Today was really disturbing.
This is a serious topic.

My best friend is my japanese language partner.
We have been language partners for 3 years and we are the best of friends.

Here is some info about her:
*Late 30's (she won't tell me her age, but that is my guess)
*Never married and doesn't want to marry
*Hates both of her parents because of their awful relationship
*Has run 2 failed business and is desparately searching for a third business venture
*She LOVES money, but doesn't have much (she buys Louis Vutton and expensive goods)
*She believes that success in business has more to do with luck and IMHO, doesn't put
enough effort in it. She just looks for ways to increase luck (whatever that means).

Today she told me that she attended a meditation group with 9 other Japanese women.
They come to see this Japanese "healer" that is famous in Japan and comes to the United
States once in a while.

My best friend said that while meditating, she could hear his voice and now she
is convinced that this healer is a god.

The healer has told the women that he is a god, but
has come to Earth in the form of a human to help people.
They all believe him.

Also, during the most recent meeting, the healer had her pull a tarot
card and the card she pulled says "Victory!". She has never succeeded in business
and is desparate to succeed. So when she pulled this tarot card she was SHOCKED and
SOOO happy. I shrugged and told her maybe all tarot cards had "Victory" or other good things written on them (she never saw the rest of the cards, everyone kept their card to themselves).

Anyway, I told her that this is a cult and she insists "No, this isn't a cult!". And on top of that, she REALLY does believe that he is a god.

What can i do to stop this? Or is there nothing I can do?
I feel like any resistance I offer will just push her further back.

Anyway, this is the 1st time she brought up this topic to me.

Also, I'm really hoping this "healer" doesn't pull a "2012 is the end
of the world" card. Yesterday, my best friend was chatting with her best friend
about the end of the world.

Btw, her visa expires in one year and if she goes back to Japan, she'll probably
never return to the States.

She is a very vulnerable person (she's cried in front of me so many times). I can totally see her getting caught up in this believing that she will succeed with the help of this god.

What should i do?
Does anyone know anything about these so-called Japanese healers?

I get the feeling I might lose my best friend this year..... :-(
That's much worse than seeing the world end this year.

Thanks.

I'd rationally point out that almost all cults are based around money, sex or power. At some point he will ask for cash, for sexual relations or will start trying to "control" her (though maybe she wants this?).

You could research this guy and find out if he has a fraudulent past? Point out that it's strange he only sees women? The problem is, if she already believes he is god then she's gone past the point of rational thought. It'll be hard to convince her to lose faith, in the same way it's hard to convince a Christian that there's no god, unless you humanise this man somehow.

[Zgarbas]

I have a family member who recently joined a cult(several actually, interestingly enough...). Regardless of the nationality or type of the organization they all work in the same way, so I guess this applies.

Even if you bring out evidence that he is a fraud, even if you bring out evidence that he is a child abuser(in my case), even if you bring several blogs from past cultists who cry about how abusive the cult is, it is not enough. She will just say stuff like "I'm only going there for health reasons" (since he is a healer). Even if they hate other cults they will refuse to understand that the thing they're now part of is a cult.

Unfortunately some people allow a void to make their way into their lives and the cults are there to fill that exact void. There is little you can do about it =(.

P.S. I would still try the past cultists testimonials+fraud approach. Usually past members are very open about it, so you could find a few sources. The cults usually insta-shun anyone who goes against them, threaten with lawsuits et co, but usually 1-2 people will be determined enough to keep the truth on the Internet.

One of the most important factors that keeps cultists from realizing what is happening is the belief that it cannot happen to them. Find some stories about cultist's testimonials about how they felt they belonged. Maybe your friend can see the pattern and realize she's fallen into it. Hopefully =(. I'll keep my fingers crossed for you.

I agree with aphasiac, at some point this guy is going to ask your friend to make some kind of commitment concerning money, sex, or power. If you can bring this up to your friend in a neutral way, saying "If he really is a god then he won't need anything from you, especially money/sex/power. If he ever asks for any of those things, then you'll know it's a cult," then perhaps when it happens something will click in her mind and she will come to her senses. Then you've got him.

