aphasiac Wrote:At the risk of pointing out the obvious..

From the girl's perspective - who says it's "fun"? once money is involved there will be pressure to do things she is not comfortable with, with a man she's not in love with and possibly not even attracted to. It has the potential to screw her up emotionally for the rest of her life (not to mention she'll be stigmatised if she's caught). Yes I'm sure some girls enjoy it, just like some adult escorts enjoy their jobs, but there's huge potential for emotional harm so why risk it?

From the man's perspective - why on earth would a salaryman aged 30-50 want to date a girl in her early teens? What do they have in common? What will they talk about? Do you think this is going to be a healthy relationship with loving respectful sex? Even if they do fall in love, will the relationship last long term. Again, too much risk of damage to the girl.

As you and Icecream pointed out, young died out centuries ago in all civilised countries; It is hugely embarrassing for Japan to allow this to go on in this day and age.

1) Dating and Prostitution are two separate issues. These older men aren't looking to date these young girls, they are looking to screw them.

2) Prostitution just like anything else is an exchange of money for services, sex in this case. Just like any kind of "service contract" the rules can be set down pretty easily. "Condom, no bruising, light biting, don't draw blood, etc etc." Can stuff go horribly wrong? Can pressure be put on to do more? Ya. But this applies likewise in so much else. Everything you stated here could just as easily affect someone that's 25 or 30. If during the act someone gets too rough and hits the girl as "part of the fun" and it actually hurts her, then you can press charges on assault. Is this the fault of prostitution? If someones wife gets hit during sex and hurt, is this the fault of marriage? See how absurd it is? All the issues people tend to list for "why we shouldn't have prostitution." can be solved through applying other laws already on the book.

I'll say it again. The only likely valid argument against underage prostitution might be the point about "emotional fragility." But I'm exceptionally skeptical that this would apply to people that are considered high schoolers, which are probably the largest group participating in Enjo-kosai in the "illegal" sphere.

3) Lastly, Japan isn't ignoring the issue. About each month I hear about guys being arrested for sex with minors in Japan. So they are defiantly pursuing the matter. They aren't just turning a blind eye. And the right conservative political sector of Japan is coming down harder and harder on your usual "family values" thing. Look at the hypocrite Tokyo Governor Ishihara.

@vix86

No, it's not the men who are the victims. Again, don't be so ridiculous. An adult man, who is paying for someone to perform sexual acts for him, is totally responsible for his actions and the consequences of them.

For a start, how about trying to meet a woman who actually likes you, and you don't need to pay / objectify? Even if you can't / don't want to, it is definately your responsibilty to make sure that it really is consentual (i.e. nontrafficked), between adults, and preferably with someone who is genuinely doing it because she wants to, not because she's suffered some kind of emotional damage in the past.

Underage girls, even if they seem to have excersised their "free will" when putting up an ad, just do not have the mental resources to really make a thought through and balanced decision at that age. Can you honestly say that your decisions at that age would have been?

It's not men being tricked by girls who are pretending to be older as far as i've read. It's older men who want to have sex with as young a girl as possible. But even if it wasn't, they are the adults, the ones who understand what they are doing, and therefore should act like an adult and take responsibility for their actions / face legal consequences if they don't.

IceCream: Not going to get into justifying underage frolicking, but the whole concept of defining minor/adult by age is flawed.

There are mature teenagers and immature adults.

I assumed Japanese "compensation dating" had some sort of dating element to it; activities like KTV, eating food before getting down to business. I didn't realise it was entirely about sex..

The maturity of these girls is an issue. For many of them this will be their first exposure to sex, and it'll be playing the role of a schoolgirl in a salaryman's sexual fantasy. No love, probably no attraction, just cash. They doesn't sound healthy to me, for the girl or the paying man!

My view on prostitution in general is that it's ok, as long as the girl 100% knows what she is doing, is 100% comfortable with her choices, and is in total control of the situation. I'm not sure a 16 year old being "paid" by a 40 year old will fit these criteria.

It's a euphemism. They may meet at a cafe or whatever first for the girl to make sure the guy isn't scary etc, but it's not a date.

Prostitution is illegal in Japan, so by claiming it's a date they can attempt to skirt the laws. Often money doesn't change hands either, instead the John buys a brand handbag or whatever and gives that.

