martial arts at that time knew very well that they were studying a system designed to protect themselves and to kill other people.

The whole artificial-ness in traditional martial arts that you bring up only starts after Japan modernizes, outlaws dueling, and rids itself of the samurai.

Irixmark Wrote:Guess we're on the same page then. Perhaps the best analogy to martial arts is fencing... or perhaps that is a martial art in fact.

You'd probably kill me in a fight. I have spent the last two years walking around like Ryder from the Taking of Pelham 123. I am professionally successful but physically a mess. I think if you are not physically fit you are NOT able to defend yourself.

HonyakuJoshua Wrote:

Irixmark Wrote:Guess we're on the same page then. Perhaps the best analogy to martial arts is fencing... or perhaps that is a martial art in fact.

You'd probably kill me in a fight. I have spent the last two years walking around like Ryder from the Taking of Pelham 123. I am professionally successful but physically a mess. I think if you are not physically fit you are NOT able to defend yourself.

Yeah... or you could live in a civilised country where dying because you're "not able to defend yourself" is way down on the probable causes of death list.

HonyakuJoshua, a lot of your posts on here seem to be centred on your violent past. Also your Facebook openly lists your job as "intimidating people" and "fighting", and on your Japanese language blog you pubically talk about wanting to kill your female Japanese mentor with a kitchen knife (!!)

What the hell man? Not to be rude, but..you come across as a bit of a psycho. For your own sake turn it down a notch or two..some things are best left private..

As for martial arts; the clue is in the "arts" part of the name. You're learning an ancient skill and along with that hopefully discipline, fitness and gaining confidence. In the real world the best form of defence is to just walk away (and if that's not an option, then RUN )

aphasiac Wrote:HonyakuJoshua, a lot of your posts on here seem to be centred on your violent past. Also your Facebook openly lists your job as "intimidating people" and "fighting", and on your Japanese language blog you pubically talk about wanting to kill your female Japanese mentor with a kitchen knife (!!)

What the hell man? Not to be rude, but..you come across as a bit of a psycho. For your own sake turn it down a notch or two..some things are best left private..

As for martial arts; the clue is in the "arts" part of the name. You're learning an ancient skill and along with that hopefully discipline, fitness and gaining confidence. In the real world the best form of defence is to just walk away (and if that's not an option, then RUN )

I don't have "fighting" on my 'jobs' on Facebook, and I also have a picture of myself with a hachimaki lifting a dumb bell. Feel free to add me. I just think the traditional martial arts are nonsense - I have been out drinking since nine pm and don't think I could defend myself against a drunk, let alone an assailant as I am a cigarette smoking physical wreck - many traditional martial artists think I could. I think this is nonsense.

This is the same ole debate of who will is stronger -- someone who boxes, or someone who practices karate. Nearly everyone will base their decision from a fight they have witnessed. The truth is that it all depends on the individual who is fighting. I know of many karate masters who would kill an average boxer and vise-versa.

I personally haven't gotten into the MMA crap since it's too much like the WWF. Go weightlift for a couple of years, get some tattoos and a funky haircut and you'll be nationally ranked.

Anyway, the only way to see the truth about a certain style of martial arts is to go visit some dojos and train. Each style and each sensei teaches radically different techniques. You can't make assumptions about every martial arts style in the world based on someone you've seen on TV who just happens to purchase a karate suit and enters a local MMA tournament.

Norman Wrote:I personally haven't gotten into the MMA crap since it's too much like the WWF. Go weightlift for a couple of years, get some tattoos and a funky haircut and you'll be nationally ranked.

I don't agree with this. The Nationally ranked MMA guys in most developed countries are top athletes. Two years of weightlifting would not get you where they are.

You are probably correct. As mentioned, I don't watch MMA hardly at all. However, I have seen some serious mismatches between people who don't belong in the ring versus top fighters. I have also seen the same in K-1. This is something that is not common in professional boxing, for instance. The licensing and ranking system seems to be more established. But, I guess these are just the growing pains of a newer sport with less of a pool of fighters. I imagine it will get better as it gets more and more popular.

zigmonty Wrote:Yeah... or you could live in a civilised country where dying because you're "not able to defend yourself" is way down on the probable causes of death list.

Indeed, moving to such a civilized country is what HonyakuJoshua has just done.

[Zgarbas]

HonyakuJoshua Wrote:I moved to Liverpool, one of the most dangerous cities in Europe

Aside from the fact that the UK doesn't have remarkably high violent crime rates (placed 13th on homicide rates in the EU alone, so not in comparison to truly dangerous places), Liverpool is average on general crime per capita areas in the UK. It's not even in the top 5. It's ranked really high on drug use, but that's about it.

