I am out. I got a job last week in Australia, and I am leaving here next week. Been here 12 years, and I do not have a single second thought about leaving. The only things I will miss are the other foreigners I got to know here, and I feel for them because I've had good friends leave on me and I felt gutted. It thrills me that my children aren't going to grow up Japanese. I feel like I am saving their lives.
This place is so finished, It's like I'm in the movie 2012 and the runway will be crumbling as the plane takes off, everything collapsing around it. Reality will catch up to Japan soon, and it's is going to take this place down.
Really sad, but they have no one else to blame but themselves.

Wow. I feel like someone just vomited a huge load of bile right onto this forum. (but that's OK, it's actually a pretty good rant on why you hate Japan). I'm just gonna pick on a few points.

"How little these students know of the world is staggering." That's probably going to be true in many countries. 15 year old don't know sh** about the world.

"From an early age they are segregated by sex, even through high school. By the time students enter university, they have had, I would estimate, about as much time interacting with non-family members of the opposite sex as your average Western five year old. "

Most Japanese go to coed high schools and do have some experience with members of the opposite sex, though that doesn't mean that they're able to interact with them in a smart and mature fashion.

"Japan likes to paint itself as a safe country." Japan is a pretty safe country.

"We, the West, came and brought them out of the iron age and into the modern world." That's pretty condescending. No other country was able to use Western knowledge like Japan.


"They show no appreciation nor gratitude for all that we have given them, and it sickens me" Let's be realistic. How many Americans feel indebted to France for winning the American revolution?

Eikyu Wrote:How many Americans feel indebted to France for winning the American revolution?

Thank god he wasn't comparing Japan to America. He was comparing it to the [civilized] Europeans.

I just got home from a class called "Taller de lengua y literatura Japanesa," or "Japanese language and literature workshop". I'm in Mexico. The whole thing was in Spanish. The other participants are starry-eyed Japanophiles whose dream is to actually go to Japan. Don't get me wrong. I love visiting Japan, but I don't want to live there. For me the point is not whether "the rant" is factually correct or not. What's important is that the rant is a normal reaction to living in Japan and people who are investing their entire beings into getting to Japan should know this. So, I think the writer probably did some folks a service.

Tzadeck Wrote:The fact is, I don't believe that the claim about the kid is true. Ronnihonjin hasn't exactly been posting in such a way to make me trust the way he filters which information is true and which information is not true. That's not meant as an attack on him, it's just that when I accept a fact or story as true I always err on the side of caution. Any anecdote I hear I assume to be false without some sort of evidence, but ronnihonjin seems to accept anecdotes with relative flippancy. I really only believe people once they've proven to me that they are good at filtering out the true from the false (for example, I would generally believe something yudantaiteki or Ice Cream or someone like that would say, since reading their posts has proven to me that they can do that).

The original point was that Japanese houses, workplaces and school are uncomfortably hot or cold. Also that the Japanese use kerosene heaters indoors, which sounds bizarre for such an advanced 1st world country (they're dangerous and dirty compared to electric heating).

This are interesting points and I'm curious as to whether they're true; not sure why you're so hung up on this kid fainting anecdote?

well I think you must realize that like many countries in the industrialized world Japan has a public education system and government. This means that the people are likely to be brain dead, slave-like zombies who have very little creativity, and/or free thought. This is the same in America, Canada, UK, Germany, China, India, etcetc....
As murray rothbard once put it "For libertarians regard the State as the supreme, the eternal, the best organized aggressor against the persons and property of the mass of the public. All States everywhere, whether democratic, dictatorial, or monarchical, whether red, white, blue, or brown." the thing is there is no difference between the yakuza and the japanese government, they are both equally the same, if you dont pay your taxes you go to prison and are treated like crap, for the yakuza if you dont pay your protection fees, the beat you up, its all the same stuff.

the fact of the matter is, japan, like many other countries has a government and public schooling(brainwashing) system. Move where you want to, dont steal from other people, or commit fraud, or harm people, and you will suceed in life. Easy as that.

Sean2 Wrote:For me the point is not whether "the rant" is factually correct or not. What's important is that the rant is a normal reaction to living in <ANOTHER COUNTRY> and people who are investing their entire beings into getting to <ANOTHER COUNTRY> should know this. So, I think the writer probably did some folks a service.

@leonardo something O ranter

Your story is a story of failure, but Japan didn't fail you, you failed it. Why? Because you are most definitely not the only person who has realized any of this, whether is true, false or partially true/false. The current state of things is not dramatically worse or better than 20 years or 100 years ago, yet you read and learn about stories of amazing success from many different people, Japanese, foreigners in Japan, etc.

Why is it that your post does not talk about how incredible Japan was for you and everything that you accomplished here and how you, not without a struggle for sure, found your way through its darker paths?. Because you didn't accomplish anything.

leonardodiregrettorino Wrote:...