IceCream Wrote:@vix86

No, it's not the men who are the victims. Again, don't be so ridiculous. An adult man, who is paying for someone to perform sexual acts for him, is totally responsible for his actions and the consequences of them.

As is anyone putting up an ad saying they want to meet someone and have sex.

Quote:Even if you can't / don't want to, it is definately your responsibilty to make sure that it really is consentual (i.e. nontrafficked), between adults, and preferably with someone who is genuinely doing it because she wants to, not because she's suffered some kind of emotional damage in the past.

And arguably all of this has all resulted because prostitution is made illegal. In much the same way marijuana is illegal and the mass jailings and organized/gang crime surrounding it. In much the same way surrounding alcohol prohibition before it and the mafia.

Quote:Underage girls, even if they seem to have excersised their "free will" when putting up an ad, just do not have the mental resources to really make a thought through and balanced decision at that age. Can you honestly say that your decisions at that age would have been?

Yes because clearly everyone's 18th birthday is exactly when they stop being mentally retarded (which you insinuate and one of the articles you linked actually stated) and suddenly can start making educated 'adult' decisions about sex. They aren't responsible or mentally capable enough to know anything about sex, but clearly capable enough to decide to quit school at 16 and go to work just like adults. They can't decide whether to really get in bed with a person like a thinking person, but they can clearly make adult decisions about killing someone.

Quote:It's not men being tricked by girls who are pretending to be older as far as i've read. It's older men who want to have sex with as young a girl as possible. But even if it wasn't, they are the adults, the ones who understand what they are doing, and therefore should act like an adult.

So if guys just stop liking younger girls, there wouldn't be any problems.
If those gays would just stop liking their own gender there wouldn't be any problems.
If those black people would just stop smoking that weed there wouldn't be any problems.
If I hadn't made it clear from my posts so far. This definition of "adult" outside the scope of law is so fluid. An argument can definitely be made that by setting it at some arbitrary number of "18" we some how "include most of the people that could be affected." But I then think its crazy that you are going to have these other things which are clearly things "adults" do (work a job?) and then say they still aren't adults.

Jarvik7 Wrote:IceCream: Not going to get into justifying underage frolicking, but the whole concept of defining minor/adult by age is flawed.

There are mature teenagers and immature adults.

Yes, there are. However, the vast majority of 14 year olds aren't going to actually be mature, even if they seem so on the outside. I'd probably argue that you want to be aiming for mid 20's at least for prostitutes really, because that's when the prefrontal cortex finishes developing, and barring any severe emotional damage, it can really be an informed choice at that age.

It's a different situation for non paid consentual sex, although you should still take care of age gaps with younger girls and try to minimise the emotional impact.

btw, i'm not sure that all of those dates are for sex, some people seem to argue that they aren't: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enjo_k%C5%8Dsai

Can I get an operational definition of "Emotional Damage"? (since it seems we've successfully derailed this thread .)

And the thread is derailed.

vix86 Wrote:

IceCream Wrote:@vix86

No, it's not the men who are the victims. Again, don't be so ridiculous. An adult man, who is paying for someone to perform sexual acts for him, is totally responsible for his actions and the consequences of them.

As is anyone putting up an ad saying they want to meet someone and have sex.

No, underage girls can't be responsible, that was the point.

Quote:

Quote:Even if you can't / don't want to, it is definately your responsibilty to make sure that it really is consentual (i.e. nontrafficked), between adults, and preferably with someone who is genuinely doing it because she wants to, not because she's suffered some kind of emotional damage in the past.

And arguably all of this has all resulted because prostitution is made illegal. In much the same way marijuana is illegal and the mass jailings and organized/gang crime surrounding it. In much the same way surrounding alcohol prohibition before it and the mafia.

I'm not arguing about the legality of the issue, it is your responsibility as a general human being.

Quote:

Quote:Underage girls, even if they seem to have excersised their "free will" when putting up an ad, just do not have the mental resources to really make a thought through and balanced decision at that age. Can you honestly say that your decisions at that age would have been?

Yes because clearly everyone's 18th birthday is exactly when they stop being mentally retarded (which you insinuate and one of the articles you linked actually stated) and suddenly can start making educated 'adult' decisions about sex. They aren't responsible or mentally capable enough to know anything about sex, but clearly capable enough to decide to quit school at 16 and go to work just like adults. They can't decide whether to really get in bed with a person like a thinking person, but they can clearly make adult decisions about killing someone.

i dont believe that's right either. Obviously an arbitrary line has to be drawn somewhere, but imo, it should be 25 not 18 to begin with.

