I've noticed that Japanese (and other asian) dramas seem to be a lot tamer than western ones. There's never any nudity, the violence is usually bloodless and cartoony, and no one ever dies. It's like all the Japanese dramas I've seen have been pre-watershed, so I'm wondering if there's a load of good dramas that I've been missing out on.

The other thing I've been wondering about is whether there's such a thing as an 大説. I'm guessing not, but when I first saw 小説 I assumed that there was, and the average length of a 小説 seems to be between 200 and 400 pages which is shorter than an English novel. Obviously though, the diffeference in writing systems might mean they're actually the same length, and even if they're not, it's just a matter of convention and what's considered an acceptable length for a novel is always changing, so any comparison is meaningless.

I'm not sure about dramas, but I think Japanese TV censors seem to care more about violence than western ones, as far as anime goes. Although they do air some pretty bloody anime like Baccano, but a lot of the gore from the Umineko No Naku Koro Ni anime was censored out when it aired on TV.

As for novels, the size varies, with longer books usually being broken up into 上（じょう） and 下（げ）(or 上、中、下 if they are really long) volumes. Overall Japanese books are more pocket sized than American (I don't know about European) novels, but that doesn't mean there aren't long Japanese novels out there. Right now I have some of 京極夏彦's books on my shelf, for instance, and those things are huge!

Bokusenou Wrote:I'm not sure about dramas, but I think Japanese TV censors seem to care more about violence than western ones, as far as anime goes. Although they do air some pretty bloody anime like Baccano, but a lot of the gore from the Umineko No Naku Koro Ni anime was censored out when it aired on TV.

Yeah I forgot to say, one of the reasons I thought it was odd that the dramas were so family friendly is because the Anime doesn't seem to be like that. I guess they think it's not as bad when they're just drawings, but it still seems really wierd that the cartoons aimed at kids/teenagers are allowed more freedom than the dramas aimed at adults.

Bokusenou Wrote:As for novels, the size varies, with longer books usually being broken up into 上（じょう） and 下（げ）(or 上、中、下 if they are really long) volumes. Overall Japanese books are more pocket sized than American (I don't know about European) novels, but that doesn't mean there aren't long Japanese novels out there. Right now I have some of 京極夏彦's books on my shelf, for instance, and those things are huge!

That's kind of what I texpected to hear. Even those ginormous books are still called 小説 right?

P.s. forgot to say, thanks for the reply.

The 小　in 小説 has nothing to do with length. In Chinese there was (or maybe still is) a word 大説, which referred to weighty, important works of history, politics, or philosophy (particularly the Chinese classics). 小説, on the other hand, are "less important" things like daily life, romance, etc. When the novel was first being developed off western models in the early Meiji period, 小説 was borrowed to refer to these novels. (Interestingly enough, the Chinese wikipedia counterpart to novel has 長編小説 as the term.)

Hmm, I don't know much about dramas, but it is pretty odd, esspecially since a lot of dramas are adaptations of manga series. Do they just add the violent parts to the DVD version, and keep the bloodless violence out of the TV version, like some bloody anime do, maybe? Dramas haven't had anything like the "Nice Boat" occurrence, have they?

Um, maybe長編小説?

Oh, and no problem! I'm not knowledgeable about dramas, so at first I thought I shouldn't answer, but I'm glad if anything I wrote helped. ^-^

Japanese entertainment is generally boring from my extended viewing experiences. I know that's a broad statement, but I can definitely say Japanese movies are the weakest in comparison to Korean, Chinese, American, etc. They are so boring. For dramas you can't get much violence, but if you want sleazy you can look for the dramas that air at a time-slot near midnight. And don't get me wrong, I love Japanese TV shows, movies (with Inoue Mao in them), and dramas; however, I guess we have to accept they're, as you said, a bit more tame (read: uninteresting).

I've found nothing with much violence. As such, I go for more comedy-oriented dramas such as 「花ざかりの君たちへ」. Another one I recently got into was 「１１人もいる！」. I watch 「謎解きはディナーのあとで」 because of Keiko Kitagawa's adorableness, and also it's fairly good on its own merits. Sorry, none of these have action really.

The police drama BOSS has a lot more action than the average drama, but still not anywhere near what some American shows have. Kind of mild with minimal blood, but not -all- the action is off screen.

Then again, a lot of American police procedurals are much more about the investigation and limited to a similar amount of violence, though CSI and close variants tend to have a certain amount of non-violent gore that you'd never see on Japanese TV.

I don't know how much is the censors, and how much is budget... special effects for firefights and car chases and explosions cost money, stuntmen and one-use set items that get shattered and thrown away cost money... fake blood doesn't cost much so the limited amount of it must be do to censors or sensibilities.

謎解きはディナーのあとで is easily my favorite show so far this season... the cases are kind of fun and much more classic mystery-novel stuff than police-procedural, which is refreshing... but the situational humor of it is great. I actually laugh out loud when I watch that show.

If you want violent Japanese movies, try Tokyo Gore Police or Machine Girl.

yudantaiteki Wrote:If you want violent Japanese movies, try Tokyo Gore Police or Machine Girl.

