Is there a way when reviewing to flip the cards so that you see the Kanji first and guess the keyword instead of keyword to kanji? I've tried looking for an option, but haven't been able to find one that would let me do so. I could always cover up the part of my screen that has the keyword over it, but it's kind of awkward doing that since you can't scroll on the page, you have to move the cover every card.

I know Heisig says to study from keyword to kanji and not the other way around. I'm not really that interested in being able to write kanji though. I'm really only interested in reading, so I'd rather do kanji to keyword.

Writing will help you immensely, but I'm sure you already know that.

To achieve what you want, go to the card layout screen and just swap the contents of the question and answer box.

So, you have already gone through 1658 kanji. You are about to learn that 1659th character, and you create/copy a story for it. The story contains clues for you to reconstruct the character, the clues being Heisig's keywords.

How are you going to be able to recreate this 1659th character when all the time you tested yourself with character->keyword?

@Inny Jan
I only study kanji-keyword. You'll be able to reproduce the story by identifying the primitives involved, and then producing the story, followed by the meaning.

In fairness I did heisig through the first time going keyword to kanji, but I found when I was trying to read that I couldn't recognize any characters as I hadn't learned them in that direction. So doing kanji to keyword is much better for reading...I only did RTK3 that way. Production decks with audio to sentences is I think a better method for what you're talking about, in my opinion.

Hmm, I think I understand how this may work. Thanks.

What I'm doing though is what Heisig recommends. I noticed that when it comes to reading, almost involuntarily, I tend to come up with mnemonics for compounds (like in shinkansen=new+trunk+line, or shinsetsu=parent's+cut). The frequency of encountering the characters (and in the process going from character->meaning), takes care of repetitions/reviews by itself, so there is no need for SRS. With time even those mnemonics for compounds tend to fade. At which point I can read the word in its entirety (and if I can't recall the word, I fallback on the mnemonic).

And I'm still able to write those words (which admittedly requires meaning->character route).

netsplitter Wrote:Writing will help you immensely, but I'm sure you already know that.

To achieve what you want, go to the card layout screen and just swap the contents of the question and answer box.

I was able to figure out on Anki, the problem I had with Anki was I couldn't figure out how to limit it to just the cards I had learned. My question was concerning the kanji.koohii.com review, or is your answer implying that there's a way to link anki with the kanji.kooii review?

Oops, I shouldn't have assumed you meant Anki. I've never used the review tool on this site, so I don't know what you can and can't do with it.

If you go back to using Anki, you can suspend the cards you haven't learned yet. Just sort by Frame # and highlight everything above what you've done and suspend them. Then unsuspend them when you've learned them.

http://userscripts.org/scripts/show/8976

Haven't tried it, but this could be what you are after. You can read about it on this 2008 thread here.

http://forum.koohii.com/showthread.php?pid=5114#pid5114

Hoticehunter Wrote:Is there a way when reviewing to flip the cards so that you see the Kanji first and guess the keyword instead of keyword to kanji? I've tried looking for an option, but haven't been able to find one that would let me do so. I could always cover up the part of my screen that has the keyword over it, but it's kind of awkward doing that since you can't scroll on the page, you have to move the cover every card.

I know Heisig says to study from keyword to kanji and not the other way around. I'm not really that interested in being able to write kanji though. I'm really only interested in reading, so I'd rather do kanji to keyword.

I tried doing kanji to keyword a long time ago but I figured out it just doesn't work that way. You form an image in your mind when you write it from a story. You will eventually be able to write that kanji+recongize that kanji. Then again, your not learning "real" Japanese yet, so it will take time to learn the real ones but it's a step in the right direction.

Hoticehunter Wrote:I know Heisig says to study from keyword to kanji and not the other way around. I'm not really that interested in being able to write kanji though. I'm really only interested in reading, so I'd rather do kanji to keyword.

Don't be lazy, learn to freaking write these kanji, it helps with so many things. Writing is a much more difficult skill, but if you can write a kanji, you automatically can recognize it. Just because you can read a character doesn't mean you can write it. You don't even need pen and paper. Just use your pointer finger and the palm of your hand.

Hoticehunter Wrote:Is there a way when reviewing to flip the cards so that you see the Kanji first and guess the keyword instead of keyword to kanji? I've tried looking for an option, but haven't been able to find one that would let me do so. I could always cover up the part of my screen that has the keyword over it, but it's kind of awkward doing that since you can't scroll on the page, you have to move the cover every card.