Quote:

Quote:It's not men being tricked by girls who are pretending to be older as far as i've read. It's older men who want to have sex with as young a girl as possible. But even if it wasn't, they are the adults, the ones who understand what they are doing, and therefore should act like an adult.

So if guys just stop liking younger girls, there wouldn't be any problems.
If those gays would just stop liking their own gender there wouldn't be any problems.
If those black people would just stop smoking that weed there wouldn't be any problems.
If I hadn't made it clear from my posts so far. This definition of "adult" outside the scope of law is so fluid. An argument can definitely be made that by setting it at some arbitrary number of "18" we some how "include most of the people that could be affected." But I then think its crazy that you are going to have these other things which are clearly things "adults" do (work a job?) and then say they still aren't adults.

I think that while there will be some people who have a preference for young girls in every society, attitudes are also shaped by culture to some extent. And that's what has happened in Japan with attitudes towards high school & younger girls.
On the other hand, sorry, it's nothing like consentual sex between two gay adults, since they are both adults and have the full ability to make that decision.

I don't think you can really compare it to leaving school and getting a job. You can always go back to school if you hate it, and your job is going to be very different from that. You won't be able to sell yourself into slavery, or sell your kidneys or anything either, will you.

vix86 Wrote:And arguably all of this has all resulted because prostitution is made illegal. In much the same way marijuana is illegal and the mass jailings and organized/gang crime surrounding it. In much the same way surrounding alcohol prohibition before it and the mafia.

Actual prostitution is legal in the UK, and they still have problems with sexual slavery and human trafficking. Same in Amsterdam, same anywhere demand is greater than the supply.

vix86 Wrote:Can I get an operational definition of "Emotional Damage"? (since it seems we've successively derailed this thread.)

This topic is well researched in America:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adolescent_...al_effects

Also take note of this: "A first sexual experience that was unwanted or not completely wanted was strongly associated with future divorce"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adolescent_...ntercourse

I honestly believe this is also bad for the men involved. Either they're cheating on their wives with young "fantasy" schoolgirls (not exactly good for their homelife and family relationship), or they're actively avoiding girls their own age to pay for dates with girls significantly younger, who they absolutely no connection with and just want to use for sex. Either way it's not healthy.

Some people draw a veil over the issue of sex as if it was something special beyond the means of reproduction. I am not condoning child prostitution, but people should be allowed more flexibility to do as they please. Rather than laws to prohibit, better laws to regulate and make sure things don't go out of hand. In any case, something has to be done. Paying for sex is not going away any time soon.

**
Like the issue on the legality of drugs. Some people are more capable than others to enjoy them without hurting others. Like alcohol. But why one is illegal and the other not, profoundly beats me. If you are going to ban drugs ban everything that could be abused.

A quick note:
At times the man IS the victim in enjo kosai, because a common scam is to have the man take a shower first, while the girl steals his wallet's contents and leaves. As the man is already engaged in an illegal act, he can't report this to the police.

And that applies to prostitution in general as well. There is a large portion of the people paying for sex that are trying prostitution for the first time and get easily scammed or conned into paying more.

vix86 Wrote:3) Lastly, Japan isn't ignoring the issue. About each month I hear about guys being arrested for sex with minors in Japan. So they are defiantly pursuing the matter. They aren't just turning a blind eye. And the right conservative political sector of Japan is coming down harder and harder on your usual "family values" thing. Look at the hypocrite Tokyo Governor Ishihara.

lately it was discovered that an AKB48 member's mother admitted to performing indecent acts on a 15-year-old kid.

total damage: 50万円。 no jail time. the violation was of a city ordinance for corrupting youth.

that's the only true news.

the rumor mill says that the 15-year-old kid was a senpai of the akb48 member's brother and was she was extorted into doing it because of the senpai/kouhai thing.

if so, that's all kinds of messed up. broken seniority rules, extortion, bullying, a relatively minor fine, the real victim (the mother) having to pay the fine, underage sex, a city ordinance violation vs. a national law...

also because AKB48 is so big, marketing companies like dentsu can force the press not to cover it, otherwise the press/magazines will risk losing out on the interviews of the celebs, a tactic that was often enforced by Johnny's Associates.

kusterdu Wrote:And the thread is derailed.

