While I'm sure there are plenty of legitimate reasons why Japan sucks, in the case of this recent ranter, it definitely sounds like a case of him not taking personal responsibility and building a satisfying life for himself. If you choose to stay years in a job you know isn't going anyway, don't bother to learn the language decently, what do you expect? People have the same kind of midlife crises all over the world. This kind of boohoo my life sucks because of excuse xyz ranting isn't unique to foreigners in Japan. Also much of the criticism is more appropriately directed at the parallel universe that is the public education system and those who work in it than all of Japanese society. Public education is shit everywhere. I get so sick of hearing the bullshit cliche mostly spouted by ignorant westerners that east asians can't think critically because they just memorize facts blah blah blah. Get out of the education system here, and start working as a normal employee with other professionals are you'll see just how incredibly normal the Japanese people are. They're not all insincere robot nationalists and perverts.

[Zgarbas]

Oh man, I just realized. Italy. Lulz.

My liveliest memory of Italy(Rome) was how polite and friendly it was at night, with a nice little concert near Piata Navona and people drinking all over the streets. It was 1:59. At 2:00 everything closed down, the locals started throwing eggs at the concert goers, the concert goers started throwing bottles at the locals, all in one hate-fest because the band was Dutch and didn't know the "everything closes down at 2:00 SHARP" rule.

And Italy is known for burning down gipsy camps, which is not exactly much better than how the Japanese treat their foreigners...

And speaking of how businesswomen rob you whils housewives give back your wallet

Quote:Fraud is a major contributor to Italy's crime rate, with some level of fraud appearing in all sectors of the economy since the country's founding in 1861. Notable cases of financial fraud include the collapse of Parmalat in the early years of the twentyfirst century, and the Lockheed bribery scandal in the 1970s.

Insurance fraud also takes a high toll on the cost of insurance in Italy, with 115.646 incidents of fraudulent claims in 2001 alone, with 3.28 percent of all claims in 2002 accertained to involve fraud. The percentage rose above ten percent in some of the southern provinces.[6]

State employees have been perceived to have such a high rate of absenteeism, often feigning illness, that in 2008 the government introduced a law to harshly prosecute civil servants who are found to be making fraudulent claims about their health.[7] Fraudulent claims of ill health are not confined to state employees, with some physicians often willing to receive bribes to certify non-existent conditions so that citizens may receive incapacity benefit. A case was revealed in 2010 where in one quartiere of Naples alone, 400 people were found to be claiming mental illness while being healthy.[8]
[edit]

(wiki)

[Zgarbas]

Nah, everything was fine up to the egg-throwing. The places where drinking in public is normal are some of the nicest places I've been to. European drinking culture done right . It wasn't the alcohol, and judging by how uncaringly the people there joined in they made it seem like a nightly occurrence =/.

BTW, alcoholism is a national pastime where I'm from, but we have it much more together than the UK&the US combined. It depends on the drinking culture which is encouraged, rather than on the actual drinking =/. Just my two cents.
IIRC Japan had a pretty strong drinking culture, though the people here who have actually lived there would know better.

The gipsy problem is not restricted to the mafia. In fact, the most recent well known gipsy camp burning happened in Turin...which the username indicates as leonardo's home. Talk about hypocrisy? (i know, I know, gypsies ain't human and everyone hates them so it doesn't count. *sigh*. )

qwertyytrewq Wrote:I wonder how Japan as a whole, views alcoholism? I know that in countries like USA and UK, alcoholism can be considered a national pastime. Unfortunately, someone has to clean up the social and physical damage afterwards...

Depends how you are using the term "alcoholism." If you mean it in the since of the psychological illness of being an alcoholic, I can't really say too much on that. I have heard/read(?) some time ago that its sort of hush-hush thing in communities where you have a father or someone that is always drunk. They sort of expect them to eventually get over the issue or something. Its hard to say how serious of an issue it is in Japan because of the way of the culture. Which brings me to the other thing.

