Hey. So, sometimes on this forum, and with certain groups of people in real life, i have also felt like this:

nadiatims Wrote:I am more and more convinced that both women and men for the most part do not actually care about how well or nicely they are treated by the other gender when choosing a partner. They simply aim for the best among the available candidates based on some criterion they have developed while growing up, but eventually settle for what they can get and realize hey it's ok because theres more to life than one's relationship. What I mean is women aim for the alpha man and men aim for the alpha women (talking purely about straight people).

However, i have a feeling it might just be that the voices that come across loudest are those that reaffirm stereotypes, because of cognitive fluency or whatever. Certainly, i know people who do fit the stereotypes, but my tastes are quite different from that.

So, i wanna know what people really think. If you, personally, are just looking for the hottest girl / guy with the most money / someone who's happy to cook and clean for you, i won't shout you down or anything. I'm just looking for some cross section of the truth, from people's personal, honest! perspective.

So, what are your priorities for when you're choosing a long term girlfriend / boyfriend?

*****
I'll start:
* someone who can get as excited and interested as i do about new ideas and places and activities.
* someone i can have interesting conversations and discussions with and learn new stuff, and who is flexible in thought, not dogmatic about stuff, but doesn't know so much that i feel that i have nothing to add.
* who cares about what happens in the world, has a social conscience, and wants to make the world better in some way, even if that isn't directed yet.
* someone who is able to tell me when i get stupid about stuff, and not just agree with everything i say or wimp out if i'm acting badly.
* who has some good qualities that i lack, so that i can admire him and find him mysterious in some way.
* who likes to share experiences, and is kind to me and others, and respectful (that includes being honest, and not cheating).
* someone i find attractive in some way, but doesn't have to be superhot or anything. A cheeky grin, a nice voice, or a nice way of moving is generally good.
* who doesn't berate me and is understanding if i'm in "off" mode.

Like, despite what others say about women choosing men for money, that isn't even on my list. In fact, if they were really into the coporate world, or love high finance or advertising, that would be a negative factor for me.

Oh, and bad guys are lots of fun for a short, fun thing, but i wouldn't want anything serious with that kind of guy.

[Zgarbas]

I never cared about looking for things in a partner and let things come as they may be. Always worked out fine. People spend too much time focusing on trivial things.

I'm not too picky, if I were single and I met someone nice to talk to, likes me and I found them (subjectively) physically attractive (feminine+in shape mostly) I'd probably date them.

Basically if they qualify for friendship and attractiveness then they pass (I'm kinda selective about friends though). Actually that's not strictly true, things like smoking, alcoholism, drugs, promiscuousness would turn me off dating a friend.

Marry me, IceCream!! XD

I don't know that I really have a list like that. Mine's a lot more generic

Comfortable to be around
Good attitude
Nice
Caring
Doesn't nag

Despite how generic my list is, I went like 10 years without a girlfriend before I found my current one.

For me, love is about acceptance. Do they accept me for who I am, flaws and all? Do I still want to hang out with them, flaws and all? I think that's part of a successful relationship. I think there's a huge difference between "being in love" and actually loving someone. I think that in order to love someone, you need to know them really well and see them in many kinds of situations. Being in love can turn into actual love, of course, but it takes time and effort.

You also need to being able to realize that you don't think the same way and need to get good about talking about how you feel and what things are important to you and why.

I think one of the reasons divorces are so high is because
1) People don't know each other all that well (they get married during the "in love" phase, which is unstable)
2) People aren't willing to compromise or don't know how to work through problems.

I think that Romeo and Juliet is actually a comedy Shakespeare wrote to make fun of teenagers. If that's supposed to be the "greatest love story of all time" then there's something wrong with this world. Plot Summary: "You're pretty, Juliet." "You're handsome, Romeo." "We love each other!" "OMG you died! I'm going to kill myself even though I barely know you!"

