http://www.productivity501.com/how-to-me...-text/294/

The short of it is, basically reading aloud or studing the phrase you want to memorize and taking the first letter out of every word and trying to remember each word in that order.

I haven't studied Japanese since last year. I made it to Kanji 1500 something and stopped. I still haven't finished Kore 2000, and am still procrastnating on my Anki decks and phrasebook I brought in November. I still listen to music now and then but I haven't been immerising myself in Japanese how I used to. And it's driving me crazy.

I can't seem to be able to learn or concentrate on my reviews in Anki because I'm sick of learning and not actually being able to retain what I'm learning. I told myself I would just focus on finishing RTK from the start and drilling my phrasebook into my memory. I figure I should start from the ground up and at least learn to communicate in the langage better, or at least think in it again.

The phrasebook I have is The Ultimate Japanese Phrasebook: 1800 Sentences for Everyday Use. I plan on going through reading it and saying each phrase alound while reviewing the sample deck in Anki, then going through each phrase, writing out the first character of each word and recalling it that way.

I dunno what else to do. I can't seem to finish any of my books and I don't want to just flat out quit learning. I've been trying to learn Japanese since 2007 and still only know enough to get me by on a tourist trip.

please accept this advice as empathy and not that I'm being patronizing... but you don't have the focus right now to do this. maybe later things will be different...

if you can't get through RTK or keep up with anki reviews I think the enormous nature of this project will end up in a Sisyphus-like pattern of self-flagellating binge-and-purge behavior that is both unproductive and great for generating negative energy.

you don't need to know japanese. if it's not inherently interesting enough to make the work easy and fun, it will be a long awful slog that could drag into a decade or more... at which point there are many more positive and useful things that you could be doing in your life with that energy.

http://www.alljapaneseallthetime.com/blo...earning-it

What is your goal? How does this book help you achieve that? What could better help me achieve that?

Those are the things you need to ask yourself.

If your goal is to read manga, then you should start reading manga. The easy ones are within your grasp if you know kana and anything at all about Japanese.

If your goal is to talk to people, you should be studying a few phrases that let you do so and then getting a Skype partner. Preferably one who is pretty good at English and can help you along. Later, you'll want to find one who is bad at English and will force you to use your Japanese to help them along.

If your goal is simply to learn Japanese, I'm afraid you've already lost the battle. Learning for the sake of learning is the hardest, most useless thing imaginable. You need to actually use your skills to cement them in.

The reason you can't learn those phrases is because they don't mean anything to you. You aren't actually in the situation for them, and you can't (or don't) imagine yourself using them. You're trying to rote-memorize things, and that is the worst possible way to learn.

Well, in all honestly I started learning Japanese when I got my copy of Pokemon Diamond back in 2006. I had used that as an excuse to start learning Japanese. Got some grammar books, some of the Japanese in Mangaland series, some other serious textbooks and took a little Pimslur.

Over that time I started importing games in Japanese and thought that if I knew how to communicate in Japanese, it would be easier to pick up vocab. To an extent, that did help me.

Though in the past year I haven't really studied any Japanese because I haven't really been interested in the Japanese games I did buy. I can still remember how to get through them and understand the stories if I read through them, but I just don't feel like playing them as much as I used to.

So yeah, I dunno. There definitely ARE other things I could be doing but I hate to just drop something COMPLETELY I've been at for half a decade or so. Then again, I guess I'm just not having any fun in it anymore.

I draw and videogame as a hobby. Well, more than hobbies I suppose, they are part of who I am. I don't play Pokemon in Japanese much anymore and don't even go to Lang 8 anymore as well.

I read that article and it's hilarious, though it's like looking at the writing all over the wall, lol. I want to do stuff in Japanese every now and then, but just tired of learning. I feel I haven't been making the most of the time I did spend learning it and possible haven't been doing it in the most optimal way.

There's no need to drop it completely. I study for about 30-45 minutes a week. The rest of the time, I'm doing one of my many hobbies. Sometimes that means reading manga in Japanese, or writing on Lang-8, or watching anime (with e-subs, still). Sometimes.