If you mean "alcoholism" in the sense of, "How do people view alcohol and people that get drunk?" Then Japan is probably one of the laxest countries. Speaking as an American, I can definitively say that many Americans would be shocked/offended at how Japanese handle alcohol. In the US if you drink on the side of the road? Arrested. Fall asleep on the side of the road? Arrested. Vomit on the side of the road? Arrested. I'm pretty sure you could get arrested for even walking down the side of the road if you are super drunk.

In Japan if you go to any of the large University campuses. There is always one or two streets lined with bars or izakayas and if you go there on a Friday/Sat (sometimes not even that!) around 9-12am. You can see people sprawled out all over the place asleep. You can see friends with some poor young dude vomiting into a bag. You can spot vomit on the streets. I've sat there and watched police step around passed out people on the street and just shrug. Its perfectly fine and viewed ok in the culture, but most Americans would probably be aploplexic over it. I still remember one time I went and bought a few beers at a small mom and pop shop. The shop keeper asked me something and my Japanese and I had to stop and think what he said (今飲みたい？）. It took me a second to realize it because it didn't fit nicely into my usual view on things (You drink alcohol in private), but standing on the side of the street and drinking beer is perfectly fine. Oh and alcohol vending machines, 'nuff said.
I hear Korea has quite the drinking culture too in this kind of respect. The only thing that I can think of is that its never become such a huge problem because a) Not puritan and b) A lot of Asians have the enzyme deficiency for breaking down alcohol so they can't ever get super hammered like Westerners.

EDIT: One other thing I want to add just to show sort of the culture difference in drinking. Most izakayas in Japan have "all you drink" (飲み放題) deals where you can drink all you want in X amount of time. Many states in the US and in the UK are cracking down on "Happy hours" at bars, I can only imagine how "all you can drink" would go over.

[Zgarbas]

Wiki has the PC version... which you will rarely ever encounter. Some places are at least a bit polite about it and try to go with the neutral ¨i´M not against GYPSIES¨, but against what CERTAIN GYPSIES DOOO...¨, but outright hatred is extremely openly expressed... Basically whenever something happens blame it on the gypsies.
"Sure, we enslaved them for a few centuries only to send them to nazi camps soon after they got freed but they should be part of society! why do they get free places at schools(places which they rarely ever use anyway) when I have to work hard? FFS I have a gipsy at my workplace, I mean it's good that they want to become people and all but do they have to do it near me? Why don't the gypsies get jobs? Why do they smell funny?". Whenever the EU tries to do anything in their favor people jump shouting "positive discrimination" and a vicious circle has been formed which pretty much makes it impossible for most gypsies to fit in. The schools don't like them cause they're gypsies and they don't go to school => they drop out cause they are not wanted => gypsies don't go to school. => gypsies are judged for not going to school.

Same for workplace, homes, what not.

Here, have 5000 comments filled with sweet sweet hatred. http://en.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/comment...s_so_much/

qwertyytrewq Wrote:While we're on the subject of drug addictions, I read Japan has a reputation for smoking as well, though I don't know if it was a realistic reputation or an overstated/exaggerated one. As a preowned goods importer, it does annoy me when a few items smell of smoke or has been turned yellow by smoke.

Japan as a whole does have one good thing on its side and it is its treatment of second hand electronic goods. A common joke is that a "mint condition" item being sold on eBay (America) would be considered "not very good condition at all" in Japan. It depends on the individual of course but generally speaking, it is true.

Japan has been slow to adopt Western stances (lol imagine that!) on smoking bans and anti-smoking campaigns. They now have programs in schools to encourage teens not to smoke, which is good. Till recent though Cigs were still really cheap. I believe recently though they either passed or were talking about instigating a hike on the tax on tobacco. Smoking has been slowly decreasing in Japan I think, but its still there. Its still ok to smoke in bars, restaurants, pachinko parlors, manga cafes, etc. Lots of malls now have "smoking rooms" though for smokers, but lots of populated areas with pedestrian traffic now have "anti-smoking zones" where you supposedly can't smoke but I don't know how enforced that is by the police.

