sorry if this is posted in the wrong place.

My name is Josh, im 17 years old and currently attending college, i've decided that i want to have some kind of future living in Japan, its been this way since i was 14 i've attempted learning Japanese several times in these last few years and started again 2 months~ ago
i hope for this to be the last time "starting" Japanese and get onto the "living" Japanese, however i'm afraid i may stop again and was considering the AJATT silverspoon package i've heard mixed things about it, but i think the theory behind it is solid i.e "immersion", "fun" etc... though i've heard that this can all be done free of charge by yourself. I guess what im asking for is a good method to keep myself motivated, and well versed in the Japanese Language. Is AJATT the way or is there something more out there?

Please bare in mind that i am usually busy with college work for 10~ hours every weekday

Cheers!

Personally, I wouldn't bother with silverspoon. It costs a lot and you still have to have 250 per month or something to buy Japanese media. Since you're considering it, I'm assuming you must be a rich college student

My advice, forget AJATT. Overall it's a good method, but the people here have basically taken the method and refined it over the last few years (especially when it comes to SRSing sentences). And all this info is available for free, on the forum (but you can donate!)

With the money you save by not doing silverspoon I would plan a short trip to Japan in about a year's time. If you work hard, by then you should have a good grasp of the basics, and one of the biggest motivating factors to keep improving your language skill is a trip to the country where your target language is spoken.

What do you want to do in Japan?

10 hours every weekday? are you taking 6 classes or something?

my motivation is cyclical and i'm currently on a down cycle, but i find that there are two components to it.
there are goals that i haven't reached yet that i'm constantly reminded of: understanding song lyrics, TV shows, carrying a conversation, being able to express myself freely without having to refer to dictionaries, etc. by always reminding myself of what still needs to be accomplished, i stay hungry.
then there are small goals that i've achieved that i reflect on. understanding japanese passages, making japanese friends and being able to communicate entirely in japanese, even if it's slow and unwieldy, understanding parts of lyrics, recognizing words, etc. these are things that make me feel that i'm not spinning my wheels and going nowhere. i also generally find it fun when i can see and feel the effects of my progress.

right now in my down cycle, i have a lack of desire. i feel like i understand 80% of TV, enough to where i'm not completely lost though i miss out on some details. i don't feel like reading books right now. i can communicate with japanese people, and although i can't do it smoothly, it's good enough to where they can understand and at this point i don't feel like i need any more than that.

but i do believe that sooner or later i'm going to find something that i want to do or do better, and that'll motivate me to continue studying. maybe i'll dig back into novels again, or find TV shows i don't understand.

If you have 10 hours of work every day for college that doesn't leave much time for Japanese, and it's certainly not enough for AJATT. Can you take Japanese classes at college?

taupe Wrote:Personally, I wouldn't bother with silverspoon. It costs a lot and you still have to have 250 per month or something to buy Japanese media. Since you're considering it, I'm assuming you must be a rich college student

Youtube is free. You can download Japanese movies, drama all over the internet. There are free Japanese online novels you can read at bunch of websites.

vidtomp3.com converts youtube audio to mp3, you can listen to it on your Ipod while you're doing your homework or whatever.

@kitakitsune - well by a looks of it im thinking of teaching english over there, i've heard of people that go over there to teach english without knowing any Japanese but i would find that unsatisfying and i dont know why but if i was Japanese id find it arrogant if someone was teaching me a language without bothering to learn one themselves

@yudantaieki - i usually dont have 10 hours college work but i spend about 2 hours everyday travelling there plus i have homework, coursework etc...

thanks for the advice, i must admit the reason i think i would enjoy Silverspoon is because at the moment when i study i feel like i have no direction, like its going no where, sure i use Remember the kanji, SRS and genki, but i like the idea of having native material, actually reading something interesting IN Japanese, i know silverspoon is not needed to do this but i know people have done it using silverspoon, it's hard to explain but i think i learn better if i'm using a method that has worked for others because i don't end up thinking "is this working?" "why am i doing this, it's not sticking"

everybody has their own style. I can give you my personal advice though. First complete RtK. Then building a good foundation in grammar is ideal. You can download the dictionaries of Japanese grammar from Anki. Freeze the entire deck and unfreeze each sentence in Anki as you read it in the books (check them for errors as you look at the book too). You can buy the books on this link or you can download them if you are good at using Google.
http://www.whiterabbitpress.com/product....t=0&page=1

Getting through the first book alone would be enough to start adding sentences to Anki with. You could do this at your own pace as well.