Somewhere in high altitudes...

Quote:Dear Ladies and Gentleman, here is your captain speaking. We are on an approach to "Godwin's law".

IceCream Wrote:On the other hand, sorry, it's nothing like consentual sex between two gay adults, since they are both adults and have the full ability to make that decision.

Instead of nit picking each point I'll just hit at the point being danced around here. The issue here is when people stop being drooling retards and suddenly become sentient of their world around them. With the added bit that any interaction with said retard before being sentient will leave them amputated emotionally.

In this day and age though. I think 16 was always a fine age for consensual sex and that part of the issue surrounding the issue of "sex with minors," was spawned by Western media/public to push the bounds of where they want to believe "childhood innocence" is. It is through this topic of "innocence" that we have created rhetoric about this belief that 16-17 yr olds having sex somehow psychologically damages them and so we should make it illegal for them to have sex. Which I think is probably BS in most cases and simply shoving victimization feelings on a party that was probably fine to begin with.
People then rattle off things about the responsibility of consequences which apply to any age group equally (->Just wear a ***** condom!) as reasons for sheltering everyone below <insert arbitrary age here>.
Its all ridiculous to me. I still remember being 16 and I will agree I was stupid about some things, but I had a good enough scope on the world to see the results of sex. And everyone I knew also realized this as well. People weren't retards and completely oblivious.

Quote:I don't think you can really compare it to leaving school and getting a job. You can always go back to school if you hate it, and your job is going to be very different from that. You won't be able to sell yourself into slavery, or sell your kidneys or anything either, will you.

I don't quite follow the analogy you trying to make here. Are you trying to say that leaving school and getting a job is some minor decision that isn't "adult"-like in the least, but sex is some sort of major decision on level of "selling yourself into slavery" and "selling a kidney"?

vix86 Wrote:In this day and age though. I think 16 was always a fine age for consensual sex and that part of the issue surrounding the issue of "sex with minors," was spawned by Western media/public to push the bounds of where they want to believe "childhood innocence" is. It is through this topic of "innocence" that we have created rhetoric about this belief that 16-17 yr olds having sex somehow psychologically damages them and so we should make it illegal for them to have sex. Which I think is probably BS in most cases and simply shoving victimization feelings on a party that was probably fine to begin with.

Re-read my earlier post again. There are alot of research and opinions from psychologists pointing to the fact that under-age sex is damaging, especially for girls:

http://forum.koohii.com/showthread.php?p...3#pid85303

aphasiac Wrote:Actual prostitution is legal in the UK, and they still have problems with sexual slavery and human trafficking. Same in Amsterdam, same anywhere demand is greater than the supply.

This is quite interesting I did not realize it. The crime is still present because there is a high demand for it, but do you think this is merely a result of so many people going to the UK (less so) and Amsterdam (primarily) because its legal there? Would demand be less there and the crime less as a result if prostitution wasn't illegal in most of the world? Regardless its an interesting data point, but there are still laws for litigating human trafficking and slavery.

Quote:This topic is well researched in America:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adolescent_...al_effects

Also take note of this: "A first sexual experience that was unwanted or not completely wanted was strongly associated with future divorce"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adolescent_...ntercourse

To some up the links from what I can see is. A shit ton of correlation studies showing some kind of link between problems of depression, self-image, etc. And surveys showing that kids regret their decision and "wished they had waited longer." Of course this could just mean that most people, regardless of being young or old, will tend to regret their first sexual encounter. Kind of interesting that most of the kids are using contraception though; found that surprising. That said...

Say it with me now: Correlation does NOT equal Causation.

Quite likely explanation is that many of these people that are having sex early might have a bad home life. Missing parents, no parents, bad parents, etc. This leads to them doing stuff like sex, drugs, violence; and incidentally also results in depression, personality issues, self-image issues, and a slew of other DSM illnesses. If sex at 16 does not cause some actual negative effect as a result of experiencing the act. That makes it a VICTIMLESS CRIME, especially if they both parties consented. Stop thinking about simply as some act between 2 people of massively different ages. A 19 year old having sex with a 16 year old will be jailed just the same as a 60 yr old.

