Hey everyone!

I’m trying to work out a good curriculum for next year (when I’ll be done with RTK1). I’d like to start learning Kanji readings by watching Kanji-subbed anime and reading import manga. I’m also going to start working through Tae Kim’s Guide to Grammar and a few other things along those lines.

What I’m really looking for now, as far as Kanji goes, is a basic workbook for writing English sentences in Japanese. So far, every book I find seems to start you at square one, with an introduction to kana, and never seem to get around to much kanji. Or, they try to teach you the first set of common Kanji (very slowly) as you go.

I realize people who aren’t self-teaching usually aren’t using RTK, so most workbooks probably take that approach. But have any of you, after finishing RTK1, used books that really helped you break into full-sentence writing?

Thanks!

Sorry if this has already been posted, I just couldn’t find any topic this specific. If you know of some, please let me know!

I think it's probably easier to go on Lang-8, make friends, and write sentences and get corrections than it is to get a workbook, especially if you have the textbook/example sentences to work with already. It'll also be more interesting (and therefore you'll learn more) because you'll construct sentences you want to say instead of regurgitating tired sentences from a workbook, even if those sentences are the same.

Furthermore, just because a workbook tells you to write "I went to the supermarket" in kana doesn't mean you can't write it with kanji. =)

kainzero Wrote:I think it's probably easier to go on Lang-8, make friends, and write sentences and get corrections than it is to get a workbook,

This.

kainzero Wrote:Furthermore, just because a workbook tells you to write "I went to the supermarket" in kana doesn't mean you can't write it with kanji. =)

lol! True. I suppose it would be nice to have a way to check if my answer is correct. I've been wanting to join Lang-8 for a long time, but I wouldn't want to get in the way of beginners + by being a < beginner, if you know what I mean.
Then again, perhaps other Lang-8 members don't mind someone who's never had any sentence writing practice...
Either way though, I'd love to find *some* kind of introduction, just to get the hang of writing more than single kana and single kanji in general. Maybe I don't need a workbook for that, maybe I should just use online recourses, but I prefer to work with an actual book when I can.

wccrawford Wrote:

kainzero Wrote:I think it's probably easier to go on Lang-8, make friends, and write sentences and get corrections than it is to get a workbook,

This.

This.

But... I don't know whether it's actually such a good idea to start with producing output right away. I'd focus more on building a decent understanding of native Japanese and get a lot of immersion first to get a feel for "what sounds right". But that's just my 2厘.


I think what magamo said about this is right: when you don't know how to express what you want to say in Japanese (which is the default when you've just started out), you'll try to translate it from English using the grammar rules you've learned. This (naturally, if you're being exact) results in very unnatural sounding Japanese sentences, because grammar rules applied to Japanese sentences (literally) produce very strange sounding English sentences, so to do it right you'd have to start with very strange English phrases and translate them to Japanese, which of course, you normally don't do. (gracious, try to entangle what I mean there, I'm tired).

Try to look at the Genki's series Exerice book. Inside there are many exercises for full sentence translation, they are organised by grammar points.

On Lang-8, speaking English is a premium, so even if you write really basic Japanese sentences they'll get corrected in hopes that you'll correct their English.

If you want right answers you can't get the Genki workbook unless you also want to buy the teacher's edition.

As for whether or not you need simple corrections, that's up to you. Personally I'm fine with speaking/writing unnaturally as long as I can be understood. You might develop bad habits, but you also get practice with learning how to express what you want to say or write, even if it's really simple.

Actually, I have a book that might help you get started writing sentences on Lang-8, in a diary format, if you so desire. It's called にほんご日記ノート (nihongo nikki nooto), which means "Japanese Diary Notebook." It's by ALC, and it's in Japanese and in English as well. It takes you from the very basics of "Today was sunny" to "It's so worrisome that I don't progress in Japanese." The idea is that you learn how to keep a daily diary in Japanese, and become awesome at writing by doing so.

Every time you want to learn something new, try a new lesson, and learn a new sentence pattern type to describe what new and amazing things you are doing, like eating bagels and buying shoes.

It gives you the sentence formats to follow, and some vocab to plug in, then gives you a slap on the butt to go off and do it on your own. If you want to buy it, I'd recommend using Kinokuniya's US service. Search for ISBN: 978-4-7574-1555-3. It'll probably run you about $28, and it's in stock in NY and San Franciso.

You can search Kinokuniya US here:
http://bookweb.kinokuniya.co.jp/guest/cg...gi?AREA=02

Just copy/paste the ISBN number into the field labeled ISBN, pick the store you want it from, and order it. Select English if you need to.

kainzero Wrote:On Lang-8, speaking English is a premium, so even if you write really basic Japanese sentences they'll get corrected in hopes that you'll correct their English.

If you want right answers you can't get the Genki workbook unless you also want to buy the teacher's edition.

This must be a novelty of the new edition of books. For the old edition there was a separate Answer Key.

My suggestion is A Dictionary of Basic Japanese Sentence Patterns. You get sentence patterns, example sentences, and a formula to form your own sentences. A typical sentence pattern looks like this: N1 の方が N2 より Adj です。 So you can learn to say things like 肉の方が野菜より好きだ。

Nagareboshi Wrote:This must be a novelty of the new edition of books. For the old edition there was a separate Answer Key.

There was?
Hmm. I wonder whatever stopped people in class from just filling out their workbooks with the answer key.

kainzero Wrote:

Nagareboshi Wrote:This must be a novelty of the new edition of books. For the old edition there was a separate Answer Key.

There was?
Hmm. I wonder whatever stopped people in class from just filling out their workbooks with the answer key.

Yes there was. *click me* There is a downloadable copy of the Answer Key for Genki I and the Workbook available for the new edition. It is free of charge until September 30! *click me*

The Answer Key is really only useful for self-learners and not so much for people taking classes. People in classrooms get direct feedback so they don't need to check their answers. A teacher might also notice when someone hands in a homework and used the answer key to solve a problem. For them the only value the answer key could hold is that all the 聞き取り練習 exercises are transcribed in the back of the book.