Why not try 殺し屋１ / Ichi the Killer...

KanjiDevourer Wrote:

yudantaiteki Wrote:If you want violent Japanese movies, try Tokyo Gore Police or Machine Girl.

Why not try 殺し屋１ / Ichi the Killer...

Be aware of what sort of movie it is, before you watch it though...There's a lot of grotesque torture in it, so much so that when the Japanese Culture Club I'm in tried to play it, we only got through about 10 mintues before everyone felt like thowing up, and started yelling "Stop the movie!" (and most of them were big fans of horror movies), but it does have violence, that's for sure...

KanjiDevourer Wrote:

yudantaiteki Wrote:If you want violent Japanese movies, try Tokyo Gore Police or Machine Girl.

Why not try 殺し屋１ / Ichi the Killer...

Audition. By far. (if i'm remembering the right one...)

Splatted Wrote:I've noticed that Japanese (and other asian) dramas seem to be a lot tamer than western ones. There's never any nudity, the violence is usually bloodless and cartoony, and no one ever dies. It's like all the Japanese dramas I've seen have been pre-watershed, so I'm wondering if there's a load of good dramas that I've been missing out on.

Yes, there are tons of good ones you're missing out (you won't find them on TV). But if you want violence and blood, then they don't have it. But if you just want a good drama with a good story. Then yes there are tons.

TheVinster Wrote:Japanese entertainment is generally boring from my extended viewing experiences. I know that's a broad statement, but I can definitely say Japanese movies are the weakest in comparison to Korean, Chinese, American, etc. They are so boring.

Avoid big-budget Japanese films (stupid action films). Avoid J-horror films. Avoid gore movies. Avoid live-action anime films. Avoid Godzilla/Ultraman stuff.

Then you'll find good Japanese films, the real Japanese movies. Most of them are more creative than a lot of Korean, Chinese, American stuff....

I started out watching all those gore type Japanese movies, Ichi the killer, audition (same director) etc but now that they make stuff like saw in the west, you don't need to look outward to see odd stuff (which was the allure at the time, back in 2000 at their release)

I suggest watching a film called Fish Story.. pretty slow, about how a punk song saved the world, really good ending I thought. There are good films out there, some really off the wall... "what in the hell did I just watch?" films.
Turtles Are Surprisingly Fast Swimmers/ Turtles swim surprisingly fast. (亀は意外と速く泳ぐ)
I don't think that movie could have been made anywhere but Japan, it's truly off the wall odd.. but without violence.

But if you are looking for violent stuff, Takashi Miike should serve you well. Visitor Q and the aforementioned Ichi the killer and audition certainly rank up there.

Gingerninja Wrote:Turtles Are Surprisingly Fast Swimmers/ Turtles swim surprisingly fast. (亀は意外と速く泳ぐ)
I don't think that movie could have been made anywhere but Japan, it's truly off the wall odd.. but without violence.

These are the types of Japanese films that people need to see. Japan makes tons of films like that, it's a shame they get ignored but trash like RoboGeisha gets recognition.

oooh, is there a film of fish story? i just read it the other week... it's a short story by 伊坂幸太郎...

IceCream Wrote:oooh, is there a film of fish story? i just read it the other week... it's a short story by 伊坂幸太郎...

Yeah, it's really good too, slow builder but I love the ending montage.

Thanks for the reccomendations everyone. 亀は意外と速く泳ぐ and fish story sound good. Can you reccommend some sites you go to to find out about these movies. I only know drama sites.

Tokyo gore police and machine girl are...not quite what I wanted. The trailers amused me but I don't think I'd want to sit through a whole movie of that. I'm not really looking for sex and violence specifically, they're just the most obvious things that are lacking. Things like characters not necassarily being positive role models, the issues they deal with and the way in which these issues are portrayed are what really matters. For example, I've recently watched the first 2 episodes of Saru lock, and it has some pretty clearly shown breast groping that I doubt would be allowed pre-watershed in England, and it's also about women being raped and forced in to prostitution, which sounds horrible when I write it here, but it's all treated really lightly. There's a fairytail ending in which everything is fine after the baddy is defeated and there's little sign of any real distress throughout the show. The mood of the drama is very cheerful, which is fine since it's a comedy, but that seems to be the approach of all Japanese dramas. I want to watch a show in which the Yakuza are actually intimidating, people who go through terrible things end up emotionally scarred and the characters are interesting instead of just nice.

I did watch some of freetaa ie wo kau a while ago and that did seem to take things more seriously (though I didn't really understand it), but it's still a pretty trite story about a lazy guy learning to take responsibility and be a better person, and I guess I do want some violence. I guess movies are the way to go.

Edit:

Realism Wrote:Yes, there are tons of good ones you're missing out (you won't find them on TV). But if you want violence and blood, then they don't have it. But if you just want a good drama with a good story. Then yes there are tons.

Care to share some examples? How do you find them?

Splatted Wrote:people who go through terrible things end up emotionally scarred and the characters are interesting instead of just nice.

check out Soredemo, Ikite Yuku. Best drama of last season imo.