Something else I wonder about with respect to the studies linked in the Wiki articles is if some of this isn't cultural-centric to the US. In otherwords, because of the strong Christian and puritan based mores and ideals that permeate US culture, could this not have resulted in sex being something negative. Sex has been fairly demonized as something "dirty" throughout both the christian and the catholic church for centuries. Where as in a culture like Japan the act of sex has been viewed as just something that people do. It was till West showed up that sex started being painted the way it is now.

Quote:I honestly believe this is also bad for the men involved. Either they're cheating on their wives with young "fantasy" schoolgirls (not exactly good for their homelife and family relationship), or they're actively avoiding girls their own age to pay for dates with girls significantly younger, who they absolutely no connection with and just want to use for sex. Either way it's not healthy.

So we need the government babysitting and arresting people and telling them "No you should be out ***** girls your own age!" Again I'm stuck seeing how this makes for a justifiable reason to write a law and throw people in jail. Again, its only a step away from people saying gays shouldn't be together because they can't make babies.

kainzero Wrote:lately it was discovered that an AKB48 member's mother admitted to performing indecent acts on a 15-year-old kid.

Heres a pretty recent one, 元講師、担任の女児５人に計３７回わいせつ…京都.
Though this particular case was with Elementary kids and was rape, so its kind of outside the scope of what the original people were insinuating (I think). But its not like Japan is going: "You're under arrest!....Oh wait you were fiddling with some 10yr old girls? Thats it? Oh dam, my bad; sorry about that! Go on your way."

As far as the punishment and the way it was viewed by the media though? All things aside (celebrity involvement), women get far less flack from the media when they are they are involved in child sexual abuse versus a man. I actually can't find any stats to support a claim that they get less harsh punishments compared to men in court; though. But its my initial gut reaction on the matter. Women are far less demonized in the media over sex with minors though. So its quite easy for me to believe that the courts probably went "Well, boys love sex, so the woman was kind of doing him a favor, it wasn't traumatic to him at all. We can't ignore the fact that she extorted him though so we'll slap her with a small fine."

vix86 Wrote:You don't need to carry your passport after you have your ARC.

Should have mentioned that I was visiting and didn't have an ARC. Of course you carry that instead if you have one.

vix86 Wrote:

Irixmark Wrote:This is the side of Japan that troubles me the most. And no, there is absolutely no point in denying that underage prostitution is rampant in Japan, and that teenagers selling their bodies to middle-aged men is tolerated, and if anyone is blamed, it's the girls themselves.

Whose fault is this though? Is it the fault of the middle-age man paying the girl? Is it the fault of the parents for not raising the girl with higher standards? Is it the fault of consumer society that makes people want more money to buy 3man handbags? Or clothes?

A lot of these girls doing this prostitution though are simply looking for a bit of extra money to spend each month. Its not like many are being pushed to prostitute by a pimp or anything; though it does happen on occasion. Prostitution with the absence of a coercive pimp, is a victimless crime. Both parties are consenting to the act.
(…)

I wasn't suggesting it's a crime, although you seem to assume that all the girls are at least 15 years old - I don't think that's necessarily true. But, what anybody above the age of consent does out of their own free will is their choice as far as I'm concerned.

I was suggesting that Japan's gender relations are often shockingly backward for a variety of reasons that have nothing to do with "culture" or "difference from the West."

Now there are lots of Japanese people who are actively trying to change that, but they are not very successful, and that troubles me.

Isn't this whole type of discussion just the equivalent of Japanese people looking at Western rape and murder statistics and concluding that America and Europe are backwards and unlivable? If I were a Japanese person I would certainly find these issues much more troubling than the topics discussed here. There are people living happily everywhere; deciding that a country should be avoided and that the natives are only content because they don't know better is cultural arrogance.

"Japanese people don't have empathy", "Japan hasn't contributed to the world", seriously what am I reading? This isn't Gaijinpot...

I grew up in a 3rd world country and perhaps I am not so 'sensitive' about many issues, don't get me wrong, I don't underestimate these issues, but in poorer countries people have problems more serious than 'psychological impact'.