Don't feel pressured to study hard-core. Do what you feel you want to, and that's it. My 30-45 minutes a week is spent on iKnow.jp learning vocab. I don't study grammar except when I come across something I want to know, and then I look it up. I'd hardly call it studying. When I'm reading, I almost never use a dictionary and usually opt to remain ignorant of the word. When I see a word after having studied it, though, I usually know it.

Life's too big to worry about studying. Just go have fun with the language and your mind will take care of the rest.

Ok, how exactly should I go about studing in a short amount of time? As in the best way to maximize that time? I know it's different for different people but I can't seem to find a good grove to work in. Do you think the method I posted would help? Only way to find out would be to actually DO it and find out myself I suppose.

I do have some strategy guides I need to finish reading. I could make a more concentrated effort to finish those, and just use my study time to just look up words I don't know and ditch the SRS. I DO watch anime sometimes though, but it's only once or twice a week.

PkmnTrainerAbram Wrote:I don't want to just flat out quit learning.

Why?
Simply put, and probably you already know it, if you don't have enough motivation to learn the language, quit it... BUT there's one side to consider, that is, maybe there's something else in your life that burns your energy and leaves you short of patience to learn anything, think about it.

Edit:
@dtcamero Nice limk If only I could get my eyes on that quote in the end 6 months ago...
“There is no such thing as discipline. There is only love…You are the result of what you love most.”
Had to realize it recently the hard way!

Edit2 (I read you other posts):
Isn't there anything that you enjoy that can be at your level in Japanese? For example, Manga or games other than the ones you bought?
Maybe when you start doing something you enjoy and understand most of it, and you stumble upon something new, then you can look it in a dictionary or read about the use of that new particle, just to give you a better understanding of what you enjoy. Maybe at that point SRS becomes more enjoyable since it contains fun stuff.

Make sure to watch this:

Wishing you the best.

Efficient study is different from person to person. For me, that means using iKnow and leaving the rest to fate. I didn't find anything else that worked for me. Others on here have drastically different tactics. I recommend trying things that seem like they'd be fun and productive and see how it goes.

I feel like I learned the most when I used Iknow myself, but I haven't used it in years. I heard you have to pay for it now?

Maybe I should go back to that instead of using Anki to SRS. I certianly don't need to drill everyday and it's already set in a format that makes it easy to hop on the computer and just goof off with it whenever like Facebook/etc.

Edit: I'll check that link out later undead saif. I really should get back to just having fun in this langage.

Thanks everyone for being flat out honest. I was thinking the same thing, but I felt I was just being lazy instead of realizing I was running myself into the ground. I just need to put this on the backburner and focus more other things in my life.

Yeah it went pay, unfortunately. I guess I can't really blame them, but they did a lot of other stupid things at the same time, like kill the API and the community lists. Ugh. Oh well. I still think it's worth the money, even if only barely.

the KOOHII rikaichan version can be configured to allow imports into Anki cards with the vocab and sentence which would help to get more phrases through exposure via reading more and importing it all in. idk if that helps anyone but eeh who knows =/

Ok, I looked at that Youtube video and I think I'll be trying that Gold List method.

I've decided that Sundays will be my day for Japanese. I'll read my game books on break and write down words I need to look up later at night. SRS or write down 10-15 phrases and translations at night from my phrasebook and just forget about them. And look at TV during the week, IF I feel like it. I find that if I focus on doing 1 hobby a day and going at it fully, I can get alot done.

I was talking to a co-worker today and it came up in conversation on weather I still studied Japanese as I spent 30 minutes reading 5 pages(shame on me) in my book. Told him I haven't done anything in it in two months in it so I stopped actively studying. He asked why and I said I wasn't doing anything in it and suggested I do something in it every day(like I haven't done that before). Well I listen to Japanese music almost everyday but it doesn't really count, lol.

I don't watch TV or anime much aside from Hunter X Hunter and Pokemon every week now. I'm hardly into dramas, but I can get into stuff like CSI if it interests me. Any shows like that in Japanese? And don't say Detective Conan.

Do what you like to do the most, getting exposed to the language a lot will make you encounter words over and over, which is another way of memorizing words.

