imabi Wrote:Sometimes people don't read things correctly.

So one thing I want to say here...people here are generally more educated than most about Japanese and language learning in general. If WE don't read things correctly, how confused do you think a "normal" person will get?

I get how much it sucks to have your project critiqued. I'm 21, and am the only one I know interested in research. Have my own grants, etc. I'm going for my PhD hopefully in the next couple years. It always sucks to get something back from my mentor COVERED in RED. I was sad at first, and it sucks. But I realized, she wants to make it better. What is confusing or uncertain for her, can be even worse for laypeople.

I'll admit, I haven't browsed your site much since it's not linear in the way I'm able to figure out where what I need to study is (I focus on reading, mostly, so I don't care much about speaking/writing), and I'm sorry, this is cruel, but you're so verbose that it's like reading academic papers and I get such little time away from school as it is. I don't care what a homonym is (though I do know what it is), or a predicate, or a whatever, just explain it in English!

IDK how smart everyone else is here. All I know is that I look at how long people are looking at my pages, and I can tell that people aren't taking the necessary amount of time.

It wasn't me that wanted to use the word homonym. I think I've taken all mentions of the word predicate out. I don't use too many words on my site. Most things are very small actually. I guess what you're trying to say is that you really have to focus on things. Which, again, I'm trying to fix.

Thanks

I got some audios for Lesson 1 now. I found native records for authenticity.

http://www.imabijapaneselearningcenter.c...ngs-easier

Let's move this conversation to here. Thanks.

You need to sign in to my site though.

MY GOAL IS TO GET RID OF 30 PAGES OF VERBAL BS OUT OF MY SITE IN A WEEK. THIS MEANS MAKING ANYTHING EXPLAINED MORE EFFECTIVELY WITH LESS WORDS.

These last two weeks I've gotten 約10 pages taken out. I think I can do better. It's just that when you write something yourself, it's hard to find out what's wrong even if you read it over again because it looks alright to you. It's especially hard to try to go downstairs metaphorically speaking to another person's level. So, I need all the help I can get. At least now we're going to transfer the conversation to where it should have been in the first place.

@imabi

As you have singled me out, I feel, I should somehow respond.

I admit that my comment might have been a bit harsh but there was a reason I reacted that way (well, I could have used more rounded words but my motives remain the same).

You seem to have a mission of educating people which definitely is something to be praised for. But when

tylerdevlin writes: “Because we wouldn't want to risk confusing your intellectual inferiors, now would we?”

you respond: “Which is exactly why I have had to dumb down the language.”

You see, to me a role of an educator is to bring people's education level up and that's not just in area that you choose to lecture about (Japanese, in your case). A particular word that was in focus at that point was: homonym. Well, “homonym” is not a Japanese specific term, is it? It is a word that people who would like to call themselves educated should be familiar with. Yet, you – the educator – choose to “dumb it down”, hence deprive those who are keen on rising their levels a chance for doing so. I disagree with such an attitude from somebody who aspires to be an educator, hence my post.

There are many positions that are not shy in using uncommon words for sake of clarity and being concise (D[BIA]JG, for example, to keep things somewhat Japanese relevant). What makes DBJG a good example is that the reader, after initial pain of going through the definitions, is presented with material that in small space, concisely and comprehensively, explains quite complex notions. Look at the comments “A Dictionary of Basic Japanese Grammar” is getting on Amazon - only 5 and 4 stars. The authors didn't dumb their work down and yet it is highly regarded text.

Again, I'm not commenting on your site – I'm commenting on your attitude.

If you disagree with my argument then it's fine – let us agree that we disagree and move on.

Well Inny Jan, you did take my words out of context. I'm trying to make it easier for anyone. If I don't have to use technical wording, I probably shouldn't. Like IceCream said, it leads to misinterpretation which leads to the fact that I wrote it in a way that was ineffective. If you have looked at the site, you would know that the site is a mix of the two styles. I still use many terms not used in other places--the names of the six bases for example--and I build on those accordingly. Again, please look at my work.

I don't know how to react this quite honestly because looking at the site for yourself is the best way to understand what we were talking about earlier. My site already brings people to a level far higher than standard university Japanese courses. The age group likely to learn Japanese ranges from 13-40 I would imagine. Not everyone in this group is at the same level intellectually. So, in the first lessons, I think it would be imperative to tend to the needs of the most likely audience, teens. I still use words such as homophonous and derivatives of the word homonym all the time, and as the lesson number gets higher, you can notice a change in diction develop.

I would be glad to outline the curriculum in respect to terminology if you would like. I have sent you an email explaining what I meant. Good night and thank you for your concern.

I'm sure an index of the less common terms would be very useful.

There already is such Inny Jan. Most instances of a technical word are linked to where they were first defined or defined on that page. There is also a search engine where you can search the site for all the instances of the word to see if more information was given in a certain location. Glad to be of assistance.

Note: I have posted some recent updates I made on the site on that thread I intend for this discussion to be moved to. I often go to lessons you guys look at to edit.

imabi Wrote:You're a newbie? You would be the perfect person to help me comb through and amend things then. We should email frequently.

Would like to help, I don't study Japanese anymore - now I'm learning Mandarin. Sorry!

nohika Wrote:So one thing I want to say here...people here are generally more educated than most about Japanese and language learning in general. If WE don't read things correctly, how confused do you think a "normal" person will get?

A very valid point.

