kanji elitism isn't so great either...

though i kinda cringe when people say "i hope this game/book/manga doesn't have a lot of kanji in it" because they probably wouldn't know the words even if it was all kana.

whenever i hear people say they like kanji i wonder why...
to me they're just tools that are part of the real job, which is to communicate or transmit an idea. i'm more interested in understanding and enjoying the idea than the way it's conveyed.

I enjoy studying root words because it enhances my ability to extract meaning from english words. projectile is so much more fun a word when you know pro means forward and ject means throw.

kanji is similiar to this I think. we get a glimpse of the meaning just by the parts of the word. we like to see how things are built.

btw when somone asks me why I'm learning chinese since I'm never gonna go to china
I always tell them. 'dude for the 5th time already It's japanese not chinese!.'

I don't see what the big deal is. When people learn I know Japanese (usually from seeing me reading J-lit), they often ask if I'm a fan of anime, which I am, but if I where in your situation, something like "Not really, but I do like Japanese horror films." should work just fine, right?

@vix86: Cheer up, you're not alone
I'm not in the same situation, but somewhat similar - After few years of enjoying manga/anime I wanted to give back to community so I joined few scanlator groups and worked as a cleaner/editor until it started to take too much time and effort to do on weekly basis, so I stopped it. Instead of spending time on that I started learning japanese so I can read raw manga and eventually help with translating(don't think I'll ever be a translator as I have a problem with putting thoughts into words it seems).

Shadeless Wrote:@vix86: Cheer up, you're not alone
I'm not in the same situation, but somewhat similar - After few years of enjoying manga/anime I wanted to give back to community so I joined few scanlator groups and worked as a cleaner/editor until it started to take too much time and effort to do on weekly basis, so I stopped it. Instead of spending time on that I started learning japanese so I can read raw manga and eventually help with translating(don't think I'll ever be a translator as I have a problem with putting thoughts into words it seems).

I thought one needs reading ability in Japanese in order to translate, even if it's manga. Oh you mentioned being a cleaner/editor, sorry my mistake. [This is not sarcasm, please don't interpret it that way] I personally keep finding myself back to Japanese. In reality though, I'm studying pharmaceutical chemistry at the moment, so those two are not related at all....

I wonder what I really will be doing in 10 years from now...

I can relate. I know at least one person who is absolutely convinced that learning Japanese makes me you a weeaboo and any use of Japanese at all (not the random "Kawaii!!!" stuff, but using Japanese terms when talking about Japanese things) is dubbed "moonspeak". I did get interested ages ago because of anime and manga, I won't lie, but a good portion of my family is Japanese, so I stuck with it for other reasons.

Alas, he's far more into anime and manga than I am, but otherwise he's very Japanophobic. I just learned it's useless to even try and correct him.

people just judge other people by what is mainstream. Anime is popular in America now, so that is how people usually relate with Japanese learners. I'm sure people wouldn't think you are learning Japanese because of anime around WWII times.

Funny. I have been studying Japanese for a while and forced myself to fall in love with anime. I never really watched it before. I finally found some shows and their respective manga and now i'm hooked. So, I guess I'm the opposite: I started watching anime because I was studying Japanese. But I guess with all the talk of immersion on here, that (and/or dorama addiction) probably happens to quite a few people.

tashippy Wrote:Funny. I have been studying Japanese for a while and forced myself to fall in love with anime. I never really watched it before. I finally found some shows and their respective manga and now i'm hooked. So, I guess I'm the opposite: I started watching anime because I was studying Japanese. But I guess with all the talk of immersion on here, that (and/or dorama addiction) probably happens to quite a few people.

The thing is that there's such a great variety of different kinds of anime/manga that most people should be able to find something they could enjoy watching. I find the "Do you like anime?" kind of question quite weird. It's almost like "Do you like movies?" - of course there are movies that I like, but saying "I like movies" makes it sound like I'll enjoy any movie I ever watch. Naturally my own response to whether or not I like anime is something like "Not that much, there are some series that I like".

I don`t see why it should matter. I`m currently living in Japan and that`s why I`m learning. Is that a less noble goal? That I left my country while it`s in economic depression for a decent job in a country I`m not wholly familiar about?

Japan seems to have this massive nerd-stigma attached to it in the west. Real Japan is anything but though.