I've come to believe that "second hand" in Japan tends to refer to some sort of system where retailers sell extra inventory to clear out space. Some stuff is just way too new in my opinion to have ever been used by people. The only thing I can think of to account for this, assuming it really was owned by someone, is that there are a lot of Japanese that want to always have the latest, greatest thing so they constantly recycle/resell something that's only a few months old.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corruption_...ions_Index
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Press_Freedom_Index
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_Peace_Index

See relative positions of Italy and Japan.

At least they pick up your trash in Japan. In Italy...

http://ecocentric.blogs.time.com/2011/05...sh-crisis/

"The Italian Army arrived in Naples today to help the city deal with some 2,000 tons of uncollected garbage"

Apparently this has now become the "Wopland sux" thread. I'm surprised that we went so long without one - after all, judging by Axis Powers Hetalia, Italians are Japan's "cheese[or maybe pasta]-eating surrender monkeys"

Would be kinda funny if it turned out that leonardodiregrettorino isn't actually from Italy. When I first saw his screenname I thought it was just a silly play on the word "regret". I mean, y'all don't really think that I actually come from Peterhof, right?

Hyperborea Wrote:

Surreal Wrote:WHAT. Are you trying to say that what hyperborea posted doesn't mean anything, because they're isolated cases? Don't you think that the fact that these kinds of cases, and the reactions (like the none too unusual firing of innocents that are somehow related to the incident) are allowed to happen means something?

No, I wasn't saying that they don't mean "anything" - they are sad cases of human tragedy. However, you can't draw conclusions from isolated anecdotes. If you add more anecdotes they don't add up and become data without a very large statistical sample.

If you ask just about anything about a large enough group you can find examples of anything. Does it prove anything? Nothing at all except the gullibility of the listener.

Surreal Wrote:What the hell, dude?

Indeed, what the hell, dude?

Are Swedes cannibals?

Why yes, they are. I've found an anecdote about some so that means that they all are or at least that it's rampant. If I find more then it just become true, right?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-...-unit.html

Quote:Sweden's most evil couple - a cannibal and a Satan-worshipping vampire - have applied to get married behind the bars of their secure psychiatric hospital.

Isakin Jonsson, 33, has asked human vampire Michelle Gustafsson, 23, to join him in unholy matrimony in a move that has shocked the country.

He killed mother-of-five Helle Christensen - his girlfriend at the time - by cutting her head off, eating parts of her body and then boasting about it on the Internet.

Does it prove anything? Why no it doesn't but it sure is sensational. It also sells a lot of tabloid newspapers.

But he wasn't even trying to provide a set of data to draw conclusions from, he was responding to someone who explicitly said they wanted to hear about cases in which racism was involved. And of course murder happens in any country; however, like I said earlier, the way that authorities dealt with the cases can tell you something about what is allowed by(or at least can slip by without being handled properly by) Japanese society. Moreover, ronnihonjin (whoops I just noticed I accidentally wrote your name instead of his in my last post) never tried to imply that Japanese as a group would be cannibals, that's just you shouting at a strawman.

I've had my fair share of disappointments in Japan, but also some of the most wonderful times of my life there. Oddly enough the best moments were in the 田舎 with old people, the worst in the city with Japanese people who should know better.

Not everything in these rants is a valid point, I think, but I must agree with quite a few others.

Hashiriya Wrote:Make sure to ALWAYS carry your passport on you when you go!

I've once been stopped by the police late at night and didn't have my passport with me. I convinced them to follow me to my place where I showed them the passport. While we were walking there, they repeatedly insinuated that I must be a visa overstayer because I spoke good Japanese (which I actually didn't at the time, but well…). But in all fairness, once they saw my passport and short-term visa they were fine with it.

Also, up until at some point in 2004 or 2005, there were many Israeli and Iranian street hawkers in Tokyo. I saw with my own eyes how one of them was brutally arrested because he couldn't produce an ARC. And by brutally I mean face on the pavement, knee of the policeman between his shoulder blades, even though he put up no resistance whatsoever. I've seen arrests in Canada and the UK, but nothing like that yet.

So I always carry my passport with me. I'm not worried about losing it, because it would surely turn up at the next 交番. Point in favour of Japan in my book.

Diana Wrote:Also for comparison, do Japanese people make fun of people with broken Japanese?