Sadly, her connection to him is an emotional one, not a logical one, so trying to tackle this problem with logic is not going to work. I can't see her breaking her attachment to this guy unless he does something to make her stop feeling the way she does, which most likely will end up being a traumatic experience. If you can turn her on to other things that might give her a similar feeling (like legitimate meditation speakers/musicians) it could weaken her fixation on him so that when he finally "reveals" himself, it will be harder for her to explain it away because she's been exposed to REAL positive forces for so long.

So, ultimately you want to be one of those positive forces that will draw her away from, instead of push her towards, this cult leader. Take an honest interest in this whole new age/meditation/healing track she's on and do a little research so you can suggest different books, websites, or music, and be able to talk with her about it...even if it's not something you'd be interested in otherwise. If you commit to looking into it with an open mind, at least it will be interesting to think about. It's not like you have to marry this new worldview your friend has embraced.

In short...just keep being her friend. And if you follow the suggestions the others and I offer and she still refuses to see sense, well, all you can do is be prepared to pick up the pieces when her life falls apart.

Maybe you can fill in what made her go to such route, without bringing anything against the cult idea.
Like show her and talk to her about stories of successful people, and try to give her the emotional needs she's been lacking.

Do you know who the guy is? Can we try to dig up stuff about him?

yeah, please tell us who he is, and we'll help figure out how dangerous he is & any evidence online about him.

I don't really know anything about cults or how to approach this kind of situation, sorry...

but the idea about trying to help her with a new business, and how to go about running a business well sounds like a good one. If she does get a new business up and running it'll help her confidence and lessen the potential impact of this guy, as well as giving her a reason to stay in the US and renew her visa, without alienating her by trying to convince her this guy's a fake...

[Zgarbas]

I hate to break this to you, but if her business gets back on track she will be even MORE in love with the cult, as it "helped" her. Whenever anything good happens to the said family member (if I get good grades, if she feels better after a cold, the fact that she recently got a good job, the fact that her eyesight has gotten better) she always thanks the "energies" for it.

Since it got better after she found the healer, it is obviously the healer's influence. If anything goes bad after she met the healer it is because she either
a) is not doing something wrong and should dedicate more time to the healer
or b) it is the bad juju going away, thanks to the healer's positive influence.

However, I just remembered something that helped get her away from a particular cult which was based on worshipping a guru....
This was a meditation-based group which would slowly lead to dedicating yourself completely to the guru, right? She got SO into meditation that she wanted to see more mantras and various things from other places, and when she shared that with her fellow cult-members they all frowned upon it so bad that she decided to leave the cult.

So maybe further her interest in general spiritualism in order to save her from the cult? Keep in mind that my family member is now dabbling in between about 25 different groups of spiritualist and buddhist and tibetan and fenshui and what not mini-groups and mini-cults, so it might not still lead to the desired result.

BTW, them being a 2012 end of the world thing might actually help. When the prophecy is proven wrong most "prophets" are discredited. Lots of groups had that happen, though certain individuals keep coming back for more(i forget of the name of pseudo-math guy who was a 99-is-the-end prophet, a 2000-is-the end, a 2004-is-the-end and is not preaching about 2012-is-the-end and how he used his mathematical energies to cure cancer in 5 minutes), but they are very few.

TBH it sounds like your friend has a mental illness. You are right that trying to keep her from her cult will only make her believe more...

The only way I know of that works is to find something that fulfills the same needs her cult fulfills for her and introduce her to that (eg. like replacing heroin with morphine).

I unfortunately have no idea what you could replace it with though... maybe you or some of your friends practice a mainstream (less radical) religion that you could invite her to... and then she might switch over?

I will meet her tomorrow.

She told me the name of the guy, but I forgot.
I will ask her again and let you know who he is.

What I'm worried about is that, when I think about it, my friend is
perfect for an abusive cult leader. She is very weak-willed,submissive, and single.