:-)

Edit: Of course there's also love for family members. You don't wait a few years to love your newborn baby! But that is a bit different I think. In my mind, "to love" is an action and takes effort. "Being in love" is just how you feel (rainbows and sunshine yay!).

What do other people think about my idea that divorce wouldn't be so high were it not for people placing too much importance on romantic love over treating your spouse like a family member?

IceCream Wrote:So, i wanna know what people really think.

That's a big ask. Quite often people don't know what they really think or think about things they have no idea about.

I agree with you dizmox. Your spouse is part of your family after all :-). Though I think romantic love does play a part too, at least in terms of having some kind of sexual attraction. Hopefully that kind of attraction is absent from people related to you by blood though!

I think a lot of people delude themselves very effectively about what they're looking for in a parter. They'll find someone who ticks every box on the official list, but then back away because there isn't "chemistry", which is just another way of saying you have another list that you're not willing to admit. The people who get into repeated destructive relationships are simply looking for the wrong things, regardless of what they think they're looking for.

To me, looks are more about a threshold than a ranking. I don't target the most attractive woman, i target the woman who wins on other qualities who is attractive enough. Lets face it, if you're not attracted to them, a relationship is going to be difficult. Otoh, pretty girls are often boring people (not all of them, of course). A mischievous smile and a twinkle in her eye (you know, that sign of intelligence back there) are far more important to me than looks.

I'd go into more detail, but that's all i'm really sure about. The rest of my list is probably as BS as most people's is.

IceCream Wrote:* someone who can get as excited and interested as i do about new ideas and places and activities.
* someone i can have interesting conversations and discussions with and learn new stuff, and who is flexible in thought, not dogmatic about stuff, but doesn't know so much that i feel that i have nothing to add.
* who cares about what happens in the world, has a social conscience, and wants to make the world better in some way, even if that isn't directed yet.
* someone who is able to tell me when i get stupid about stuff, and not just agree with everything i say or wimp out if i'm acting badly.
* who has some good qualities that i lack, so that i can admire him and find him mysterious in some way.
* who likes to share experiences, and is kind to me and others, and respectful (that includes being honest, and not cheating).
* someone i find attractive in some way, but doesn't have to be superhot or anything. A cheeky grin, a nice voice, or a nice way of moving is generally good.
* who doesn't berate me and is understanding if i'm in "off" mode.

I think this would also qualify as my "ideal" partner, but I somehow doubt that I would pass on someone who was lacking only 1 or 2 of these qualities. If it's being single forever or having to deal with a few personality tics, I think I'll risk the tics.

Probably doesn't help that I've been single for years and my closest friend is always complaining to me how he has to practically beat the women off of him. （笑）

well, i dunno if those are really trivial things. Like, what does "taking things as they come" involve? Going with anyone who shows an interest in you? Basing it all on that initial feeling? Cos that original rush is going to fade, & your life'll move on and stuff.

But yeah, without chemistry, there's no way it can start. I dunno if chemistry really equates to a seperate list though, isn't it attraction + timing + events + the way you think they see you + something about that person in particular's character that makes you wanna be around them. i dunno if it's really definable. But if there was just chemistry but none of those other things, i don't think it would last very long either.

Actually though, i'm pretty much happy on my own, i'm not lonely or anything. So, if someone isn't going to have that much of a positive influence on my life i'm happy to just get on with it on my own, i think. it is fun falling in love though.

i liked jishera's post too, it seems really true. i especially like the distinction between "to love" and "in love".

@tori ahahaha tyty

IceCream Wrote:well, i dunno if those are really trivial things. Like, what does "taking things as they come" involve? Going with anyone who shows an interest in you? Basing it all on that initial feeling? Cos that original rush is going to fade, & your life'll move on and stuff.

This is why it's better to avoid rushes and build up gradually as friends to get to know each other first.

If I started making lists of requirements no one non-fictional would ever be able to fulfil them anyway...

well, i dunno if it's good to completely avoid the rush, it's quite fun. I guess just to maybe think a bit beyond that is good too.

ah... i didn't mean it as such a rigid list of requirements, more that those things are more attractive to me to begin with than hotness, or money, or status in society, or bad guy image, etc.