In that video, I liked how he got this idea across: Many ways (to learn a language) work, but the most effective one is the one you enjoy the most.

We're probably not supposed to push other sites here, but maybe you could try iKnow.com in kanji mode. That would give you phrases and listening, and seeing the kanji could prick your curiosity. ('Course, maybe that's what you meant by Kore 2000, since that is an iKnow thing . . .) Just trying to help. I also agree with the person who suggested a much smaller weekly study goal. You have to enjoy the process of learning Japanese, I mean, when I studied at Middlebury one summer, the head of the department himself (Japanese, as were all the teachers) carried around a phrase notebook for Japanese!! So, I mean if educated Japanese continue to study it all their lives, of course we will too!!

PkmnTrainerAbram Wrote:I don't watch TV or anime much aside from Hunter X Hunter and Pokemon every week now. I'm hardly into dramas, but I can get into stuff like CSI if it interests me. Any shows like that in Japanese? And don't say Detective Conan.

i think the language used in cop shows is generally more difficult than in other dramas, but there are planty of good ones if you're into that.

Here's some off the top of my head:
* BOSS
* Zettai Reido
* Bloody Monday
* Galileo
* Mr Brain
* Tokyo Dogs

also try Liar Game, just cos it's awesome. You might also like Kurosagi.

If you type these in google it should come up with a synopsis so you can work out if you're interested in any of these...

[s0apgun]

This seems perfect for this thread.

Your name can't be more delicious

s0apgun Wrote:

This seems perfect for this thread.

Ugh. When he says that you "can't learn Japanese from anime" I assume he means only watching it from time to time, with English subs, and relying on only that for the entire language acquisition process, but otherwise what he says is basically that you have to work your ass off and study as if you would have a gun pointing at you.

I much prefer Steve's videos, or this one.

I feel I need to post again in this old thread after little more than a year from it. If this is against the rules I am sorry.

I made the choice myself that if I could not finish RTK this time I would simply drop Japanese from my life. At the time I was 29. I turned 30 about a month ago. I believe I started when I was 24-25 years old.

Turns out I finished it in little over 3 months and learned about 700 vocab words in little over a month. I don't even care about how many reviews I get right anymore, I just do what I can in 30 mins as fast as I can and that's that. I listen to Japanese when I can. I read when I can, speed reading even. I am currently not following a textbook as right now, I have more important dreams in my life to worry about. I only wish I didn't neglect my drawing so much doing the first 3 months time, but you live and learn. I just now watched Saint Seiya Warriors of the Last Holy Battle with no subs and pretty much got the gist of what was going on. Even if I couldn't understand all the vocab I knew where the words end and began. It's something.

I wish I had learned how to manage my time better in my mid 20s when I started. My mother got sick and passed and I had to give up some things, but even worse my attitude towards things at the time didn't help. Fretting over "failing at Japanese" didn't help. I felt like the past 2 years have been spent building up my ideal self after stumbling midway.

I dunno what the point of this post is but I have to get it out. While I don't regret taking up Japanese, and I feel that the last 4-5 years haven't been a total waste due to trying to get it back on track in the last two and getting goals done, I do feel that I haven't been living my late young adulthood the best way I could have. I'm mad at myself for that.

Sorry for the rant guys but I need to get this out. The past 2 years has been a huge wake up call and these weeks after my birthday have been filled with a sense of clarity of happiness and deep fear I haven't felt in quite some time since my last wake up call at 15.

Not really sure if it's breaking the rules either, but it is at least a really nice example of the power of attitude in respect to language acquisition.

I'm sorry to hear about your mother. That's certainly not going to help your study.

I feel like from a lot of your other posts, you compare yourself to others on this site too much, and that is detrimental to your progress. Remember, most users here are in high school or university age. Both you and I are a fair bit older. So it's bound to take longer, things won't stick in your head as easily, and your brain isn't as plastic. Like everything else people study, different people pick it up faster or slower than those around them. For me, I've been studying Japanese since I was 11, but I'm still not close to passing even N2, whereas a friend of mine was N1 level (and passed it, iirc) after only about 4 years of study.

