Hey guys, it's me again. Sorry for making a lot of new threads recently but I have some questions that are directed to towards advanced learners and anyone that has went through this phase during their studies. I'm currently immersing way more than I SRS nowadays. I know this is a good thing but my SRS pace definitely needs to be cut down to size, so I'm planning on cutting down,reformatting and redirecting my energy on immersing and learning outside the SRS.

Right now I'm feeling lazy but in a good way. I'm finally understanding the power of the SRS and immersion. It really works well but at a certain ratio. I believe the ratio should be 10-20% vs 80-90%. The question I'm getting out is, I'm finally at the 2 year mark of learning and I want to try new things,reach new levels and speed up the process of adding cards(only from native material). Has anyone went through this phase and what advice to you have for getting through this? I'm asking because I plan to reformat my cards yet again but stay strictly to adding only a certain amount of cards per day.

I just read what I just wrote and the question doesn't seem to be clear to even myself haha. I'm asking what will it take to reach the next level and what steps should I take to improve and speed up the process (Without overdoing it)

Some things about your post confuse me. You're talking about cutting down your time spent in the SRS, so you're asking advice for...making SRS cards? And you want to strictly add a certain number every day?

Take a look at the card format threads, there's a lot of info there. If you don't want to overdo it, don't add every single word -- just the ones you think you'll come across again.

I don't know what you'd define 'the next level,' but as I've seen you progress, it seems like what you need most right now is production and conversation practice. That would probably help you more than SRS can right now.

Asriel Wrote:Some things about your post confuse me. You're talking about cutting down your time spent in the SRS, so you're asking advice for...making SRS cards? And you want to strictly add a certain number every day?

Take a look at the card format threads, there's a lot of info there. If you don't want to overdo it, don't add every single word -- just the ones you think you'll come across again.

I don't know what you'd define 'the next level,' but as I've seen you progress, it seems like what you need most right now is production and conversation practice. That would probably help you more than SRS can right now.

Yea I definitely know now that I should add words that interest me and are common. Plus no need to add everything but adding different unique kanji per card if possible is key too. Sorry about my post, it's confusing I know. I guess I'm thinking about ways of making cards more effective and adding at a faster rate(also all monolingual and adding them at an automated fashion if possible)

Well the next level I'd say is just improving and learning more. It's hard to put a solid definition of it but it's probably just improving my speaking/writing(written skills). As well as keeping my reading/listening skills up and running+learning more.

Production+conversation practice is definitely what I've been focusing on for these past months but sometimes it's hard to measure how far you've gone. I guess the best way is to set goals(not big ones) but reasonably ones like: be able to speak with Japanese friends with ease (or at least keep improving). Nowadays I don't like saying "I want to be able to speak like a native-level Jp student" but rather, keep setting goals and I will be there sooner than later.

My gut is telling me to do more language exchange (nothing crazy) with 2 people(1 male and 1 female to give myself perspective on speaking to the different sexes).
I forgot what that site is called that allows natives to correct you (I should use that and add cloze deletion when natives correct my posts)
Talk on skype or do language exchange in person(I was doing it for a bit early this year but my friend went back for japan a bit). I will be getting another language exchange partner later this year.

Do the things you're not yet comfortable with (first find out what they are) and find out what is the best and easiest way to learn them.

You certainly shouldn't watch anime or read mangas anymore, but better cut down on the easy stuff and concentrate only on the hardest stuff.

Maybe start reading scientific or specialized stuff and immerse yourself only with it. And when you find unknown words, make sure that they will get written down somewhere as it's not that easy for new words to come by when you're at an advanced level.

Why do you even need to get to the next level?

Because...

good advice!
Just doing more and more of what you are doing at the moment will certainly help you to progress but very gradually rather than giving you the jump to the 'next step' that you are looking for.
Try new things, especially those that push you out of your comfort zone. I guess you'll have to work out what those things are for yourself. Try to resist going back to what you're used to just because it's easier (e.g. don't get into a habit of saying you'll look for a language exchange partner the next day because your too busy with Anki reviews today). The hardest part might actually be forcing yourself to cut down on the things you're used to and enjoy.