If you're looking for violent movies just google Takashi Miike (Audition, Crows Zero, Dead or Alive) or Takeshi Kitano's old stuff (Fireworks, Battle Royale). They produced a lot of trash as well, I absolutely hated Visitor Q for example.

Cold Fish and Love Exposure by Sion Sono are also must see's. That man is a genius.

TheVinster Wrote:Japanese entertainment is generally boring from my extended viewing experiences. I know that's a broad statement, but I can definitely say Japanese movies are the weakest in comparison to Korean, Chinese,

Can you name a few that are outstanding? I actually think that Japan produces a lot of great/unique/silly movies but not in all genres. I never liked Thrillers before I watched a couple Korean ones this year... some of them were absolutely mind-blowing.
Just curious if there's more stuff like: A bittersweet Life, I saw the Devil, Mother, Oldboy Trilogy, The Man from Nowhere, Bedevilled or The Chaser. Loved those movies but its difficult to find more of the same quality.

Splatted Wrote:people who go through terrible things end up emotionally scarred and the characters are interesting instead of just nice.

Tori-kun mentioned 告白 (Confessions) a little while back. I haven't seen it, but according to the review at IMDb, the plot concerns a teacher who exacts cruel revenge on two of her students after they murder her daughter. This would seem to precisely fit the above requirements.... Lots of emotional scarring, including me, I imagine, if I ever watch it.

On a lighter note, have you seen any of the movies of Itami Juso. His work, made in the late 80s, early 90s pokes gentle satire at the social issues of the time. The yakuza put him in hospital, and may have even murdered him, after one of his films portrayed them as bullies and thugs rather than saviors of the common man.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/J%C5%ABz%C5%8D_Itami

One movie I would like to see is 薔薇の葬列 (Funeral Parade of Roses). It's a 1969 movie, set amongst the transvestite community in Tokyo. Supposedly it was a favourite of Stanley Kubrick's and influenced his filming of 'Clockwork Orange'
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Funeral_Parade_of_Roses

If you want characters that are "not nice" and go through "terrible things" with cosequent "emotional scarring" I recommend ゆきゆきて、神軍 (The Emperor's Naked Army Marches On) This documentary follows a "62-year-old veteran of Japan's Second World War campaign in New Guinea, Kenzo Okuzaki,... as he searches out those responsible for the unexplained deaths of two soldiers in his old unit." Memories have faded after 40 years, but the suggestion is made, they may have been eaten by their superior officers.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Emperor...Marches_On

Kokuhaku is beautiful... one of the best movies i've ever seen. You should watch it, everyone should watch it. It's more of a psychological thriller/drama, not exactly painfully violent, nothing like Ichi the Killer anyway. Pretty sure even Bokusenou's Japanese Culture Club would love it

keikei Wrote:Kokuhaku is beautiful... one of the best movies i've ever seen. You should watch it, everyone should watch it. It's more of a psychological thriller/drama, not exactly painfully violent, nothing like Ichi the Killer anyway. Pretty sure even Bokusenou's Japanese Culture Club would love it

LOL, I'm reading the novel currently, and enjoying it a lot! ^-^ Nice and dark. XD
I'm going to watch the movie after I finish it. If the movie is even half as good as the novel, it'll be a masterpiece.

keikei Wrote:Kokuhaku is beautiful... one of the best movies i've ever seen. You should watch it, everyone should watch it. It's more of a psychological thriller/drama, not exactly painfully violent, nothing like Ichi the Killer anyway. Pretty sure even Bokusenou's Japanese Culture Club would love it :D

Indeed it is! I also really liked it :D I'm looking for some equivalent.. I mean, of course, there will be no "copy" per se, but some Drama/Thriller movie being so beautiful, I mean. If anyone has suggestions, please share with me.

Quote:LOL, I'm reading the novel currently, and enjoying it a lot! ^-^ Nice and dark. XD
I'm going to watch the movie after I finish it. If the movie is even half as good as the novel, it'll be a masterpiece.

Yeah, the last sentence is just a bomb in my head: ねえ、渡辺くん。これが本当の復讐であり、あなたの更生の第一歩だとは思いませんか？ <3 I love this book just so much XD

keikei Wrote:

TheVinster Wrote:Japanese entertainment is generally boring from my extended viewing experiences. I know that's a broad statement, but I can definitely say Japanese movies are the weakest in comparison to Korean, Chinese,

Just curious if there's more stuff like: A bittersweet Life, I saw the Devil, Mother, Oldboy Trilogy, The Man from Nowhere, Bedevilled or The Chaser. Loved those movies but its difficult to find more of the same quality.

Here's the thing. Movies like A Bittersweet Life, I saw the Devil, Oldboy, comes along once in a WHILE. What does Korea make in BETWEEN those movies?? Just your average hit-or-miss stuff. Some ok, some trash, that's the problem.

Japan is quite the opposite. There big films like Kaiji, K20-Legend of the Mask, Gantz, 20th Century Boys are just straight up garbage. But what Japan makes in BETWEEN those movies are usually very, very good. Much better than Korea and China in my opinion.

But if you want a Japanese movie like A Bittersweet Life....check out Hazard by Sion Sono. Sono's best movie by far.