For RTK, Look up info on the lazy kanji mod, it might be more interesting for you, and it's certainly a lot better then going Kanji to Keyword. If you want Kanji to Meaning, just pickup a vocab deck like Core2K, at least your learning real words.

ya as someone who studies kanji to keyword... I totally recommend writing. personally I write the sentences out when I get them wrong (or the part I get wrong, time permitting) (if I have pen/paper/time etc).
writing is an awesome mnemonic for some reason...it's like you are hardwiring that information into your brain. also there are lots of times where you think you know something but find out you actually are using the wrong primitive / writing a primitive wrong etc...
also japanese people are SUPER impressed when they see you write nicely. ;D

Daichi Wrote:Don't be lazy, learn to freaking write these kanji, it helps with so many things. Writing is a much more difficult skill, but if you can write a kanji, you automatically can recognize it. Just because you can read a character doesn't mean you can write it. You don't even need pen and paper. Just use your pointer finger and the palm of your hand.

For RTK, Look up info on the lazy kanji mod, it might be more interesting for you, and it's certainly a lot better then going Kanji to Keyword. If you want Kanji to Meaning, just pickup a vocab deck like Core2K, at least your learning real words.

I write every kanji out at least twice. Once in my notebook, and again on my own flashcards. The thing is, I don't ever plan on writing in Japanese. My focus is I'd say 75% reading, 20% listening, 5% speaking/writing. I'm remembering the kanji just fine going kanji->word.

As for learning "real words", I'll assume you're talking about real meanings instead of vocab, as I'm not doing vocab yet, kana/kanji first, then vocab and grammar. I know Heisig's "keywords" are incorrect in a lot of places, but probably 95% of the time, it matches with the wiktionary definition, which I'll take as more likely to be correct than Heisig. For example, I changed the meaning of 連 from take along to connect to better match the definition listed at http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/連

I understand that going from word->kanji is likely more efficient if ones goal is complete fluency in the language, but strangely enough, that's not really my goal and I feel that reversing the order will better help my own personal goals of reading proficiency sooner, fluency later.

Anyway, I found the answer I was looking for in the "Learn More" link: "Reviewing is done from the keyword to the character, and not the other way around. As recommended in James Heisig's method, you should write down the characters while reviewing. Since the book teaches you the stroke order of all the components of the Japanese characters, being able to recall the kanji from the keyword means you are able to write every one of the kanji from memory. There is no planned support for testing kanji the other way round".

Oh well.

[Katsuo]

Hoticehunter Wrote:I know Heisig's "keywords" are incorrect in a lot of places, but probably 95% of the time, it matches with the wiktionary definition, which I'll take as more likely to be correct than Heisig.

I made a table for quick comparison of the meanings given to kanji by various sources. Google Docs Spreadsheet.

Hoticehunter Wrote:

Daichi Wrote:Don't be lazy, learn to freaking write these kanji, it helps with so many things. Writing is a much more difficult skill, but if you can write a kanji, you automatically can recognize it. Just because you can read a character doesn't mean you can write it. You don't even need pen and paper. Just use your pointer finger and the palm of your hand.

For RTK, Look up info on the lazy kanji mod, it might be more interesting for you, and it's certainly a lot better then going Kanji to Keyword. If you want Kanji to Meaning, just pickup a vocab deck like Core2K, at least your learning real words.

I write every kanji out at least twice. Once in my notebook, and again on my own flashcards. The thing is, I don't ever plan on writing in Japanese. My focus is I'd say 75% reading, 20% listening, 5% speaking/writing. I'm remembering the kanji just fine going kanji->word.

As for learning "real words", I'll assume you're talking about real meanings instead of vocab, as I'm not doing vocab yet, kana/kanji first, then vocab and grammar. I know Heisig's "keywords" are incorrect in a lot of places, but probably 95% of the time, it matches with the wiktionary definition, which I'll take as more likely to be correct than Heisig. For example, I changed the meaning of 連 from take along to connect to better match the definition listed at http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/連

I understand that going from word->kanji is likely more efficient if ones goal is complete fluency in the language, but strangely enough, that's not really my goal and I feel that reversing the order will better help my own personal goals of reading proficiency sooner, fluency later.

Anyway, I found the answer I was looking for in the "Learn More" link: "Reviewing is done from the keyword to the character, and not the other way around. As recommended in James Heisig's method, you should write down the characters while reviewing. Since the book teaches you the stroke order of all the components of the Japanese characters, being able to recall the kanji from the keyword means you are able to write every one of the kanji from memory. There is no planned support for testing kanji the other way round".

Oh well.

On this website your probably stuck with Keyword to Kanji, but that doesn't mean you can't go grab an app like Anki and setup your reviews to be however you desire. Again, if you want to do Kanji to Keyword, you can, but I highly recommend the lazy kanji method if you do. You can find more information about it here.

I just think learning a little actual Japanese words while doing RTK can be worthwhile. It doesn't even need to be a focus, it can be an effortless little extra like shown here. You probably could even add this little extra with Lazy Kanji also.