Sounds like another case of unrealistic expectations topped with a healthy dose of superiority complex. Japan is a real country populated by real people. Most of your complaints are equally applicable to any other country I've lived in.

It's interesting how despite you and I having lived here for approximately the same length of time, our experiences are completely different.

rechools
Public middle/high schools have entrance exams, thus stupid kids tend to all go to the same schools. Your friends may have been teaching at "stupid kid" schools (I was when I was a teacher for a short time). Also, private school attendance is very high for those who are achievers. A very high percentage of people I know went to private schools here, whereas I don't know any back home.

Jarvik7 Wrote:Sounds like another case of unrealistic expectations topped with a healthy dose of superiority complex.

This.

Jarvik7 Wrote:

leonardodiregrettorino Wrote:...

Sounds like another case of unrealistic expectations topped with a healthy dose of superiority complex.

And this sounds like another case where someone cannot imagine a person having a bad time in Japan unless it's their own fault.

Zon70 Wrote:well I think you must realize that like many countries in the industrialized world Japan has a public education system and government. This means that the people are likely to be brain dead, slave-like zombies who have very little creativity, and/or free thought. This is the same in America, Canada, UK, Germany, China, India, etcetc....

It's not the same at all. In my UK education, we do a lot of creative classes (art, poetry, creative writing) but more importantly, for our regular classes we were always taught critical thinking, i.e. to question everything.

A bunsen burner turns yellow when you add sulphur - why? Hitler invaded poland - what for? What do you think of this poem; how does it make you feel? etc etc. Most homeworks were essay based - research this topic, and write about why? what for..? What do you think of...?? The only subject that was purely fact-based was maths.

In Taiwan (where I currently reside), schools are the polar opposite. Let's take chemistry class for example; teacher will say "here is a list of elements and a list of what colours they change the bunsen burner flame to. Lets all chant the table together, then homework write the table out 10 times, then next class you'll be testing on how well you remember it". Then onto the next topic. Of course the kids then instantly forget all the previous facts, because they just crammed them all into their heads and didn't really understand (or care) what they were learning.

That's how education works here. Memorise facts -> test -> forget. I work in a cram school, and the lack of knowledge of the older students is astounding. They don't know *anything* about the world, or even about Taiwan. Also they have *zero* hobbies and personalities - life is just to school, then go to cram-school, go home, do homework, watch TV, bed.

They also are totally unable to answer any question that doesn't have a clear exact right or wrong answer. Forget about asking "what do you think of..?" or "why do you think..?". The response is always "I don't know". That's even if they reply at all; after 8 years of learning English at school and at a private cram-school, 90% of my students are unable to string 2 sentences together. Madness..

Yudan:

Does that post honestly read like someone just had a bad experience totally beyond his control? I agree that it's very easy to have a bad experience if you get sucked into a bad job or relationship, but that's true everywhere.

He is damning the country as being fundamentally flawed because its not a perfect paradise (who worship him because he is from a country that invented stuff).

The major rants always boil down to:
-Experiencing life as a minority for the first time (applies everywhere)
-Had a crap job (applies everywhere)
-Had unrealistic expectations (applies everywhere)
-Can't speak the language so always an outsider (applies everywhere)
-Just can't mold self into a new culture (applies everywhere)

There are a lot of things to complain about Japan, but no one ever seems to get at them because they are not significant enough to rage quit a country over.

I have lived in Japan and traveled there a lot. My experiences have been mostly good, but I still understand how someone can get to the end of there ability to "take it." In the last few years many friends who had been living in Japan for years have returned to the states and I have heard the rant. Most of these friends have regained their balance. They didn't hate Japan or Japanese people. Generally, they had the kind of jobs that people envy. But, I do believe the pressures of Japan are not like those of most other countries. I'm in a fairly wealthy part of Mexico at the moment and although I am a foreigner here I am not a FOREIGNER. BTW, I'm an unremarkable middle-aged woman. On a recent trip to Tokyo a young woman I had just met spontaneously hugged me in a train. I didn't mind, but I can understand how the endless treatment as other could get to someone.

Jarvik7 Wrote:

leonardodiregrettorino Wrote:...

It's interesting how despite you and I having lived here for approximately the same length of time, our experiences are completely different.

This is it. The people who post the 'I had a shit time in X country because' posts should be asking themselves why THEY specifically had a shit time, cos let's face it, there are a ton of people having a good time in the same place.

I also like the intro, I have a wife, a kid and a stable job etc. Cos obviously if you have those you should be happy right...?

[Zgarbas]

The same goes for I have a great time in X country because...

Some people really do have good luck and fail to see certain flaws of a place because of their particularly good experience, and vice versa =/. I'd take the "Japan is amazing" with as much of a grain of salt as "Japan is horrible " stories. It's hard to see past your own experiences.

(I loved the city I live in now before I moved in and had spent a considerable amount of time here before moving... I really started hating it after less than a year).