Yes, and yes.
Happens all the time at my company, happens in high school, happened in university to me here.

Yes. Happens all the time. If you haven't experienced that, I would venture either your Japanese is absolutely amazing, or so poor that you don't notice. Actually happens in China, too, if you're in the countryside.

Ignorance, by the way, can be a blessing. I'm not questioning anybody's Japanese chops here (I'm inferring from reading many posts that yudantaiteki and others have delved into the language far deeper than I have). But I had an Asian colleague in Montreal who swore that French Canadians were not racist. Well she also didn't speak French. I do, fluently, I'm not Asian, and I couldn't believe the things people were saying.

And yes, some Japanese are quite racist, often individually, and institutionally as well. Not as racist as some Koreans I've experienced, though. At least people in Japan are not embarrassed if their friends find out they have a foreign friend.

ronnihonjin Wrote:The substandard quality of accommodation in Japan is really quite mind boggling.

No, no, no. You should try the British Isles to get some perspective. At least in most of Japan it's warm in the summer.

leonardodiregrettorino Wrote:Politeness: The Japanese are not sincerely polite.

Actually Brits and Canadians aren't sincerely polite either, but it's better if someone says "Have a nice day" and isn't sincere, than if a random guy who thinks you're in the way says "get the f*k out" and means it.

leonardodiregrettorino Wrote:Empathy: There is no empathy here.

Must agree here, especially when it comes to kindness to strangers in need. Nobody will help you, whether you're a foreigner or a local.

leonardodiregrettorino Wrote:Sexualization of children (…)

Sexual crimes: Sexual crime and deviancy here is rampant. I do not know a single woman here who has not been molested. (…)

Safety Japan: Japan likes to paint itself as a safe country. (…) And let's not even mention the fact that the police pretty much allow the Yakuza to work freely throughout the country. The Yakuza are even, oddly enough, kind of a source of national pride. It blows my mind.

This is the side of Japan that troubles me the most. And no, there is absolutely no point in denying that underage prostitution is rampant in Japan, and that teenagers selling their bodies to middle-aged men is tolerated, and if anyone is blamed, it's the girls themselves.

Great book on this (and other things): http://www.amazon.com/Think-Global-Fear-...0801444187

I think that a lot of it has to do with the rotten political system that has perpetuated 自民党 staying in power for so long. Explains much of the police behaviour, the legal system's failings, what's taught in schools, and why there is so much of this rubbish 日本人論 out there that to me comes in a straight line from pre-WWII ideology. Befu Harumi and Peter Dale have written great stuff about that.

Final point, and I'm sure this will tick some people off: I think it's ok to say that there are some things we do better in the West. Not some random cultural trait, but if we used to do it ourselves and overcame it. Even thirty years ago, women were regularly blamed for inviting rape, but less so today. Japan is just simply backward, not different, in the whole gender relation thing. Open racism is much less tolerated today than in the past in the US, Canada, most of Europe, but still fine in Japan.

[Zgarbas]

If you're going by "better now than it was 30 years ago" on racism and feminism I think you can say the same about Japan. They were far behind then, so they're still behind now. Proportionally it should be the same, no?

Zgarbas Wrote:They were far behind then, so they're still behind now. Proportionally it should be the same, no?

Er, no. If the Socialist party had governed Japan a few times between 1955 and 1993, I'm pretty sure things would look a little different. Maybe not like Denmark or Sweden, but perhaps like Germany or Austria.

I know I don't really have anything to contribute to the discussion, not having ever been to Japan, but I can't help but feeling that as I read through this thread there should be a sad, sad song playing in the background XD

Like some other people said, you need to take a balanced view. However, I think "You'd probably have the same experience in ANY foreign country" is a much different argument than "You're doing it wrong, so your opinion is invalid" which is how most of these types of comments are coming off as. This may be unintentional, but if you're going to make this type of comment I advise you to check yourself, and make sure you aren't being unnecessarily negative or judgmental.