You can just move on the native material with no problem after that. I just use the 研究社　新和英大辞典　第５版　(Google it) and copy/paste sentences as I come across new words in raw materials. This method can fit to any time constraint that you might have.

If you are using the internet as your source for new words, by using rikaichan you will be able to look up the furigana to throw it in the dictionary.

Whatever the material you use to pull words from, make sure it is material that genuinely interests you or you will soon find yourself unable to continue the Anki reps because of how boring everything will become. Manga is a great place to start as you can work through a book and then watch the anime later that matches it word for word
as you complete each book.

forgive my English skills >_<

If you want to teach English you'll need a university degree I think, so you have at least over 3 years before you'll be coming to Japan, so you don't need to panic too much about making super fast progress.

Just set yourself small achievable goals and enjoy native media (with subs to begin with) from places like d-addicts and the various anime sites.

That and minor in Japanese if it is available. I would never recommend to major in it though.

thejoshlord Wrote:i know silverspoon is not needed to do this but i know people have done it using silverspoon, it's hard to explain but i think i learn better if i'm using a method that has worked for others because i don't end up thinking "is this working?" "why am i doing this, it's not sticking"

people haven't done it using silverspoon. the first wave of the program hasn't finished so it hasn't been proven quite yet.

Realism Wrote:

taupe Wrote:Personally, I wouldn't bother with silverspoon. It costs a lot and you still have to have 250 per month or something to buy Japanese media. Since you're considering it, I'm assuming you must be a rich college student

Youtube is free. You can download Japanese movies, drama all over the internet. There are free Japanese online novels you can read at bunch of websites.

vidtomp3.com converts youtube audio to mp3, you can listen to it on your Ipod while you're doing your homework or whatever.

Yes. But doesn't Khatz specify that you need this amount per month to buy the media he recommends? The whole point of SS is that you're spoonfed by Khatz, including media recommendations (which presumably aren't all available for free online).

All the more reason to go the non-silverspoon route.

Hashiriya Wrote:That and minor in Japanese if it is available. I would never recommend to major in it though.

Many programs require a major in order to do study abroad, and some of the extra linguistics classes that majors may be allowed could also be helpful. Every university or college is different so making a blanket recommendation like this is a little silly.

At my university there was basically a 16 credit hour difference between the minor and the major. So I just double-majored, and I got to go to Japan out of it. I'd say it was a pretty sweet deal.

If I recall correctly, British universities do not have the "major" and "minor" system that American universities do and it's much harder to take courses that are not in your specialty, and a "double major" essentially does not exist.

some universities do joint honour degrees, that's what I'm studying because I couldn't do languages as a subject by itself.

I see.. I didn't realize that some programs actually required you to be a Japanese major to study abroad. (mine doesn't) If you are smart, you should never have to pay even one cent to become fluent in Japanese. The road is well paved already.

btw, consider this: Which is more interesting? Material suggested to you by someone else, or material that YOU pick that is catered to your personal interests?

The above is correct, In a a British university, there is only one thing and that is the Bsc or BA of whatever it is you want to specialise in. For most degrees you study and take modules that you are told to do, there is no American style credit system.

I would not be too set on getting a teaching job in Japan either, I started searching in May and one got bored enough to count all my applications which exceeded 300. Not even the grots at internac or shane came back to me. I have since gone to the dark side and have accepted a teaching job in China ( which has a far better overall package). At this point while I have not yet done so I am considering calling a halt to the Japanese after a year a study in order to focus on Chinese. So do not count on being able to get a teaching job, not everyone gets them, as far as I understand not being an American also is a disadvantage ( even if you are a native speaker).