The "Japan is the best country ever" people also tend to have a shallow grasp on realities (since they've generally only been here a short time as students or tourists if at all) and they help feed the unrealistic expectations of newcomers. Don't think I'm one of them.

[Zgarbas]

I don't. I just think that luck plays an important factor in one's impression of a place.

(that said, I'm totally afraid of going to any Japanese city ever because of the chikans. All the lack of pickpockets in the world can't compensate for them. )

I think that luck does play a part, but over the course of a few years you can make your own luck.

Yep perverts are definitely a bad part of Japan, it's a big shame that while Japan is super safe for guys, it's much less so for women.

Jarvik7 Wrote:The major rants always boil down to:
-Experiencing life as a minority for the first time (applies everywhere)
-Had a crap job (applies everywhere)
-Had unrealistic expectations (applies everywhere)
-Can't speak the language so always an outsider (applies everywhere)
-Just can't mold self into a new culture (applies everywhere)

I don't really see how any of these points fit leonardodiregrettorino's rant?

I made this point before, but it's funny how quick posters are to try and invalidate people's opinions. If you have the opposite experience, then share it rather than continually insinuating that its the posters fault..

If people really can speak the language and have tons of Japanese friends (male and female), who are all genuine, mature and knowledgeable about the world, and a great job where the work environment is superior to the West, then TELL US ABOUT IT! Counter each of his points with a positive tale, rather than just "you must have f'ed up".

Jarvik7 Wrote:The major rants always boil down to:
-Experiencing life as a minority for the first time (applies everywhere)
-Had a crap job (applies everywhere)
-Had unrealistic expectations (applies everywhere)
-Can't speak the language so always an outsider (applies everywhere)
-Just can't mold self into a new culture (applies everywhere)

In other words, you are confirming what I said. Can't possibly be anything about Japan, it's all his fault.

(His rant may be a bit over the top but to suggest that it's all his fault is just the same thing but in the other direction.)

The majority of his complaints are equally applicable to any other country once a little perspective is applied. Thus it's not Japan itself that causes his misery.

Do you really think he's going to quit his great paying job and drag his family to another country (which ends up in divorce in almost every case I've heard of) just because Japanese men cannot socialize with women (false but whatever) and kids at bad schools are dumb?
I'm guessing points 1, 3, 4 (at least enough to be comfortable in any circumstances), 5 apply, plus the bizarre superiority complex about how Japan gives nothing to the world compared to his country (what does he contribute personally?).

It is perfectly possible to have a bad experience of no fault of one's own, but the poster never listed any personal experiences other than how he can't trust his workmates with secrets. A bad experience doesn't mean the whole country and its society is shit either.

aphasiac Wrote:If people really can speak the language and have tons of Japanese friends (male and female), who are all genuine, mature and knowledgeable about the world, and a great job where the work environment is superior to the West, then TELL US ABOUT IT! Counter each of his points with a positive tale, rather than just "you must have f'ed up".

I can kinda speak the language, have a good amount of Japanese (and foreign) friends (male and female), who are genuine, mature and knowledgeable about the world to varying degrees but I like them all, I have a job where the money isn't great but the hours are fantastic and I have freedom to do lots of other stuff.

I'm not gonna go through that whole post countering stuff though, would take too long.

Hmm... many an interesting post.
I think Japan can let some people down, and get others to really find themselves.
It really depends on where you go, who you meet... kind a like a box of chocolates
Here is a video for you to get a bit of an insight of what you might have to face in the country .
http://youtu.be/atrUv7qb4P8

Zgarbas Wrote:(that said, I'm totally afraid of going to any Japanese city ever because of the chikans. All the lack of pickpockets in the world can't compensate for them. )

Molesters are an issue but they are not such an issue that a foreigner should be afraid about it when visiting. At most you might have to watch out for the odd drunk business man saying things to you or coming on to you (but then how is that different from any other place with drunkards really).

aphasiac Wrote:I made this point before, but it's funny how quick posters are to try and invalidate people's opinions. If you have the opposite experience, then share it rather than continually insinuating that its the posters fault..

Way I see it, there wouldn't have been any issue with his opinions had he written it with an air of: "I came to Japan and have been here for 5 years, in this time I've realized that Japan just isn't my cup of tea and here is why..."
But no, he wrote a post saying "Japan lied to me! Japan is a couple problems short of being a 3rd world country. Its all Japan's fault! ***** these two-faced backward-ass Japs, I'm going home to a superior civilized country." Yes this is an exaggeration, but this basically what his post was talking about.

The posts following his have simply been pointing out that many of his complaints are seemingly applicable to many other countries around the world; not just Japan! Some of us just want to clarify for some people that might come in this thread and read a post like his or many others in here: "Ya, many of these points are valid, some are personal preference issues, but all of it can be just as likely an issue where you live now. So you shouldn't just automatically write off Japan with these few posts."