Of course, the "i'm looking for a hot japanese wife" thread was the reason i was asking. I was wondering if so many people actually rank "hotness" or "asianness" over specific personality and character traits they think would work in a relationship.

Anybody who is saying that physical attraction is not important is not true to themselves - it is, regardless of what you think. But it is one thing to be attracted to a beautiful woman and another to marry her. Looks quickly wear off and with time other qualities become much more important. If you choose your partner for looks only you may end up breaking up/divorcing/becoming unhappy later, so you need to "choose wisely", which can be difficult when emotions are involved.

Ahh, one more thing - my grandma likes to give this as an advice:
"Only men with no imagination marry beautiful women." - take it or leave it, it's your peek.

EDIT: Regrettably, my English is getting worse and worse - fixed some pretty silly typos.

My basic no-compromise criteria:

-Physical attraction
--This doesn't mean she has to be someone idol-quality SUPAR HAWT (I've dated such and eventually got tired of an increasingly irritating personality and her constantly being hit on 24/7), but if I look at her and think "ugh", it's not going to work out.
--Being physically fit is part of this

-Personality/intelligence compatibility
--If I roll my eyes or get annoyed whenever I hear her talk, it's not going to work out

-Spiritual compatibility
--I will never date anyone who is strongly religious and strongly prefer an atheist/agnostic

-Dating style compatibility
--If I want to meet twice a week and she's fine once a month, it's not going to work out
--If she expects metric tons of money to be spent on her, it's not going to work out. If a girl likes you for you, she shouldn't care even if you don't buy her anything at all.

-Sexual compatibility
--If I want it three times a day and she wants it only on valentines day and my birthday, it's not going to work out
--Doesn't sleep around or "date-around"

-Misc.
--Doesn't smoke. Seriously, smokers smell awful and the smell lasts long after you stop smoking. There are also health and cost issues long-term.
--Goals aren't incompatible with mine. She wants kids right now? Not going to work. She wants to volunteer in Cambodia for the next 2 years? Not going to work. She wants to move to Paris because it's おしゃれ? Not going to work.

..and that's about it. A girl with money is great (I've dated one), a girl with a powerful/influential family is great (I'm dating one now), a girl with fantasy inducing properties is great (In the past few years I've dated a nurse, a recent highschool grad, a teacher, an OL, a JTB tour guide, a stylist etc) etc., but those aren't things I actually search for in a partner. "Japanese" doesn't rank at all as a criteria or even a preference, though in terms of statistics more Japanese people tend to be my type than others and I meet a lot more Japanese girls than others as I live in Japan. I'd date a white/black/Korean/whatever just as quickly as a Japanese person if they meet the basic criteria.

I've never actually dated a woman who I've had anything in common with in terms of hobbies or interests and it's never posed an issue aside from having to split my time between interests and gf. My gf likes one of my fav bands so I guess that's something.

After 30 years on this Earth, I've still no idea what I'm attracted to. On paper it's one thing, but so many times I've met someone who doesn't fit that ideal and we just "click". Dating is driven by emotion not logic, so you have to be careful to follow your heart.

One big thing I've realised is that your partner doesn't have to be your best friend. It's cool to have your own interests and separate friend-circles; you don't want to be too dependent on one person for absolutely everything.

Another big thing is - don't be too picky. Alot of girls I know who are single just set their standards unrealistically high. Sorry but you're not living in a Disney movie; you're not going to find this perfect soulmate who will sweep you off your feet. In real life relationships are hard, require a fair bit of work and compromise, and everyone has flaws.

Being 27 and never having been on a date, I would settle for the first person to show any in me interest at all, ...as long I do not find them totally repulsive. I think that situation would be worse than no dates at all.

eggcluck Wrote:Being 27 and never having been on a date, I would settle for the first person to show any in me interest at all, ...as long I do not find them totally repulsive. I think that situation would be worse than no dates at all.