If that's the most dangerous place in Europe I wouldn't want your opinion on Albania.

Zgarbas that's because drug gangs and people in general don't report crime to the police because of Liverpool's history. There is more crime here than other places, its just not reported. Many will not report drug dealers for fear of reprisal.

Maybe it wouldn't be so dangerous if you hadn't gone seeking it.

Otherwise your statement "one of the most dangerous cities in Europe" makes me lol.

tbh the guy i used to train with who i wont name drop used it in a book he wrote.

Irixmark Wrote:Martial arts are much more a form of physical and mental exercise. Japanese martial arts as we know them evolved during the Edo period when the country was at peace and few people had any practical fighting experience. Similar for Chinese martial arts (which includes Tai Chi) which were not really aimed for fights at close quarters. They're totally form over substance. Even Kendo, as much as I like it, is totally artificial. You're supposed to hit precisely the spots where traditional armor best protects your opponent.

I have been doing kendo now for a year or so, thus my opinions are most likely biased.

Yes, In kendo you only hit in three (actually four if you include tsuki) areas. This is primarily historical -- when different schools of training met, they did not want to give away their secrets, thus agreed on three basic targets.

As for martial arts, I consider it mostly an art, though it is quite tough with regards to training. My reasoning for doing kendo are primarily to learn about myself. The act of sparing in kendo are quite simple, but to learn how to excel at it takes more than just repetition - you need to break down barriers in your own mind. Reading miyamoto musashi's book of five rings (五輪書) might be useful. However, at that point it begins to start to look like religion. This is where I am at...

I think any martial arts training that makes you physically stronger, faster and fitter is going to make you perform better in a fight (assuming no weapons), whether the specific 'moves' are of any practical benefit or not. And that goes for women and men. Doing stuff like pushups, gymnastics, yoga, swimming, athletics, rock climbing, snowboarding etc will improve your chances in a fight. An overweight out of shape man will get their arse kicked by a physically active woman.

nadiatims Wrote:I think any martial arts training that makes you physically stronger, faster and fitter is going to make you perform better in a fight (assuming no weapons), whether the specific 'moves' are of any practical benefit or not. And that goes for women and men. Doing stuff like pushups, gymnastics, yoga, swimming, athletics, rock climbing, snowboarding etc will improve your chances in a fight. An overweight out of shape man will get their arse kicked by a physically active woman.

I would disagree with the exercise part - most people I know OF who attack people on the street are on cocaine and other drugs that give them a ridiculously high pain threshold. I think the ONLY LEGAL way to get able to defend yourself against these people is with MMA or combatives like I listed above and that physical fitness ALONE will not prepare you for most real world assailants. You need the experience of physical contact, spit in your face, an ugly tatooed thug with bad breath breathing and sweating on you etc. If you haven't experienced this in the gym, believe me, it will shock you in real life and the shock of being sworn at/spat at/pushed could make you freeze up.

I agree with you that most overweight out of shape men will get their arse kicked by a physically active woman but know of several guys who smoke and are fat but "can have a fight". By this I mean they practise techniques and are used to kicking the **** out of people as well as having grown up in rough environments. If i was a woman I would be training in MMA and combatives to defend myself and think that most of these Woman's self defence courses are serious nonsense that could easily get a woman killed. I think with a few months training in MMA/combatives and physical fitness most women could defend themselves against most male attackers.

If you don't want to get attacked on the street just don't go to dodgy places and make sure you can run fast. This thread is bizarre.

caivano Wrote:If you don't want to get attacked on the street just don't go to dodgy places and make sure you can run fast. This thread is bizarre.

The guy lives in the most dangerous city in Europe.

Seriously, I think the bad rap that martial arts has gotten is from the dance routine known as kata. It is essentially a manner of perfecting form, but it is not in itself the hard and soul of the art of fighting. Many dojos teach kata at first, and those who drop out after a few short months are left with an impression that this is it. They go out and try to fight, with knowing only some basic kata, and get their butts beat. Of course, everyone will know that they "studied karate" since beginners often brag. It's the masters who are silent. I had a world renowned karate master as a student in an English class I taught. I didn't know about his martial arts background (9th degree black belt) until years later when I happened to drop by his dojo by accident.

Norman Wrote:The guy lives in the most dangerous city in Europe.

I never said that.

Interesting story about the karate master.