Okay, so about a year and a half ago I decided I wanted to learn Japanese and I started off really well (learning basic phrases and words like "hajime mashite" and some verbs such as "hanashimasu" as well as various grammar point) and then around May time I went and stayed in the Philippines for a month and when I got back I lost track of things and ended up going nowhere. Then around the same time this year I started up again and without any distractions I was really making progress learning using "iStart Japanese" and various other resources available for free on the internet. My initial plan was to learn to understand and speak Japanese and then stay in Japan to immerse myself and pick up the kana and kanji naturally. However, I soon came to the realisation that when we learn a language we tend to associate individual words with an image (usually its written form, especially if it is an abstract concept) and so learnt all of the kana using "quizlet.com" and then discovered RTK as a resource for learning kanji. Now I am 500 frames in and I'm really enjoying myself but I was wondering, once I learn all of this new vocabulary through the Heisig method what is the best way to carry on learning Japanese to the point where I can at least understand Japanese and use it in conversations?

I have already checked and there are no courses available where I live, neither are there any tutors so I was thinking along the lines of books/videos/websites. Thanks

Edit: I've just seen NukeMarine's thread and I've visited Tae Kim's Guide but a lot of that I've already learnt. My problem is I haven't learnt it all from one place so I know various bits that aren't in any logical order. I know a lot of what is on that website yet when I come to listen to Japanese podcasts or watch anime I only manage to pick up "ne", "desu", "masu", "mashou", "terebi" etc. Should I just forget that I've already learnt all of this and start afresh in a more rational order?

Is this a joke?

What are you talking about, "forgetting" things you already learned? That's non-sensical. How can you "forget" terebi? You learned 20 super common words in the course of three months and now you want to "forget" them? At this rate, it will take you 500 years to acquire high school vocabulary.

When you finish RTK, you should rejoice. Because then you will be easily able to learn plenty of Japanese. Read this forum for good ways to do it (using the SRS and dramas, for example).

Search, search, search for a good method, and realise that a lot of people here already have a good method.

If you're looking for a course, I'm sure they're out there, but they don't really teach natural ways of speaking.

Also, for listening, keep doing it and soon you will understand more. Of course! And if you ever take a week off, say, you will come back to it and get a surprise how much you understand!

louischa Wrote:Is this a joke?

What are you talking about, "forgetting" things you already learned? That's non-sensical. How can you "forget" terebi? You learned 20 super common words in the course of three months and now you want to "forget" them? At this rate, it will take you 500 years to acquire high school vocabulary.

If you think there is one "right" method to learn a language, then go visit Ajatt. [Edited by 風: Let's cool it with the needless insults. Please.]

Woah, no need to get snotty. Isn't the point in a forum to help people? And "20 super common words in the course of three months" isn't at all what I meant. What I mean is all of the sources I have relied on so far only provide for beginners (ie. iStart Japanese). Now I've finished them I have nowhere to go but other websites/textbooks that will expect me to know things I haven't learnt and teach me things I already know. I wanted to know whether I should start with other beginner textbooks/websites and just go over what I already know as well as learning new things.

Just because you've been learning Japanese for longer than other people doesn't mean you can all of a sudden become arrogant and condescending. If you don't want to help other people learn then don't post on their threads.

mizunooto Wrote:When you finish RTK, you should rejoice. Because then you will be easily able to learn plenty of Japanese. Read this forum for good ways to do it (using the SRS and dramas, for example).

Search, search, search for a good method, and realise that a lot of people here already have a good method.

If you're looking for a course, I'm sure they're out there, but they don't really teach natural ways of speaking.

Also, for listening, keep doing it and soon you will understand more. Of course! And if you ever take a week off, say, you will come back to it and get a surprise how much you understand!

Haha okay, thanks for the advice a little more useful than the last guy's reply. I've been saving for two years now and I'm planning on getting a job when I turn sixteen to save up for once I leave University, then hopefully I'll be able to go to Japan. I'm not bothered about going away on my own because I know I can cope from my trip to the Philippines, I just want to actually learn the language instead of forcing other people to speak English. I'm hoping to be a design engineer as well so I figured if I like it when I'm over there, it could potentially be a place to stay and work.