You live in China + You're Western (and therefore a rare commodity). What's stopping you finding a nice English-speaking local to go out with?

aphasiac Wrote:

eggcluck Wrote:Being 27 and never having been on a date, I would settle for the first person to show any in me interest at all, ...as long I do not find them totally repulsive. I think that situation would be worse than no dates at all.

You live in China + You're Western (and therefore a rare commodity). What's stopping you finding a nice English-speaking local to go out with?

Is there a woman in China who can give eggcluck a hug?
eggcluck, seriously you seem like a nice guy, and I realize you are not soliciting advice, but asking a few women out would seriously increase your chances of going on your first date.

I don't search for any qualities in a partner.

I can just feel a connection if it's there.
That's all I look for.

I can feel the sparks flying and it's like there's this invisible energy
drawing us together. That's when I know I've found someone I really like.

As much as possible, I want to be self-sufficient and stand on my own.
If I'm looking for something in other people, it means that
I'm weak and can't do it on my own.

I don't want anyone to do anything for me.
I want to do it all myself.
I don't want to force any stereotype on anyone.
I don't want to mold them to my liking.

Everyone is independent and is free to choose their own way.
In general, I like people that have passion, know what they like, and follow their own way.

Ideally, they'd have hopes and dreams that they'll chase for the rest of their life.
I don't want our relationship to the ultimate joy for them. Their passion has
to come from somewhere else.

From experience, I think the only person you can really trust is yourself.
Don't expect too much of people and you won't be so disappointed.

If you're lucky, you can find someone you can trust.
If you find anyone like that, be good to them, because they are very rare.

Of course, I know humans are weak creatures by our nature and we need each other.

I don't "go on dates".
I just hang out with girls and have fun without any intention to start anything intimate.

You'd be surprised how well that works for me. It's the guy that doesn't want them, that women go crazy for.....yeah...no one said "onna gokoro" (a woman's heart) makes any sense.

While that sounds all nice and romantic, what it sounds like is that you just haven't thought about what causes those sparks (or rather, what causes lack of sparking), or analyzed what caused previous relationships to fail and how to avoid that in the future.

Why does needing each other make us weak? If anything I think being connected to others only makes us stronger. We are social creatures and we need each other. Love, companionship, friendship, compassion, understanding, these are all things that feed our souls. Saying that makes us weak is like saying the fact that we are dependant on food and oxygen to feed our bodies makes us weak.

[Zgarbas]

TBH the biggest flaw in my current relationship is the complete co-dependence. But I guess that's what happens when two shut-ins live together=/.

Actually I did think of one. important. criteria.

I would never, ever once again have the patience to teach a man about how to do his housework. Boys, learn to do the dishes!

If you find someone you're happy with, treat them well. But if they only stick around because you treat them well, there's a chance they're not really interested romantically but rather have become dependent or simply friends and/or are using you. Attraction is based first on a respect for the actual qualities of the other person and less on how well they treat you which is something all to often dictated by supply/demand. For reasons of practicality for long-term relationships you probably do need someone who doesn't treat you like dirt though (this is where compromise comes in). But attraction(not just physical) has ultimately very little to do with finding long term partners, we're not really designed to make those decisions, to make the necessary compromises. It's something you have to learn as you grow up if a long term relationship is something you feel you need. In fact I suspect the idea of finding someone to settle down with for the long term and raise a family with is an entirely modern invention. I don't think monkeys/apes form monogamous couples and raise nuclear families together. Think about it, how often do women/men complain that their bf/gf is an a-hole/bitch or that they are neglected/abused/etc while still desperate to maintain the relationship? They'd rather have whoever they see as closest to their constructed ideal (whatever that may mean) that is attainable than be treated well. People do want to be treated well but their own sense of upward mobility gets in the way, otherwise everyone would just dump their a-hole/bitch bf/gf. If you bf/gf seems to complain/feel neglected/need constant attention then you know they really love you.

edit: wow typos galore.