I think that if you have motivation that day to study on a particular day, you should make use of it, and if you find you don't have any motivation, give yourself a break, and don't beat yourself up over it.

For me, I decided that I won't worry too much about what my failure rate is for cards, because in the long run, they'll eventually stick, and Anki will take care of things for me. Sometimes (at the moment I'm going through RTK2) I'll fail a card every day for a week, and I refuse to let it bother me, because eventually it'll go in. When I'm done with RTK2, I don't know what I'll do, because manga and anime and video games do not interest me in the slightest, but I'll need native materials that I find engaging in order to continue my studies..

Good luck with your studies^^

Glad that you didn't give up, PkmnTrainerAbram. Just do whatever you can, whatever you want, whatever that will make you smile and enjoy in Japanese. We shouldn't be torturing ourselves by comparing to other people, that I have to do this, do that, study 100 cards/day, finish RTK in 3 months (or less), have 90% retention rate, never fail a card, etc. Do what works for you. It is ok to have that competitive attitude but if it isn't beneficial, drop it. Focus on yourself.

ktcgx Wrote:For me, I decided that I won't worry too much about what my failure rate is for cards, because in the long run, they'll eventually stick, and Anki will take care of things for me. Sometimes (at the moment I'm going through RTK2) I'll fail a card every day for a week, and I refuse to let it bother me, because eventually it'll go in.

This is what I did when I was down to the last 1/4 of RTK (2042 Kanji). And I am happy with my decision. Everyone should think the same way. Repeatedly failing a card, making mistakes, having low retention rate, taking a small break, etc... shouldn't be seen as a failure in acquiring the language! I had this mentality too. I wanted to achieve 90% retention rate in RTK deck but I realized it had a negative effect on me. I was too pressured to attain it and forgot to just have fun. I was so busy reaching for the near perfect score. Now, I also do not care with retention rate. What worked for me is that accept that I will make mistakes. Tons of mistakes. But it is okay, I'll just learn from it and change my methods when needed as I continue to move forward. And while I'm on it, I will have fun with native materials.

Good luck!

My Response to first post is no. Just reading it out loud wont do much. Olyou have to listen a lot preferablely at least 50% comprehensible. Japanese has intonation so you're never gonna pick that up if you just limit it to your own speaking. If you don't know what intonation is or can't really notice or feel it that's fine... You will eventually start to feel it so long as you keep listening

howtwosavealif3 Wrote:My Response to first post is no. Just reading it out loud wont do much. Olyou have to listen a lot preferablely at least 50% comprehensible. Japanese has intonation so you're never gonna pick that up if you just limit it to your own speaking. If you don't know what intonation is or can't really notice or feel it that's fine... You will eventually start to feel it so long as you keep listening

Hmmm....was going to make another topic on this, but what the heck. Only took me a year for this to get back on topic, and hell, I don't think I even thought to ask this question despite the topic begging for it. Lol at me.

WHAT exactly should I use a phrasebook for? HOW should one approach a phrase book? Should I just mine sentences and statements I've use in conversation and writing and base my sentence structures around that until I can learn better sentence patterns through immersion? I can understand the benefit of having 2000+ phrases and stuff for travel, but I'm not traveling to Japan anytime soon. HOWEVER, after learning 1000 vocab words in Anki in the past month and a half, I want to start posting on Lang 8 and actually talk to people. Playing games and reading guidebooks is alright, but I'm at a point where I want to do a bit more.

I'm still learning Japanese just to goof off in after all(seriously, that's all it is, I thought it would be nice to know 2 languages when starting, but this is really the main reason).

As far as Phrase books go, how about look at a method that actually makes use of them, like Benny's FI3M/Talk From Day One.

I'm no expert, but in my personal experience, my listening has improved a lot just by turning off those subtitles (or switching on Japanese subs) and watching simple kids anime like Pretty Cure or Ginga e Kickoff daily. Learning to guess what you don't know is an important skill. If I hear a sentence and understand everything but one word, I'm likely to pause/repeat and pay closer attention. If it's a word in my giant Subs2SRS anime deck, I'll queue that word up for learning more in depth.

In many respects there is no right & true method, just what works for you. Discovering what works for you is the tricky part.