However, I do appreciate the youtube video posted by mosunshine. Japan seems to be a stunningly beautiful place, and despite all its flaws, I still want to go there someday.

mosunshine Wrote:Here is a video for you to get a bit of an insight of what you might have to face in the country .
http://youtu.be/atrUv7qb4P8

LivingNexus Wrote:However, I do appreciate the youtube video posted by mosunshine. Japan seems to be a stunningly beautiful place, and despite all its flaws, I still want to go there someday.

mosunshine Wrote:Here is a video for you to get a bit of an insight of what you might have to face in the country .
http://youtu.be/atrUv7qb4P8

but it's so selective!

including okinawa is like including hawaii for the US.

narrow angles prevent you from seeing how blocked off the sky is because of the towering architecture.

see the video in shinsekai in osaka? turn the corner and there's porno stores everywhere.
kyoto looks pretty until you realize that most of the other streets still look like the rest of urban japan. you really have to look for those nice streets.

but it's really the same wherever you go anyway...

one day i was driving on the 110 freeway in LA, through south LA. it looked great. palm trees lining the sky, bright sunshine, buildings that aren't very tall allowing you to see the ocean and the mountains in the distance on a clear day. but then I thought that if I got off one of the offramps, and I'd be in a dirty slum where I really wouldn't want to open the doors or even roll down the windows.

Irixmark Wrote:So I always carry my passport with me. I'm not worried about losing it, because it would surely turn up at the next 交番. Point in favour of Japan in my book.

You don't need to carry your passport after you have your ARC. Even tourists sticking around in Japan for more than 30 days are technically required to get an ARC (my friend had to get one while on tourist visa in order to change from tourist->working while in Japan).

Your passport should be at home locked away somewhere safe.

Quote:Actually Brits and Canadians aren't sincerely polite either, but it's better if someone says "Have a nice day" and isn't sincere, than if a random guy who thinks you're in the way says "get the f*k out" and means it.

Pretty much it. For all the people complaining about the "insincerity" of Japanese, do they really want people walking around saying whats exactly on their mind? "Piss off." "F* off!" "Hell you looking at?!" "Oh hell. Another stupid customer! Don't you go anything better to do!?!"

Quote:This is the side of Japan that troubles me the most. And no, there is absolutely no point in denying that underage prostitution is rampant in Japan, and that teenagers selling their bodies to middle-aged men is tolerated, and if anyone is blamed, it's the girls themselves.

Whose fault is this though? Is it the fault of the middle-age man paying the girl? Is it the fault of the parents for not raising the girl with higher standards? Is it the fault of consumer society that makes people want more money to buy 3man handbags? Or clothes?

A lot of these girls doing this prostitution though are simply looking for a bit of extra money to spend each month. Its not like many are being pushed to prostitute by a pimp or anything; though it does happen on occasion. Prostitution with the absence of a coercive pimp, is a victimless crime. Both parties are consenting to the act. We could sit here and argue that minors can't legally consent to anything, but I still think 14-16 year old is smart enough to think through stuff and make a decision on having sex, in the same way that an 18+ yr old can.

Underage (+15) 'prostitution', 'quasi-pornography', as long as it is not coerced, why is it thought to be immoral or for some people 'sickening'?. Didn't people marry this young centuries ago?.

EDIT:+

At 15 you are most usually mature enough to know what sex is about and many people at that age are already having sex, so if these girls are 'selling their bodies' is not like they don't know what's happening or what they are doing, they know well. And what if they are just having fun while making some money from it?.

turvy Wrote:Underage prostitution, pornography, as long as it is not coerced, why is it thought to be immoral or for some people 'sickening'?.

Is this really a direction we want to go with this thread....?

@LivingNexus "Japan seems to be a stunningly beautiful place, and despite all its flaws, I still want to go there someday."

You should absolutely go there. Japan is a beautiful country to visit. The advice in this thread only applies if you plan to live there. That's when you have to deal with some harsher aspects of life in Japan.

don't be so ridiculous.

Young teenagers are in no way capable of making decisions like that. You can even argue that older teens aren't.