I've been trying to cut down on my time spent on Anki by extending the spacing of reviews, but I didn't want to stop adding things completely because I still find it useful. (I probably now only spend about 20 mins reviewing a day)

jettyke Wrote:Do the things you're not yet comfortable with (first find out what they are) and find out what is the best and easiest way to learn them.

You certainly shouldn't watch anime or read mangas anymore, but better cut down on the easy stuff and concentrate only on the hardest stuff.

Maybe start reading scientific or specialized stuff and immerse yourself only with it. And when you find unknown words, make sure that they will get written down somewhere as it's not that easy for new words to come by when you're at an advanced level.

hmm guess I should write a list of what is hard/can't do well and work on that is a good start. Reading scientific stuff/specialized is pretty much news/novels/interesting Japanese stuff that I like to read (about samurai,kimonos,traditional japan). Reading manga that isn't easy (i've read a good portion of rurouni kenshin and I have to say it isn't for beginners at all, I had trouble with that manga early this year but it has become easier now).

Write down unknown words (I'll save them to word and that will be an easy to keep a list).

jettyke Wrote:Why do you even need to get to the next level?

Because...

Hmm, you know I don't really have a reason. I know that might sound dump but I've gotten so far, I don't feel like stopping now until I reach complete fluency in all skills. That's my goal for Japanese

mutley Wrote:good advice!
Just doing more and more of what you are doing at the moment will certainly help you to progress but very gradually rather than giving you the jump to the 'next step' that you are looking for.
Try new things, especially those that push you out of your comfort zone. I guess you'll have to work out what those things are for yourself. Try to resist going back to what you're used to just because it's easier (e.g. don't get into a habit of saying you'll look for a language exchange partner the next day because your too busy with Anki reviews today). The hardest part might actually be forcing yourself to cut down on the things you're used to and enjoy.

I've been trying to cut down on my time spent on Anki by extending the spacing of reviews, but I didn't want to stop adding things completely because I still find it useful. (I probably now only spend about 20 mins reviewing a day)

Very true, I must try new things and cut back on the old things. For the anki reps+new additions I'm really cutting back and starting fresh. I want to be able to do my reps nowadays within a certain time frame. I'd say I was spending 1 hour a day but the reps were a large amount. Now I expect to cut that in half to 30mins a day/not a lot of reps at all.

In terms of immersion, i started watching more dramas but still watch animes(still fun to watch and as long as it's not the same episode, it's still considered new material). I tend to re-watch stuff that I have trouble with or I enjoy a lot.

I'm reformatting my decks now and will have a pace going pretty soon. This time I will be sticking to it for years to come (ar at least I hope so)

ta12121 Wrote:

jettyke Wrote:Why do you even need to get to the next level?

Because...

Hmm, you know I don't really have a reason. I know that might sound dump but I've gotten so far, I don't feel like stopping now until I reach complete fluency in all skills. That's my goal for Japanese

If that's your goal, "don't feel like stopping now until I reach complete fluency in all skills. "

Then what you want to be is to be like a fully functioning Japanese adult, right?

But you know, no matter how much you do in your own small room at home, you will no doubt still be a 馬鹿gaijin when you come to Japan.

I had usually no troubles with my Japanese in Tokyo or had some trouble when dealing with making contracts. That kind of trouble made up about 10% of all my lack of knowledge in Japan.

And about the other 90% of it was associated with that I hadn't been to Japan before.
I didn't know which transport to use, which one was the most suitable one for me. Which one is the cheapest, which one takes time.

Which telephone company is bad, which one is good, what to do with garbage and so on. These are the things you can't learn in Canada, not matter how hard you try. It's useless to do that unless you are in japan.