I don't know about the rest of the world but in the vast majority of South America and Spain (and if it applies to Spain I am pretty sure it also applies to several other similar European countries, like Portugal, Greece and maybe France) it's so perfectly normal for 15 and 16 year olds to have consensual sex with men of variable age. In many instances, these girls are even more mature than the guys.

turvy Wrote:I don't know about the rest of the world but in the vast majority of South America and Spain (and if it applies to Spain I am pretty sure it also applies to several other similar European countries, like Portugal, Greece and maybe France) it's so perfectly normal for 15 and 16 year olds to have consensual sex with men of variable age. In many instances, these girls are even more mature than the guys.

Berlusconi.

Irixmark Wrote:I was suggesting that Japan's gender relations are often shockingly backward for a variety of reasons that have nothing to do with "culture" or "difference from the West."

It seems I'm being disabused of this notion. Maybe just backward compared to the Anglosaxon countries and Northern Europe.

vix86 Wrote:etcetcetc

can you honestly not differentiate between consentual sex and paying for sex?

because really, i'm not arguing that nobody should have sex under 25, only that you should not engage in prostitution under that age / with anyone under that age.

The risks do not amount to "wear a condom".

1stly, even if you personally aren't going to beat the girl up, cut her into little pieces or whatever, that doesn't mean that someone else won't. Yes, this can happen at any age, but if the girl is older at least she's capable of taking that risk into consideration when making the consideration to do that, and usually not meeting random guys from the internet.

2ndly, the psychological risks of prostitution are actually quite close to those of rape. Feelings of self disgust, worthlessness, etc, and later psychological problems. I very much doubt that this has anything to do with Christian notions of "sex being dirty", in the same way as the feelings stemming from rape don't. It probably has more to do with treating yourself like a product to be used by someone else for money. And yes, prostitution IS very close to selling your kidneys or selling yourself into slavery in this respect.

3rdly, can you not see a problem with your correlation is not causation argument that it's not the prostitution that leads to psychological problems, but the fact that the girl previously suffered some kind of emotional damage in her home life that led to her becoming a prostitute in the 1st place?? Even if this was the case, the fact that the girl probably wouldn't be engaging in prostitution if she hadn't had a bad home life in the first place should give you cause for alarm. That doesn't make it an ever so clear cut case of "consentual" to me.

And frankly, yes, if you can't keep your dick to yourself re: children, you obviously need babysitting by the government to make sure you do.

IceCream Wrote:can you honestly not differentiate between consentual sex and paying for sex?

So prostitution and consensual sex are in two completely separate spheres of existence? Its not possible to have consensual sex AND get paid for it?

It seems to me like maybe we've been arguing with two different views/outlooks based on the image brought forth by "prostitute." Based on your last post it sounds like you are reading "prostitute" and envisioning 16 year old girls out on some street corner waving down cars for a good time.

Where as I'm arguing about the term simply on the base definition of prostitution which is simple "exchanging sexual services for money." I guess now is a good time as any to point out that based on this definition of prostitution. Most dating "social scripts" for these days are basically long drawn out prostitution. You take a girl out for dinner, buy her some things, and then later you head home/hotel and have sex. Sure there wasn't DIRECT money exchanged but its pretty close to the concept of prostitution and its still consensual. Enjo Kosai is basically working on this concept.

What I was trying to get at though with the comment about "Christianity affecting the rhetoric surrounding sex; due to the stigma placed on it in the religion." was the point of focus. Much like what turvy said about sex just not being seen as a grave social issue in third world countries when placed up against the other issues of the day.
For example, you have a boy/girl who comes from a family where the father drinks and abuses the mother. In situation (A) the kid responds to the situation by doing drugs (smoking weed, doing ex/coke, take your pick). In situation (B) they go out and start taking money from older men/women and exchanging sex. Lets say the local news organization gets a hold of the story.
In which which situation (A) or (B) do you think would make "bigger waves" in the US and the UK? The fact that someone was selling them drugs or the fact that someone was giving them money for sex. There is nothing that says one is arbitrarily "worse" than the other, yet I'm pretty sure a story about a kid engaged in prostitution would go off like fireworks.
And my question was "why was this the case?" and I said (maybe unclearly) that its due to the mores brought in by Christianity/Catholicism. (In sort of a flip-flop, cases/news of drug use in Japan goes off like wild fire. The students at the major university in Japan being caught with marijuana was in the news for a couple weeks and people were treating it like "OMG Whats happened to the core values of our youth today!")