I think this link about a basic concept might be useful for everyone:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communication_noise

A simple graph:

Imabi's Message A -> *NOISE* -> Message B -> Reader

In other words, the message Imabi intends to communicate is not necessary the message that the reader will receive.

Inny Jan Wrote:There are many positions that are not shy in using uncommon words for sake of clarity and being concise (D[BIA]JG, for example, to keep things somewhat Japanese relevant). What makes DBJG a good example is that the reader, after initial pain of going through the definitions, is presented with material that in small space, concisely and comprehensively, explains quite complex notions. Look at the comments “A Dictionary of Basic Japanese Grammar” is getting on Amazon - only 5 and 4 stars. The authors didn't dumb their work down and yet it is highly regarded text.

A good point to make. I found the text of those three dictionaries very dry. very plain, and very "dictionary-like", and yet, everything is concise, succinct and easy to understand in a no-bullshit manner.

stehr Wrote:Would you like a little cheese with your whine?

lol

嘆かわしいこととおもいます。建設的に意見を述べてください。内容はないなら、口を出さない方がよいです。

お前の知ったことではない。

One thing I'd recommend, especially in the particle lessons, is to bold or somehow distinguish the particles that you're talking about. Mostly talking the beginner lessons, but even though I'm comfortable with the kana, sometimes it took me a little digging to find the right particle. Bolding it or distinguishing it would make it easier for beginners who are unfamiliar with kana of sorts.

The other thing...is there any way you could use the lesson titles instead of the numbers for the drop-down menus? If I'm quickly scanning, I'm not going to know that lesson 43 is "Want and Feeling and Appearance: The Auxiliary Verb- tai, hoshii, and the Suffix -garu " - maybe all I know is that I read hoshii somewhere and want to study it.

Anyway, neither are huge, just more stylistic things, I guess.

The first idea is something that I have implemented on a few pages. That is an easy fix that I will certainly do when I get home.

My site builder has a size limit to what I can put in a page title. I can put a table of contents on the side to reference, but that will cause the length of lessons longer for printing. Would that be alright?

imabi Wrote:The first idea is something that I have implemented on a few pages. That is an easy fix that I will certainly do when I get home.

My site builder has a size limit to what I can put in a page title. I can put a table of contents on the side to reference, but that will cause the length of lessons longer for printing. Would that be alright?

It really helps when you're focusing just on a certain point.

This makes it more complex...maybe add a separate print version? Like the "print version" some websites have for things? But that'd (the ToC on the side) be absolutely lovely, and I think make navigating the site so much easier. Maybe just make it for that particular area? Like when you're in the beginner section, all the beginner lessons, and so on and so forth?

When you click on the headings of the sections you are directed to the specific table of contents for it. I can't make widgets show up on specific widgeta sadly. I am at the restraints of my site builder. But, I can put a table of contents reference that has everything. If you find that some lessons don't have enough examples, you can use the search engine to find more in other areas of the site.

http://www.imabijapaneselearningcenter.com/lesson9.htm

http://www.imabijapaneselearningcenter.com/lesson10.htm

These are the lessons I have made for the particles ga and wa. I have significantly changed them and have given them pictures. I would like to hear if they look any better than they did. I sure hope so: it was a lot of work.

UMM THere's like mistakes like
美しいなの

and tae kim has explained wa and ga wonderfully already
http://www.guidetojapanese.org/learn/gra...iclesintro

you don't have spend so much time or any time on this. go have fun doing stuff in japanese... movies/tvs/website reading/books/music... instead of working on this website. go AJATT yo. the time that you're putting into making pages for this website could be put into learning japanese or just exposure to japanese. you're obviously not learning much japanese or at least correct japanese from making pages on that site and it's not doing anyone a favor including yourself.

I get that you want to be helpful but if somebody actually learnd from this they would do more harm them than good or well.... they wouldn't leran it correctly cause there's mistakes... it makes no sense.

there's already tae kim and he did a wonderful job. So go check that out, learn from that. you don't have to make this site......

That was a mistake that passed by; I normally never do something like that, and I am sure I know much more Japanese than you do. I spend a lot of time with Japanese everyday.

I'm sorry, but I will decline your offer as I have no need for what you ask. I do all of what you ask everyday. Thank you.

Frankly, I'm astonished that you keep asking people for advice and other people keep giving it to you.

You haven't looked at the site in detail yourself. No one from here today has.

I personally don't know why people are against me. I have done considerable work towards the cause of spreading Japanese around. Isn't that all what we want? Come now, why ruin my ambitions because you like to nitpick? There are plenty of other members on this site with similar projects, and no one has gone after their shortcomings in such a manner. I ask here because I was brought here not but my own choice, but since there is a plethora of people with knowledge or wanting to seek knowledge in Japanese, it has become unavoidable.

미치겠어. 나를 위해 착각이란 말은 하지말아.

This thread is amazing.

I would never use that website to learn anything, it is horrible. But of course I just haven't seen the light.

You're crazy. I don't know how you would think that. Why would someone not want to learn more about advanced topics? Hateful people don't live long. Better yet, why would anyone not want to learn Japanese no matter what?

When you insult the people who try to give you advice, people won't try to give you advice.

Right now it's the other way around. Frankly, I don't know what you're talking about because last time I checked I simply asked for people to see if it was better from before, a person made a comment about a typo and used that as a basis to call everything wrong, and then several more comments afterward.