[Zgarbas]

Hello.
I figured there should be a thread with Japanese idioms, since usually you learn them by randomly stumbling into sentences that make no sense. Just list the ones you know =).

I'll start.
首を切る：　to get fired
口が軽い: To be talkative
手を抜く: Sloppy
芋を洗うよう： Extremely crowded


ご存知のとおり: As you know　　(<-apparently not an idiom)

馬があう - To hit it off with someone
そりがあわない - To not hit it off well with someone

そり is the curve of a katana. あわない is to not fit in the scabbard.

Ooh I like this idea for a thread. I'll list the ones I like:

後ろ髪を引かれる - to do something reluctantly (seems to be used when someone is reluctant to leave their house)
目から鱗が落ちる -　to "see the light"
面の皮が厚い - describes someone who has a lot of "nerve"
首を長くして待つ - to wait for something eagerly/expectantly
転ばぬ先の杖 - Japanese equivalent to "An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure."

Oh, and:
朝飯前 - so easy (that you could do it before breakfast, I assume?)
二の舞 - a repeated failure

痛くも痒くもない - Don't give a fu*k

Zgarbas Wrote:ご存知をとおり: As you know

Aside from the grammar mistake (it should be の, not を), How is that idiomatic?
It literally translates to "as you know".

書いたとおり: As it is written
言ったとおり: As you said
見たとおり: As you saw
ご覧のとおり: As you see
いつもとおり: As always
etc..

[Zgarbas]

Err. Yes. Sorry about the を.

That would be me not doing research, I guess? =/.

気が抜ける - to feel let down, disappointed
手に入る - to get hold of, be available

Zgarbas Wrote:Err. Yes. Sorry about the を.

That would be me not doing research, I guess? =/.

Err? It can be either ご存知のとおり or 御存じのとおり on which means "as you know" or "as you are aware."　I counted 8 ways of writing it with or without Kanji. It seems to be a very vexing term for Japanese people learning English, or practicing English conversation. That what I think from my research. Anyways, I wonder how you came across that phrase?

馬子にも衣装 anyone looks good in the right clothes.
横車を押す to have your way regardless of how stupid it may be.
歯に衣を着せない the opposite of 'beat around the bush.'
濡れ衣を着せる to make false accusations.
棚から牡丹餅 unexpected good luck.
隅に置けない someone you shouldn't underestimate.

Can't think of any more, but I have a bunch in my vocab deck. I wish I could remember more of them while speaking, since they can make you sound a lot more natural, although if you use rarer ones or 諺, it has the opposite effect.

一石二鳥 (Kill two birds with one stone)
木を見て森を見ず (Can see the forest for the trees)
木を見て森を見ない
つのをためて牛を殺す (The cure is worse than the diseases)

Not sure, why the Japanese have it again. At least I have never come across such an obscure idiom in English/German/Russian so far. My favourite ★

朝マラの立たぬ男に金貸すな。"Never lend money to a man who doesn't have an erection in the morning (because he's not healthy and is likely to die before repaying)"

Guess that would also do it for a "That's what she said"-joke, but yeah.

Jarvik7 Wrote:

Zgarbas Wrote:ご存知をとおり: As you know

Aside from the grammar mistake (it should be の, not を), How is that idiomatic?
It literally translates to "as you know".

書いたとおり: As it is written
言ったとおり: As you said
見たとおり: As you saw
ご覧のとおり: As you see
いつもとおり: As always
etc..

Doesn't the very existence of the word とおり in all these phrases show that there may be some sort of idiomatic roots? Maybe such phrases with とおり are used so often that we tend to overlook that possibility. I'm not too sure though, so I'd like to hear your input on that.

edit: いつもとおり→ いつもどおり
Or did you use an irregular kana usage on purpose?

Learned these two today:

煙(けむ)に巻く -
大げさなことや相手の知らないようなことばかりを言い立てて、相手を圧倒したり、ごまかしたりする。「巧みな弁舌で人を―・く」
◆この意味で「けむりにまく」と読むのは誤り。

顰蹙(ひんしゅく)を買う
良識に反する言動をして人から嫌われ、さげすまれる。「世間の―・う」

Think I found them while re-reading Norwegian Wood...

Nuriko Wrote:Doesn't the very existence of the word とおり in all these phrases show that there may be some sort of idiomatic roots? Maybe such phrases with とおり are used so often that we tend to overlook that possibility. I'm not too sure though, so I'd like to hear your input on that.

It doesn't really seem like that to me -- these phrases are all clear from the meanings of their component words, which makes them not idioms in the sense we're talking about here. (They're obviously idiomatic in the looser sense of "natural phrases that people say".)

[Zgarbas]

Omoishinji Wrote:Err? It can be either ご存知のとおり or 御存じのとおり on which means "as you know" or "as you are aware."　I counted 8 ways of writing it with or without Kanji. It seems to be a very vexing term for Japanese people learning English, or practicing English conversation. That what I think from my research. Anyways, I wonder how you came across that phrase?

It came up as a correction on Lang8. I didn't know about のとおり and I was baffled to see ご存知 in a casual setting.

Nuriko Wrote:Doesn't the very existence of the word とおり in all these phrases show that there may be some sort of idiomatic roots? Maybe such phrases with とおり are used so often that we tend to overlook that possibility. I'm not too sure though, so I'd like to hear your input on that.

edit: いつもとおり→ いつもどおり
Or did you use an irregular kana usage on purpose?

I originally put いつものとおり but later deleted the の as it confused the example somewhat, but forgot to change the と to ど at the same time. いつもとおり does occur in native speech to a lesser extent though.

Not really sure why you'd think that a piece of vocab being part of a common pattern makes it an idiom, so I can't really reply in depth to that.. It is of course possible for an idiom to contain (but not because it contains) とおり, but I can't think of any off the top of my head.

Zgarbas Wrote:

Omoishinji Wrote:Err? It can be either ご存知のとおり or 御存じのとおり on which means "as you know" or "as you are aware."　I counted 8 ways of writing it with or without Kanji. It seems to be a very vexing term for Japanese people learning English, or practicing English conversation. That what I think from my research. Anyways, I wonder how you came across that phrase?

It came up as a correction on Lang8. I didn't know about のとおり and I was baffled to see ご存知 in a casual setting.

That is what sometimes confuses me to. It is just part of the Japanese 敬語 that can be confusing.

There is 見ての通り with is another idiom. "as you ( can ) see"

Thanks

Also not an idiom..

It this caused by believing that 通り means street?

Zgarbas Wrote:

Omoishinji Wrote:Err? It can be either ご存知のとおり or 御存じのとおり on which means "as you know" or "as you are aware."　I counted 8 ways of writing it with or without Kanji. It seems to be a very vexing term for Japanese people learning English, or practicing English conversation. That what I think from my research. Anyways, I wonder how you came across that phrase?

It came up as a correction on Lang8. I didn't know about のとおり and I was baffled to see ご存知 in a casual setting.

It's not that unusual to see keigo used in casual settings. I've noticed that for some reason learners often get into this fixed mindset that keigo is used by old people or in business settings and that's it, but the usage of keigo is much more widespread than that. You can see it on blog posts, game 攻略 sites, comments to blogs, amazon reviews, etc. I think that in this context the person may have used keigo because they were making a correction, something that is perceived as requiring politeness and tact.