It is a big world out there. Have you considered what other countries you would like to try teaching in if all the schools in Japan give you a cold shoulder?

Korea and Taiwan are other options for English teaching.

Don't overcommit yourself to a life in Japan before you've actually tried it, being interested in a country's culture and enjoying living there are two completely different things. You're still young so there are plenty of opportunities open to you, things like making Japanese friends, getting involved in local Japanese clubs/lessons, study abroad, gapyear exchanges etc. will help to give you motivation to study while also giving you an idea of what it might be like to live in Japan long-term.

I was never particularly good at studying Japanese while not actually in the country, I always just felt like I was going over the same things again and again only to forget them later. There are plenty of people on this site though who have been very successful in learning Japanese without actually going to Japan. If you don't have much time, then a little bit everyday seems to be the key. For example if you just decide to study a few hours each weekend then it is very easy to skip a whole weeks study if other plans come up for that weekend.

Why do you want to go to Japan as an English teacher? Is it just as a relatively easy way to get a chance to live there, or is it a long-term career goal?

I guess the reason i want to go to Japan, live there, work there etc is i feel that there is nothing i want to do in England, in college i'm studying Biology, Geology, Geography and Computing none of these i want to pursue into, in fact nothing at my college i want do to. I guess Japanese interests me the most in my life right now and has done for the past few years, i wish i could take Japanese at my college but i cant. I also suppose my uncle has inspired me, he can speak many languages like German,Czech,English,French and i've always looked up to him for that, he used to live in Austria and told me stories about it when i was young.

I know i have a long time to "learn" Japanese, but i feel like i'm doing nothing worthwhile in my life right now....

Cheers for all the advice and i know teaching English in Japan will be hard, but hard isn't impossible

yudantaiteki Wrote:If you have 10 hours of work every day for college that doesn't leave much time for Japanese, and it's certainly not enough for AJATT. Can you take Japanese classes at college?

I was also busy about 10 hours per day or sometimes even much more in high school and still managed to keep on learning Japanese until now, so I don't think that it's not enough or something, it will just take longer. Slower is still much better than nothing.
But taking Japanese classes in your college would be a good idea.

Hashiriya Wrote:you should never have to pay even one cent to become fluent in Japanese. The road is well paved already.

All I paid for concerning learning Japanese was money on drinks and food that I spent while hanging out with my Japanese friends. Even got mangas sent and secondhand books given to me by friends for free. Now It's different for me of course, but I definitely don't need to spend any money to progress even as fast as I want. All in all, spending money is the least important thing that you can do for your Japanese. ( Except perhaps buying a ticket to Japan, which would be the best way to spend your money for the sake of your japanese skills)

thejoshlord Wrote:Cheers for all the advice and i know teaching English in Japan will be hard, but hard isn't impossible

Is teaching English really the thing you wanna do? Think about it.
What will you do after you have worked as an English teacher for 3+ years?

Just some questions to make you think, that's all.

I wouldn't call English teaching (or getting a job doing it) particularly hard, depends what you're comparing it to though. The thing with it though is that for most people it is just a temporary job not a career plan. There are some people who make good careers out of teaching English and enjoy it but a lot of the people doing it longer term are only doing it because they can't do anything else. If you don't want to teach long-term then it's a good idea to think well in advance about what you might want to do afterwards.

It's great that you like Japan and I wish you all the best for learning Japanese. However, I discourage you from building your future career on it.

Teaching English in Japan is more or less a dead-end job that won't make you happy for very long. It's great to do for 1-3 years but most people get tired of it very soon. Once that happens they realize they don't have any other skills that can be used for a career switch.

Japan or Japanese is not something you can "do". It's not something that will make you have a fulfilled live, except if your ultimate dream is to be a translator. It's great to like another country, I love Japan as well. But just like Steve Jobs said (damn, I 'm realizing that I'm telling this to lots of people these days), keep looking for something you are really interested in and make a career out of it. Most likely English Teaching is not it, it's just the easiest way into Japan.

If you love what you do and you're good at it you can always find a way into Japan and keep other options open. There are lots of ways to stay and live in Japan. It may be harder than teaching English, but it also may be worth it.