Like others have suggested, I'll try to find out what she likes about
this cult, but I got the impression that a lot of it has to do with meditation.

So I'm thinking about suggesting that she visit a Buddhist church and attend
a meditation session.

I know a Buddhist church that has a Japanese priest. If I have to, I'd even go with her (even though I'm basically non-religious these days).

Can anyone suggest some new age/meditation/spiritual groups that are legit?
I will look for them in my area.

Thank you.

[Zgarbas]

Very few of them are actually legit. Whatever you find, be sure to find abother 5 sources to confirm the legitness. Usually only 1-2 blogs make it online, since most members are theatened and lawsuits are started against ex-members who dare speak up.

As lame as this sounds, maybe good 'ol fashioned Christianity, in whatever *mainstream* branch is around you? None of the born-again stuff, just the "hey did you know that you can go to heaven if you're a good person, and you don't have to pay us for that promise" traditional method? It should be exotic enough for a Japanese person. I don't really see why she would be interested in traditional Buddhism, and the new age things are...well... messed up as hell. Usually the moment a religious branch decides to separate itself into an elitist group things start going down the drain.

Quote:TBH it sounds like your friend has a mental illness

It's not a mental illness. Some people are just vulnerable, and cults are marketed precisely for them. It is very easy to make people forget reason when you promise exactly what they need to hear.

P.S. It is very admirable of you to want to help your friend and I wish you best of luck .

I will have to confirm it with her tomorrow, but I think she said this cult was a Christian group.

Which makes no sense. Since Christianity is monotheistic (i.e. there is only one God) and the cult leader claims that he is "a god" that has come to Earth in the form of a human. It could be a translation issue, since her English isn't perfect.

Why a god would ever want to come to Earth in the form of a Japanese man is beyond me....

One of the difficulties with old-fashioned Christianity is that even if I brought her to a Christian church, she wouldn't be able to read the Bible or understand the sermons in English. So I might be limited to churches with services in Japanese.

Also, I think she likes meditation because she has so much built-up stress and doesn't
know how to deal with it.

Hopefully, I'll find out more from her this week.

My advice is to listen as much as possible to her and speak very very carefully. The more confrontational you act the more you'll just be labeled as 'one of the people on the outside who just doesn't get it.' Do not be confrontational ever, it's very important. The minute you lose her trust you have no more leverage in her life.

You have to make her feel like you can continue to be a part of her life even if you don't approve of the cult. So even if you become very frustrated with her, which you very probably will, you can't show it. It will seem obvious to you that the whole thing is bullshit, but never show to her that you think that way. Be skeptical but don't be so removed from her that she can't relate to you at all anymore.

You already don't have the upper hand. She believes he is a God, and unfortunately humans have a tendancy to treat the other-worldly as more important than the worldy. You're just her friend, but he's a God.

So, listening is the most important thing. You need to make her feel like by herself she is coming to the decision that he is not a God, and that it is a bad idea to get involved in this group. So listen to her talk about the cult, and slyly get her to think about what she is saying, but don't tell her that it's bullshit. Help her, as best you can, to come to the decision herself without telling her what you think.

Find out as much as possible as you can about this guy so you know what the members believe. That way you will know what will set her off into not trusting you.

(I also agree that church or something can be a useful tool. If you act like you are also interested in the spiritual side of life, you can make her feel like you are on a journey figuring things out together. And hopefully you can steer her towards one that is not cult-like. Not that Church isn't bullshit. It is, but it doesn't manipulate its members so much.)

Anyway, be careful. I went through something similar, but not with a cult. I was trying to get a friend in a very bad situation to help herself, but I pushed her a bit too hard and she pushed me away. I had some of the hardest times of my life during it because we were very close friends. The regret still lingers in the air, and she's still in the same situation.

If you fail in the long run, remember that it's not your fault. Just remember that you tried to help her and that's the important thing.