And there are LOTS of those kinds of things. I've been here for 2 months and I still feel like I'm stupid Japan has lots of possibilities that I couldn't even imagine back at home and there's no other way to learn them except by 体験。





You have been told that yet, but get to Japan as fast as possible. I know that you're looking for ways to make money already, so make sure to spend money on going to japan as soon as it's possible.

Go to Japan, and if you still feel that using the srs and sitting in front of your computer learning Japanese is more important than travelling and exploring the real Japan, then go back to it.

But I personally feel that you might have LOTS of stuff that's more important to spend time on, than what you're already planning on doing.

You may feel like you wanna be fluent in writing Japanese, but it's long outdated and writing by hand might not be such an important thing for you to spend time on. I'm not sure, but maybe it is so. And there are certainly some analogical cases.

edit

And what I also want to add to warn you is that it's much more difficult to be a gainjin in japan than you may think. I would have been perfect if I had as much Japanese knowledge as you have when I came here but one thing certainly doesn't change. Knowing the language is not enough at all.

You pretty much need 1-2 years to live and travel here to really understand what's happening here imo. And until the end of that period I'm sure that I will still feel like I need to explore lots of places and meet different people here.

One obvious way to speed up your creation time, is to just make bilingual vocab cards. Forget sentences, forget monolingual definitions, forget audio. All this stuff will likely slow you down your adding. Just read about advanced or unfamiliar topics online and make heavy use of rikai-chan or read offline and note the new words down on paper and then add them. Also if you're mostly watching anime, start watching variety shows, news, documentaries, movies etc.
Also don't add new words that you think you'll probably understand in context (eg. meaning is obvious from the kanji) unless it contains an odd reading or something.

@jettyke
Makes sense, there isn't much I can do in terms of that, it's basically the same as any new place you visit. You won't know the location,the buses,the area, what's good and what's not so good. I'm not worrying about that, all I know is that I need to keep improving my Japanese.

"Then what you want to be is to be like a fully functioning Japanese adult, right?"
Pretty much sums it all up. I want to be able to function fully like anyone my age.
I will definitely go to Japan within the next few years, no doubt about that. I will at least by next year hopefully visit there for 1 month just to see how it is. Most likely will have a guide because I will be lost there for sure if I go by myself(but isn't that part of the experience? haha).

As for writing, when I think about what can I do in English. I can definitely write by hand well but I can see that outside the basics or even advanced level of writing. That's pretty much what people should be aiming for. For example I want to be able to read 3000+ kanji but I will aim for only the common 2000+ or so. No more, no less(in a slow fashion of course, no need to rush).


Also for the things that I will would only be able to learn in Japan(your probably referring to the area and how things are done via the culture. I can definitely understand that). The most I can for that is learn vocab for those things/hang out with Japanese people here and see how they do things. Outside of this, I can't really see what I else I could do but I know thinking like this is a bad thing. All I can do is keep going forward until I get there.

nadiatims Wrote:One obvious way to speed up your creation time, is to just make bilingual vocab cards. Forget sentences, forget monolingual definitions, forget audio. All this stuff will likely slow you down your adding. Just read about advanced or unfamiliar topics online and make heavy use of rikai-chan or read offline and note the new words down on paper and then add them. Also if you're mostly watching anime, start watching variety shows, news, documentaries, movies etc.
Also don't add new words that you think you'll probably understand in context (eg. meaning is obvious from the kanji) unless it contains an odd reading or something.

Oh yea I do remember rikaisama had an option for a vocab word and in the reading section, it describes the word in full JP (monolingual card). The bilingual cards is a solid idea that I'm playing around with. Audio is possible with a plugin(it automatically plays it). I guess before I start I should get all these working and then start.

Variety is nice, so I should watch news,dramas,read novels,manga,watch anime(variety, not the same thing) and anything else that interests me(games is a good source of fun native material that's challenging)

Corridor Principle

http://getsmallbusiness.blogspot.com/200...ciple.html

jettyke Wrote:Corridor Principle

http://getsmallbusiness.blogspot.com/200...ciple.html

That sounds right to me. Don't plan too long but rather, just get started!