Not that it matters why anyone studies a language. I`ve always wanted to learn French. Why? I like it. That`s all. Never was good at it though. Actively pursuing learning and improving a skill is always a good thing. It doesn`t matter what it is.

TwoMoreCharacters Wrote:

tashippy Wrote:Funny. I have been studying Japanese for a while and forced myself to fall in love with anime. I never really watched it before. I finally found some shows and their respective manga and now i'm hooked. So, I guess I'm the opposite: I started watching anime because I was studying Japanese. But I guess with all the talk of immersion on here, that (and/or dorama addiction) probably happens to quite a few people.

The thing is that there's such a great variety of different kinds of anime/manga that most people should be able to find something they could enjoy watching. I find the "Do you like anime?" kind of question quite weird. It's almost like "Do you like movies?" - of course there are movies that I like, but saying "I like movies" makes it sound like I'll enjoy any movie I ever watch. Naturally my own response to whether or not I like anime is something like "Not that much, there are some series that I like".

Since in the English language the word anime refers exclusively to Japanese animation, I think it's more akin to asking "Do you like French/Soviet/Indian movies?" Someone who has seen many films from a particular country will be aware of the multitude of genres, themes and movements in its film industry and might find the question ridiculous, but someone who isn't that familiar with the industry in question will be judging it either by the most common themes, or by the widespread stereotypes. Thinking that all anime is either hentai or shounen fighters is like thinking that all Soviet cinema is Battleship Potemkin or that all Indian cinema is "Benny Lava".

Mention you like rap music and you'll probably get a reply like "Oh, like 50 Cent?" People only talk about what they know.

qwertyytrewq Wrote:If you wanted to earn my approval, you should state that you are learning Japanese for things like ancient Japanese feudal-era artwork or traditional Japanese architecture. Or even traditional Japanese music, none of that shallow post-19th century stuff.

LOL come on....

By your definition most Japanese people are "shallow" then.

99% of Japanese people could care less about ANY of that stuff. Nor do they know much about it. You think Japanese folks sit at home all day long reading ancient scriptures?? Or flipping through pages of feudal artwork? That stuff is boring as hell to them. Do you sit at home and read Shakespear or Homer? Do you know anything about your own country's traditions from the 19th century? I'd bet you can't even read about that stuff for more than a minute.

Japanese people are just like people from any country, work, make money, eat, drink, gamble, hang out, do "shallow" fun things.

I think a lot of Japanese learners, from what I encounter have a problem actually knowing stuff about Japan, or accepting things about Japan ("Japanese movies are terrible", "J-Pop sucks," "anime sucks").

It's like I'll ask them these questions:

What cool Japanese novels do you know? Can't name any, or can't read.
Know any good Japanese magazines? Don't know any, can't read.
Know any good Japanese movies? Nope, they all suck.
know any good drama? Nope, they suck.
Know any recent current events? Nope, can't read the news, too hard.
Know any good Japanese comedians? Nope, can't understand what they're saying.
Know any good radio shows? Nope, don't understand it.
Know any good Japanese music? No, they all suck
Favorite Japanese writer? Can't name any except for whoever we were forced to read in class.
Favorite Japanese K-1 Fighter? What?? What the hell is that?
Know any cool Japanese websites? Nope, too much slang on there....
You like Japanese Pachinko? No, don't know how it works, our teacher didn't teach us.


So you don't know anything about anything, so why you're learning Japanese? Oh I like the culture, and the tea ceremonies....and the food....

Now that....makes no sense to me.

I'm not saying that you shouldn't love Japanese traditional culture, and if reading books about Japanese culture has improved your Japanese then that's wonderful, but most Japanese people doesn't know how to perform the tea ceremony, or write calligraphy, or like wearing Kimonos, or doing some traditional dance from the 19th century. A lot of this stuff is just straight up boring to them.

If you like that stuff you'd be in the minority.

If you watch Japanese television, you'll see some foreigners who are completely fluent in Japanese. Now those guys, actually KNOW stuff about Japan. They know the best-selling Japanese novel out right now, they know who this singer is, who that guy is, who this author is, what baseball team won the championship in 2004, knows about 日銀デフレ問題, just random interesting things about Japan here and there.....and people wonder how they got fluent.

All this time i thought it was sarcasm.

that's a long reply to a sarcastic message!