It's one thing to have consentual sex with someone that they have feelings for, who is also around their own age, and something totally different to have sex for money with older strangers. Pimp or not, there are close to always going to be very difficult emotional consequences.

i suggest reading about teenage brain development for starters:
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story...=124119468
http://ngm.nationalgeographic.com/2011/1...dobbs-text

And yes, people used to marry at that age centuries ago. They still do in some countries. Fortunately, we've now grown some understanding of why that's not a brilliant idea, both psychologically and physically. Perhaps you should read up on the facts before you start spouting your ever-so-intelligent opinions.

Eikyu Wrote:@LivingNexus "Japan seems to be a stunningly beautiful place, and despite all its flaws, I still want to go there someday."

You should absolutely go there. Japan is a beautiful country to visit. The advice in this thread only applies if you plan to live there. That's when you have to deal with some harsher aspects of life in Japan.

Are there many good beaches? I've always wanted to visit a beach with white sand and clear water ; _ ;

Okinawa has nice beaches, blue water and a tropical climate, but it's a trip of its own. Unless it's a high budget trip, it's quite hard to fit both a visit to Japan and Okinawa.

There are plenty of nice beaches elsewhere around Japan, but no clear water.

IceCream Wrote:don't be so ridiculous.

Young teenagers are in no way capable of making decisions like that. You can even argue that older teens aren't.

It's one thing to have consentual sex with someone that they have feelings for, who is also around their own age, and something totally different to have sex for money with older strangers. Pimp or not, there are close to always going to be very difficult emotional consequences.

i suggest reading about teenage brain development for starters:
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story...=124119468
http://ngm.nationalgeographic.com/2011/1...dobbs-text

And yes, people used to marry at that age centuries ago. They still do in some countries. Fortunately, we've now grown some understanding of why that's not a brilliant idea, both psychologically and physically. Perhaps you should read up on the facts before you start spouting your ever-so-intelligent opinions.

I think the only valid argument here is about whether or not we should create laws to protect the "emotional fragility" of minors.

The articles you linked only point to lack of effective planning and impulse control of teens. Responsibility though, sort of the culmination of these things, in my experience, only seems to come to fruition when you put people in the position that requires it.

I just take issue with laws that will punish people for having sex with someone who looks like a grown up but may lie about their age. Someone mind you, who exercised their own will to go and put up an ad to "meet and have fun" 〈交際）. And then you want to turn around and punish the man because he should have checked an ID to see if they were 18+ because we wouldn't want to destroy anyone's "emotional state." If you ask me the real victim here is the man. Its not like many of these people are running around playgrounds asking 8 year olds to come and take a ride with him. They are getting on bulletin boards and 出会い sites and [probably] looking for just some 19-20 to screw. And the high schoolers are putting up their contact information and saying "lets meet!"

I agree with what LivingNexus said though, I really don't want to derail this thread. But I think some of the [underage] prostitution laws are just too far sweeping in some instances and just a load of bullshit. Especially when you consider the punishments that often get doled out.

turvy Wrote:At 15 you are most usually mature enough to know what sex is about and many people at that age are already having sex, so if these girls are 'selling their bodies' is not like they don't know what's happening or what they are doing, they know well. And what if they are just having fun while making some money from it?.

At the risk of pointing out the obvious..

From the girl's perspective - who says it's "fun"? once money is involved there will be pressure to do things she is not comfortable with, with a man she's not in love with and possibly not even attracted to. It has the potential to screw her up emotionally for the rest of her life (not to mention she'll be stigmatised if she's caught). Yes I'm sure some girls enjoy it, just like some adult escorts enjoy their jobs, but there's huge potential for emotional harm so why risk it?

From the man's perspective - why on earth would a salaryman aged 30-50 want to date a girl in her early teens? What do they have in common? What will they talk about? Do you think this is going to be a healthy relationship with loving respectful sex? Even if they do fall in love, will the relationship last long term. Again, too much risk of damage to the girl.

As you and Icecream pointed out, young marriage/sex died out centuries ago in all civilised countries; It is hugely embarrassing for Japan to allow this to go on in this day and age.

Love has nothing to do with sex (You can enjoyably have love without sex and sex without love).
Prostitution is not dating. Why are you talking about having things in common or conversation?