It's probably my first experience of it's kind. Someone treating me as if I'm doing something wrong by studying it, as if I'm doing too much Japanese stuff I need to stop. I've had sceptisism but when people realise I've been sticking with it for the two months or so it's been they normally stay quiet. I'm not trying to be Japanese, I know I'll always be a foreigner, that's not my goal, I'm hella interested in breaking into Japanese literature and visual novels, and so I'm focusing on reading mostly and I feel good that during this 6 week summer break unlike most people I'm actively learning stuff everyday, I feel proud for doing this.

I'll get over it, I already have when I thought well, I have the motivation and confidence to just do what I want to do, whereas the person saying this to me is a quitter. I just can't wait to read that first visual novel or book in Japanese, it'll feel so damn good.

in this thread - gateway drugs

You shouldn't care what others think anyway, is student "A" your father?

Ampharos64 Wrote:I also really agree with Ash_S, about it feeling disheartening if someone was interested in only one aspect. Learning a language is a pretty major endeavour, so it feels kind of a waste to not be interested in exploring lots of different aspects of the culture that knowing the language opens up to you.

I can't recall the last time a Japanese learner (online on an Internet forum or offline), when asked "why are you learning Japanese?", claim "I'm learning Japanese because of anime and ONLY because of anime. I am not interested in anything else about Japan".

Just because the most common/popular answer to that question is "anime" does not imply that they're not interested in anything else. Maybe they're not that interested in anime but they decided to reply "anime" because most people know what it is. Suppose you asked someone you just met in an average social setting: "Why are you learning Japanese?" and instead of replying "anime", they say: "I am learning Japanese because I am passionate about picture scrolls (called e-maki) from 11th to 12th century Japan and how they came to be. I am particularly interested in finding out whether the art depicted in these handscrolls have something to say about gender roles in olden day Japanese society. How about you?"

I can envision three outcomes:

1) "Really? I love e-maki too!" (highly unlikely)
2) "...oh uh... that's cool." *conversation ends*
3) "...um okay." *conversation ends* After the e-maki lover is out of earshot, you say to yourself: "what an elitist f******* fa**ot!"

The point I'm trying to make is that "feeling disheartened" about people who learn Japanese because of anime and ONLY anime is like feeling disheartened about the imminent alien invasion. In other words, both of those entities (people who only learn Japanese because of anime and ONLY anime, and alien invasions) don't exist. What's the point of feeling disheartened about things that don't or won't exist?

I can also guarantee that the majority of people who have a high interest in anime also have a high interest in manga (anime and manga are highly related), or heck, any combination of Japanese things. Seriously, where are these mythical "I learn Japanese because of anime and ONLY anime" creatures?

At this point in time however, in regards to the topic at hand, I believe it to be a strawman fallacy: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man.

In other words, someone here simply "invented a fictitious persona with actions or beliefs which are then criticized", while everyone else continues the discussion under the assumption that this type of person or group exists.

** Above URL is incorrect due to an unnecessary full stop. Correct URL below.

Quote:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man

I reccomend using [ url ] tags for links, just to be sure.

My thoughts on this (oh and hello everyone, I don't know if there is an introduction section, just got here) are very simple; yes, I like anime and manga. That is to say, I am definitely open to learning about and enjoying more of it, and knowing Japanese will undoubtedly aid in that to some degree. People are going to assume what they assume, but I don't care about their opinions, or about there reasons why I SHOULDN'T learn Japanese, because my reasons for doing so are simple.

What the hell else am I gonna do?

I used to spend my free time playing video games, watching cartoons, and reading comics, etc. Now I do all of those things but at the same time, I am learning a language while doing it. As for the utility of the language, now I can't say; I don't know enough yet. But being bilingual is always something I had wanted to achieve, and Japanese is a language I was familiar with more than any other besides my own, so I chose to learn Japanese. Simple, shallow maybe; I don't plan to live in Japan and I don't give a damn about tea ceremonies, but I'd rather use my free time doing that than NOT doing it, because at least in the end I will be able to claim some competence in a second language.

People like to hear others reasons for learning Japanese, I think, because it allows them to feel superior in some way; theirs are more "noble." Mine is completely shallow, but I'm okay with that; just like I'm okay being associated as someone who likes anime even if that is not my primary reason for learning the language.

Because in the end, it doesn't matter what people think, so I don't let it bother me.

It's a good way of justifying learning a language really. Even if there's no massive need for it or desire to visit the country in mind, if it's replacing your spare time with learning something new, why not? No one can tell you not to learn something if that time would be spent doing very little otherwise.