Trolling success

It's really very simple.

Either you like learning Japanese or you don't. Who cares what other people think?

Effective troll though. Nonsense begets nonsense.

I haven't logged in to this forum in a while but I felt it was necessary to publicly acknowledge my achievement.

blackbrich Wrote:All this time i thought it was sarcasm.

kainzero Wrote:that's a long reply to a sarcastic message!

Nuriko Wrote:Trolling success

jankensan Wrote:It's really very simple.

Either you like learning Japanese or you don't. Who cares what other people think?

Effective troll though. Nonsense begets nonsense.

Although satisfied at this situation, I am still internally conflicted because I agree with what Realism (ironic username, given the circumstance) says.

Realism Wrote:99% of Japanese people could care less about ANY of that stuff.

Realism Wrote:could care less

This is for your own benefit but it's better for me to correct you than someone else, who will also do the same thing, except in a harsher way. This also happens to be one of my pet Internet hates.

The correct usage is "couldn't care less". As shown on the graph, your hypothetical "99% of Japanese people" would be in blue area (above zero). A person who couldn't care less (i.e. a person who doesn't not care at all, not even a tiny bit) would be located in the red area.

qwertyytrewq Wrote:doesn't not care at all

Following strict logic if not negates doesn't than that phrase reads. do care at all. Uhh...?

Inny Jan Wrote:

qwertyytrewq Wrote:doesn't not care at all

Following strict logic if not negates doesn't than that phrase reads. do care at all. Uhh...?

That's true, but I think it's a typo. It was obviously supposed to be either "doesn't care" or "does not care" but I ended up typing both.

That reminds me of a double-negative grammar in Japanese that I learnt recently: ないことはない

e.g. トロルしないことはないが、時間がないんです。

This sentence can be interpreted in two ways but they mean the same thing:

Ex. It is not the case that I do not troll, but I don't have time to troll.
Ex. I do troll, I just don't have time to do so.

I think its bad of you to try and wind people up trolling.

HonyakuJoshua Wrote:I think its bad of you to try and wind people up trolling.

Trolling is in the eye of the beholder. Two people concluded that my post was intended to be sarcastic. The next two explicitly referred to that same post as trolling.

So I'll leave it up to you guys to discuss which is which (if they are separate things) or whether sarcasm is trolling.

Edit: On second thought, in respect of the topic creator, it's better if we don't go off-topic.

Reading the first post again, and to steer the topic in the right direction, the relevant questions of this thread are:

1) Is anime a "legitimate" reason to learn Japanese for? Whether your answer is yes or no, please explain your reasons why.

2) If anime is not a "legitimate" reason to learn Japanese for, or if people are "disheartened" (thread creator's words) when they find out that other people learn Japanese "just" for anime, then what reasons are there for learning Japanese that is not "disheartening"? Possible "non-disheartening"^ reasons for learning Japanese include traditional Japanese music, architecture, or textiles products like carpets and tapestries.

For the second question, I direct you to my previous post: http://forum.koohii.com/showthread.php?p...#pid160194

^Certain words are in quotes in order to represent my non-judgmental and impartial nature.

To be honest, I'm learning Japanese because of Anime. I seriously know nothing more about Japanese than Anime. But I figure that once I start learning Japanese [and viewing native content] I would learn more about Japan.

Marble101 Wrote:To be honest, I'm learning Japanese because of Anime. I seriously know nothing more about Japanese than Anime. But I figure that once I start learning Japanese [and viewing native content] I would learn more about Japan.

I don't feel like this is necessarily a bad reason. I mean, you don't have to learn that much Japanese to be able to watch anime without subs. It's also feels very rewarding when you are finally able to do it. Your study methods should also be pretty easy. Just use subs2srs or something like that. Throw in some grammar study (probably won't need more than JLPT 2級-level), and you should be set!

You probably know all about it, but in case you don't, you might also like Japanese dramas. Check out d-addicts. Maybe there are even live-action versions of some of your favorite anime's?

qwertyytrewq Wrote:quote]
e.g. トロルしないことはないが、時間がないんです。

ah, my work computer (er, 'terminal') doesn't display kanji characters, it's good practice for guessing word and/or meaning through context. Although usually i just copy and paste into google translate which displays the characters without IME. jikan was pretty obvious here...aaaand back to discreet use of ankimobile.