Review, Review, Review. This could never hurt.

I would go to ajatt and look at his sentence and input method. That was really help for me . Then you could get a text book(like genki) and put those sentences into anki and you could still use tae kim for grammar. Also the book understanding basic Japanese grammar is a good read it has a lot of useful sentences.

Being something like a design engineer in Japan when you're not absolutely fluent in Japanese is probably something you'd have to really fight for. It's absolutely not a "potential" dream that you just might simply choose to do when you're visiting there. If you don't want to take my words alone for it, these dark and cold forums that you really shouldn't spend so much time on have plenty of "I want to be a ______ in Japan!!!!!!" threads that have been shot down.

Japan is no doubt the best place to learn Japanese, but sure you have plenty of time between now and until whenever you go there to learn the language to a good level. But I strongly doubt that will be done through "beginner textbooks/websites".

I personally think you need get into learning through immersion and input. Louischa mentioned AJATT, which has been getting a lot of ruthless hate since the author started selling things, but some of the articles he's written explain the input method pretty well. I also thought this lens was pretty good, and if you watch this guy's videos and sit through this guy's language acquisition hypothesis explanation, hopefully you'll see what I mean.

RTK gives us a great foundation to start acquiring Japanese vocabulary at a great pace. Make use of that by reading a lot, SRSing a lot, doing anything you enjoy doing that gives you Japanese input. The main reason you'd learn Japanese so well by being in Japan is because you have an all Japanese environment around you. You can create such an environment, or at least something similar lol, right where you are.

TwoMoreCharacters Wrote:Being something like a design engineer in Japan when you're not absolutely fluent in Japanese is probably something you'd have to really fight for. It's absolutely not a "potential" dream that you just might simply choose to do when you're visiting there. If you don't want to take my words alone for it, these dark and cold forums that you really shouldn't spend so much time on have plenty of "I want to be a ______ in Japan!!!!!!" threads that have been shot down.

Japan is no doubt the best place to learn Japanese, but sure you have plenty of time between now and until whenever you go there to learn the language to a good level. But I strongly doubt that will be done through "beginner textbooks/websites".

I personally think you need get into learning through immersion and input. Louischa mentioned AJATT, which has been getting a lot of ruthless hate since the author started selling things, but some of the articles he's written explain the input method pretty well. I also thought this lens was pretty good, and if you watch this guy's videos and sit through this guy's language acquisition hypothesis explanation, hopefully you'll see what I mean.

RTK gives us a great foundation to start acquiring Japanese vocabulary at a great pace. Make use of that by reading a lot, SRSing a lot, doing anything you enjoy doing that gives you Japanese input. The main reason you'd learn Japanese so well by being in Japan is because you have an all Japanese environment around you. You can create such an environment, or at least something similar lol, right where you are.

Thanks for the brutal honesty and constructive criticism I know being a design engineer in Japan is a difficult goal which is why I figured I'd start learning Japanese seriously now (I'm 15) so I have a minimum of 8 years before I start seriously considering moving there. My main problem is the fact that where I live there there isn't a Japanese community and there isn't anybody else interested in learning with me so I'm stuck relying on the internet, which isn't really as immersive as I'd like. I do watch anime and listen to Japanese podcasts but clearly that isn't enough and like I mentioned before I only manage to pick up the odd word or phrase :/ I think I'll probably wait until I've finished RTK 1 (which, at the rate im going, should take about six weeks) and learnt all of the readings (probably another eight weeks) and then move on to Tae Kim's grammar (although I've learnt a fair amount of grammar anyway) then I'll take a look at other resources such as AJATT. Hopefully by that time I'll have picked up enough to understand a lot more of what I listen to, even if that is a year or two away.

wished I started when I was that age, I had so much time back then, well I still do, so I shouldn't be complaining. You should definitely use the srs (anki) and starting making decks that have sentences,vocab/grammar and work on gaining a good knowledge of that.
Obviously do kana, then RTK Kanji and start immersing. It really comes down to getting used to the language. If your dedicated, you only need 1 year to get to an advanced level of reading/listening.