Get her a Japanese Bible, or tell her to get one. If she thinks she's in a Christian group then she shouldn't be opposed to that. Encourage her to learn more about this religion that she thinks she's following. Maybe if she tries to discuss it with her leader or other group members, she'll realize that something's off. Or she'll realize it herself.

[Zgarbas]

(I think I'm way too involved in this discussion. Sorry. Personal wounds, you know, and I've done lots of research into cult behavior to help my family members).

The fact that it makes no sense does not matter. The cults abandon general consensus regarding how the religion they "belong" work. There is a Christian cults in China which thing that the way to salvation is having sex with the essence of God, IIRC. There are Buddhist cults focusing on material belongings, or on explicit theism. There are Buddhist organizations which treat meditation like something any average Joe can do, despite it just not working that way, and so on. Many cults are in direct contradiction to the most basic principles of the main religion they are based on, and the members rarely care.

But if those contradictions become apparent, it's possible that either she'll want out or they'll want her out if she calls them on it (i.e., rocks the boat). I think it's worth a shot at any rate.

juniperpansy Wrote:TBH it sounds like your friend has a mental illness. You are right that trying to keep her from her cult will only make her believe more...

She's not really more mentally ill than most Christians! I mean George W Bush apparently heard voices from God regarding Iraq - no one called him crazy.

I've been thinking...Do we definitely know this healer is running a cult? Maybe he is a genuine helpful person; Claiming you are a God is not necessarily a bad thing. For example, I'm a big fan of David Icke (a British consipirisy theorist who has said he is the Second Coming) and although I don't believe his more outlandish claims, his message is overall quite interesting and positive.

We need a name for this Japanese guy; we can then find out a bit more about him.

David Icke as in the holocaust denier David Icke???

i don't think that's a positive force for good in the world. In fact, most bs isn't. Conspiracy theories are fun diversions to laugh at sometimes (when they're not harmful like holocaust deniers), but don't get caught up in them please Aphasiac!!! Aren't theories based on evidence far more of a force for good in the world?

I thought David Icke was the guy who believed in lizard people -- certainly more humorous than being a holocaust denier. Either way, I agree: BS is never good for the world.

chamcham Wrote:*She LOVES money, but doesn't have much (she buys Louis Vutton and expensive goods)

isn't she lost already to the cult of consumerism ? i think late 30s is too late to 'save' anyone. get a new 'friend' ?

chamcham Wrote:Why a god would ever want to come to Earth in the form of a Japanese man is beyond me....

... I hope you aren't implying it would make more sense if a god came to Earth in the form of a Jew...

It sounds like your friend wants to believe. It doesn't matter what evidence you throw at strong religious believers, they'll continue to believe and eventually cast out anything that comes in between. So many people have tried to fight against cults to get their family members out and couldn't succeed. I'm not sure how much you could do beyond explaining your worries and telling her you'll be there not matter what.

Have you ever managed to convince a Christian that God doesn't exist? If you are a believer yourself, how could I convince you of the same? Then why would it be easier to convince your friend that this guy is an imposter? Sometimes, we need to make mistakes in order to learn from them.

IceCream Wrote:David Icke as in the holocaust denier David Icke???

You're probably thinking of David Irving.

Icke is not a holocaust denier, though if put on the spot he'd probably question it (like he questions absolutely every official line). It's also possible Icke's main notion of a new world order run by a reptilian race is a thinly veiled reference to Jewish people, but only his hardcore followers believe that stuff anyway.

[Zgarbas]

Actually the reptilian conspiracy theory is officially dead, since its official apocalypse date has passed. Funny how that works.

(Conspiracy theorists are hilarious)

Zgarbas Wrote:Actually the reptilian conspiracy theory is officially dead, since its official apocalypse date has passed. Funny how that works.

(Conspiracy theorists are hilarious)

When was the official apocalypse date?

[Zgarbas]

About 2 years ago, IIRC.

Huh. Can't find any record of it and the sources are about 2020 now. I guess they postponed it in the meantime?

My bad.