Yeah! ＼(^o^)／

It's important that it won't end up that all along you were planning the wrong thing.
(not concerning Japanese though, generally)

jettyke Wrote:Do the things you're not yet comfortable with (first find out what they are) and find out what is the best and easiest way to learn them.

You certainly shouldn't watch anime or read mangas anymore, but better cut down on the easy stuff and concentrate only on the hardest stuff.

Maybe start reading scientific or specialized stuff and immerse yourself only with it. And when you find unknown words, make sure that they will get written down somewhere as it's not that easy for new words to come by when you're at an advanced level.

Sometimes manga can be harder to understand than news articles/scientific articles. I've always found "textbook" like Japanese to be the easiest to read.

Realism Wrote:

jettyke Wrote:Do the things you're not yet comfortable with (first find out what they are) and find out what is the best and easiest way to learn them.

You certainly shouldn't watch anime or read mangas anymore, but better cut down on the easy stuff and concentrate only on the hardest stuff.

Maybe start reading scientific or specialized stuff and immerse yourself only with it. And when you find unknown words, make sure that they will get written down somewhere as it's not that easy for new words to come by when you're at an advanced level.

Sometimes manga can be harder to understand than news articles/scientific articles. I've always found "textbook" like Japanese to be the easiest to read.

Reminds me of this manga (one of my favorites) http://ameblo.jp/mastermindco/entry-10403416906.html

http://www.officiallyjd.com/archives/302...enshin_17/

jettyke Wrote:Yeah! ＼(^o^)／

It's important that it won't end up that all along you were planning the wrong thing.
(not concerning Japanese though, generally)

"Those who fail to plan, plan to fail" I'm sure everyone has heard of this phrase.

ta12121 Wrote:

jettyke Wrote:Yeah! ＼(^o^)／

It's important that it won't end up that all along you were planning the wrong thing.
(not concerning Japanese though, generally)

"Those who fail to plan, plan to fail" I'm sure everyone has heard of this phrase.

I haven't!

Anyway I'm not sure that I agree with it but if you have any good arguments tell me some!

ta12121 Wrote:"Those who fail to plan, plan to fail" I'm sure everyone has heard of this phrase.

I've heard/read many similar ones:

• "Planning is bringing the future into the present so you can do something about it now." – Alan Lakein

• "Action without planning is the cause of every failure." – Alex MacKenzie

• "Without goals, and plans to reach them, you are like a ship that has set sail with no destination." – Fitzhugh Dodson

• "Your ability to plan well, in advance of beginning, is a measure of your overall competence. The better the plan you have, the easier it is for you to overcome procrastination, to get started, to eat your frog and then to keep going." – Brian Tracy

But also:
• "Do something. Do anything. An average plan vigorously executed is far better than a brilliant plan on which nothing is done. For you to achieve any kind of success, execution is everything."

• "Many people confuse activity with accomplishment. They talk continually, hold endless meetings and make wonderful plans, but, in the final analysis, no one does the job and gets the results required."

gdaxeman Wrote:

ta12121 Wrote:"Those who fail to plan, plan to fail" I'm sure everyone has heard of this phrase.

I've heard/read many similar ones:

• "Planning is bringing the future into the present so you can do something about it now." – Alan Lakein

• "Action without planning is the cause of every failure." – Alex MacKenzie

• "Without goals, and plans to reach them, you are like a ship that has set sail with no destination." – Fitzhugh Dodson

• "Your ability to plan well, in advance of beginning, is a measure of your overall competence. The better the plan you have, the easier it is for you to overcome procrastination, to get started, to eat your frog and then to keep going." – Brian Tracy

But also:
• "Do something. Do anything. An average plan vigorously executed is far better than a brilliant plan on which nothing is done. For you to achieve any kind of success, execution is everything."

• "Many people confuse activity with accomplishment. They talk continually, hold endless meetings and make wonderful plans, but, in the final analysis, no one does the job and gets the results required."

Good quotes and I can't help but agree with them all