In some ways I get that. It's like 'you can't give up your college studies for Japanese' but in reality I'm just using my free time out of college to learn Japanese, that time I play games and browse the internet mindlessly. So why not, it's a good way to fill spare time and achieve something you might want to do.

I'm with Phosis. The biggest reason why I'm learning Japanese is to consume Japanese entertainment, and I have no shame in saying so. "I'm learning Japanese to watch anime." Are there other perks than just anime? Yes. Do there need to be other perks? No.

Why are people so irritated with other people doing as they like? And why is there such a big goddamn stigma around anime; it's a legitimate artistic medium.

I don't think anyone was stigmatizing anime here, unless you mean elsewhere, but everyone's in agreement that they enjoy anime in general, as well as other entertainment forms such as manga. I think though that it would frustrate people if it's assumed that if they're learning Japanese, they're doing it for anime, understandably so... it'd feel like your efforts or passion are being downplayed...?

I guess for some people, putting the effort in to learn the language, to do something such as read literature... it'd maybe annoy you after a while if the language is constantly being circled back to anime or manga.

There's sort of an undertone in people's comments that anime is a "lessor reason" for studying Japanese. If someone says "I'm studying Japanese to watch anime," they immediately feel the need to follow that with "but of course that's not the only reason I'm studying." Whereas if someone says something like "I'm studying Japanese because I want to vacation there," they don't have to preface the statement with anything. It's like everyone who likes anime is embarrassed that they like it, and they need to distinguish themselves somehow from those filthy "weeaboos."

Even your statement carries this implicit "anime is lessor" vibe to it.

Quote:I think though that it would frustrate people if it's assumed that if they're learning Japanese, they're doing it for anime, understandably so... it'd feel like your efforts or passion are being downplayed...?

I mean, what if we alter your comment so it says this...

Quote:I think though that it would frustrate people if it's assumed that if they're learning Japanese, they're doing it for Haruki Murakami novels, understandably so... it'd feel like your efforts or passion are being downplayed...?

If Japan's biggest cultural export were Haruki Murakami, and people assumed I was learning Japanese so that I could read his novels, I would not feel my efforts are being downplayed. I would simply tell them "no, I don't have much interest in his works. I'm learning Japanese because x."

Necrojesta Wrote:I don't think anyone was stigmatizing anime here, unless you mean elsewhere, but everyone's in agreement that they enjoy anime in general, as well as other entertainment forms such as manga. I think though that it would frustrate people if it's assumed that if they're learning Japanese, they're doing it for anime, understandably so... it'd feel like your efforts or passion are being downplayed...?

I guess for some people, putting the effort in to learn the language, to do something such as read literature... it'd maybe annoy you after a while if the language is constantly being circled back to anime or manga.

I guess so, I just think it's almost more wrong to allow yourself to BE annoyed in that situation; going into anything, passion or not, without expecting people to either misunderstand our outright be hostile to what you are doing is poor foresight. It's a problem if you allow it to become one, but otherwise, rather irrelevant.

There are a lot of people in this world who are spited by anyone who is doing anything; just because they AREN'T. It's best to ignore them, fight back when you have to, but otherwise don't give them an inch into what you are doing. People are really nasty when it comes to jealousy, when they see someone doing something they perceive to be too difficult for them, so the natural reaction is to downplay it in order to preserve their own pride as natural born losers. Conversely, taking a false ownership over your passion by attaching a certain value to it and allowing yourself to feel slighted when your own reason for pursuing it is dismissed in favor or what are perhaps less "legitimate" (or at the very least, not in your interest) reasons is a mistake too, I think. Since others have put it, since Anime and Manga happen to be a prime export from Japan culturally, it is expected that, especially a younger crowd becoming interested will probably revolve around these reasons. A natural divider exists in the fact that those who ARE interested due to vague surface reason will likely not be around long to turn that conversation back to their interests instead of yours; a lot of them will discover it is too difficult, will come to the conclusion that why they are doing it isn't based on sufficient reasoning, and will quickly fade away.

...of course they will probably be replaced with others just like them, and that is why I think it's not a problem with people in general, but just a matter of understanding this WILL happen, and not letting it bug you. It's an annoyance I'll bet; I don't have the problem personally so I don't know how much of one, because I do all of my studying in private anyhow.

It comes with the territory; when you walk in mud, your boots will get dirty no matter how hard you try to keep 'em clean.