TwoMoreCharacters Wrote:and sit through this guy's language acquisition hypothesis explanation, hopefully you'll see what I mean.

Great video. Thanks for sharing.

CallumReader Wrote:I've been saving for two years now and I'm planning on getting a job when I turn sixteen to save up for once I leave University, then hopefully I'll be able to go to Japan. I'm not bothered about going away on my own because I know I can cope from my trip to the Philippines, I just want to actually learn the language instead of forcing other people to speak English. I'm hoping to be a design engineer as well so I figured if I like it when I'm over there, it could potentially be a place to stay and work.

Oh, that's great that you are planning already! Someone who's independent (as you will be) has really got the world at his feet!

The SRS is amazing because you just do the reviews, mark them honestly as easy/hard, then one day you just know everything! It's almost like learning without the learning part!

I have gone back to do RTK now, so I've paused all my other learning. But I was doing sentences from dramas I enjoy (it's easier to remember from those), and also from books I like (there are a lot of good Japanese books). I have tried to use courses a little, just to get some basic words, but I get annoyed by the language use.

I think the secret is : you've got (a) words you will actually use, and (b) words you need to understand but probably won't use. You need to learn both sets, but (a) you need to learn well. Then pick people who you think you should be talking like - e.g. if by chance there is a drama about a design engineer then...you get the idea

Just keep getting sentences from interesting and fun places, and when you have 10,000 you will be fluent (that's what they say). I've got about 1,000 and things are making a lot more sense when I listen to audio now. Also learn the sounds as [link="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_phonology"]here[/link] just to be sure of what you're hearing.

That's pretty much all. I have a book for verbs (Handbook of Japanese Verbs), one for particles (All About Particles) and I would like to get one for adjectives + adverbs but haven't seen it in the shop. I recommend the two I mentioned there.

*Good luck, keep going, when everyone else has given up you will be the winner!!!*

ta12121 Wrote:wished I started when I was that age, I had so much time back then, well I still do, so I shouldn't be complaining. You should definitely use the srs (anki) and starting making decks that have sentences,vocab/grammar and work on gaining a good knowledge of that.
Obviously do kana, then RTK Kanji and start immersing. It really comes down to getting used to the language. If your dedicated, you only need 1 year to get to an advanced level of reading/listening.

Hmm somehow he says it more concisely than me!

mizunooto Wrote:

ta12121 Wrote:wished I started when I was that age, I had so much time back then, well I still do, so I shouldn't be complaining. You should definitely use the srs (anki) and starting making decks that have sentences,vocab/grammar and work on gaining a good knowledge of that.
Obviously do kana, then RTK Kanji and start immersing. It really comes down to getting used to the language. If your dedicated, you only need 1 year to get to an advanced level of reading/listening.

Hmm somehow he says it more concisely than me!

haha

CallumReader Wrote:Now I've finished them I have nowhere to go but other websites/textbooks that will expect me to know things I haven't learnt and teach me things I already know. I wanted to know whether I should start with other beginner textbooks/websites and just go over what I already know as well as learning new things.

I'd recommend going through at least one grammar book to cover any basics you might have missed (eg, Japanese the Manga Way). It's a bit of a drag to read about stuff you already know, but at least it won't take long.

Afterward I would recommend tackling real sentences from sources you know in an intelligent order (ie, Anki + subs2srs + MorphMan) while using a good grammar reference as needed (eg, A Dictionary of Basic Japanese Grammar and it's more advanced counterparts).

tokyostyle Wrote:

CallumReader Wrote:then I'll take a look at other resources such as AJATT.

AJATT is more of a resource on how to study and not what to study. It doesn't replace actual Japanese learning materials like vocab lists and grammar guides.

And motivation