Hey guys,

Just want to get an opinion on something that I came across recently in one of the blogs that I've been following.

The author of the blog is a Singaporean who is currently teaching English in Japan as an ALT.

Recently, his blog has attracted some unwanted attention from a guy who apparently has the need to flaunt his amazing English grammar skill on net blog entries...

Here's some titbits from his comments:

Posted by Gone major on September 1, 2011 at 5:10 pm

Look at the piss poor English in this post alone.

-> I’m sorry if it’s too small to see. I’m really lazy to transfer the large format and edit again.

What is ‘to transfer the large format’? It isn’t a careless mistake, because even ‘to transfer to/into the large format’ doesn’t make sense.

-> If this is not good enough to wash your dragon hands, I don’t know what is.

What in the world are ‘dragon hands’?

-> And the appetizer is… pig’s ears!

What kind of English speaking S’porean spells using American spellings? Appetizer?

Anyway, you can’t write English for nuts. It is 1am and I am too tired to write anymore. But you have no business teaching English.

...

Seriously, teach your native language – Chinese – and stop feeding the poor little kids your broken English.


Any opinions? Should the blog author stop teaching English in Japan and return to Singapore? Heh...

Singapore is well known for the fact that their mix of Chinese and English as official languages has created a weird "Chinglish" hybrid. In fact it even has it's own wikipedia entry:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Singlish

In the post you quoted, yes there are a few grammar mistakes that sound like Chinese bleeding through. BUT realistically, this has no relation to how well he teaches English (which is likely to be set patterns and vocab via textbook).

Why you posting this here anyway?! Strange to get a forum involved in the trolling of another one. Just tell the OP to deal with trolls in the same way as anywhere; ignore them, delete their comments or ban them from posting.

He's an ALT, not a professional private tutor. Most of those he's "teaching" probably don't know a smack of English anyway, his non-native nuances probably won't affect them a whole lot for the short period of time he spends with them.

I think it's pretty cool that he's able to teach English as a non-native English speaker though, I thought with all the competition nowadays it would be next to impossible for a non-native to land that job. Not that I have any experience on what the situation is like.

edit: So English is an official language in Singapore, huh. ^^'

Well... I do understand that it's just net trolling but it actually leads in to my next question on the general standard of ALT in Japan generally and if they are "qualified" to teach without having received proper trainings on how to teach... I've seen arguments from different camps (namely those who with trainings vs. those without)

I also wonder if a perceived non-native English speaker whose first language is English is deemed as being unqualified to teach English in an official setting?

Personally being a Singaporean, I do understand that we have a reputation for speaking "non-standard" English as well as having a different accent for our pronunciation. We do however believe that our English grammar are pretty decent for those of us who used English as the medium of communication at home.

As this forum is frequented mainly by native English speakers, I'll just like to get a feel on the sentiments here. I believe this situation could apply to any other country using English in business communications such as Philippines and India.

I half expected the author of the blog to be writing in Singlish, which is awesome and not “Chinglish” (which sounds like one of those silly labels like “Engrish”), but it doesn't seem like Singlish to me, just the occasional non-native awkwardness (this impression is not based on the criticisms by the overly bitter commenter).

By the way @istel, it's “tidbits”.

nest0r Wrote:I half expected the author of the blog to be writing in Singlish, which is awesome and not “Chinglish” (which sounds like one of those silly labels like “Engrish”), but it doesn't seem like Singlish to me, just the occasional non-native awkwardness (this impression is not based on the criticisms by the overly bitter commenter).

By the way @istel, it's “tidbits”.

Thanks for the correction. In my defense, that was what I typed but it was auto-corrected by my Firefox spellchecker hee...

Cheers!

istel Wrote:

nest0r Wrote:I half expected the author of the blog to be writing in Singlish, which is awesome and not “Chinglish” (which sounds like one of those silly labels like “Engrish”), but it doesn't seem like Singlish to me, just the occasional non-native awkwardness (this impression is not based on the criticisms by the overly bitter commenter).

By the way @istel, it's “tidbits”.

Thanks for the correction. In my defense, that was what I typed but it was auto-corrected by my Firefox spellchecker hee...

Cheers!

Well apparently it's also spelled titbits, but I've never seen it spelled that way, so, my bad? But even if I were from someplace where that spelling is common, I'd probably change it. ;p

istel Wrote:Well... I do understand that it's just net trolling but it actually leads in to my next question on the general standard of ALT in Japan generally and if they are "qualified" to teach without having received proper trainings on how to teach... I've seen arguments from different camps (namely those who with trainings vs. those without)

I also wonder if a perceived non-native English speaker whose first language is English is deemed as being unqualified to teach English in an official setting?

I'm currently working an English teacher; not in Japan, but pretty sure the situation is the same there. To answer your questions:

- The (white) Westerns ALTs at my cram-school are all there just to make the school look official and attractive to parents. Our (non-existent) teaching skills are pretty much irrelevant.

- The Chinese teachers (who do a majority of the work) are the opposite; they have real teaching training, but have poor English skills; certainly far worse than the blog poster you quoted. But they teach from set textbooks, and the parents can't speak enough English to assess them, so whether or not they're "qualified" to teach English is largely irrelevant.

- The entire point of learning English at these schools is to help the kids pass meaningless school English tests via rote-memorisation drills from textbooks, while at the same time keeping them busy until the parents finish work at 10pm. The overall effectiveness of the teaching and teachers is almost completely irrelevant.

nest0r Wrote:Well apparently it's also spelled titbits, but I've never seen it spelled that way, so, my bad? But even if I were from someplace where that spelling is common, I'd probably change it. ;p

It's spelt and pronounced "Titbits" in British English. Guess which type of English Singaporeans learn?

aphasiac Wrote:

nest0r Wrote:Well apparently it's also spelled titbits, but I've never seen it spelled that way, so, my bad? But even if I were from someplace where that spelling is common, I'd probably change it. ;p

It's spelt and pronounced "Titbits" in British English. Guess which type of English Singaporeans learn?

Istel wrote that they spelled it “tidbits” but spellcheck changed it, plus in Singapore there's more to consider than the influence of something like British English, which is in part why one mustn't confuse Singlish with Chinese-influenced non-standard English.

I read that it was a UK variant which I'm sure means it's used in many countries, but I can't recall ever seeing it before, which, due to my objective acknowledgment of the depth and breadth of my reading, hehe, leads me to believe it's not very common, at least relative to the variant “tidbits”.

Especially online, American slang is pretty prevalent in English comments, so I'd avoid it, personally, among non-native speakers especially. Yes that's right, I'm calling for the death of “titbits”.

Yes, in England, the land after which English is named, we do indeed say TITbits.

You may now sit. (National Anthem ends)

mizunooto Wrote:Yes, in England, the land after which English is named, we do indeed say TITbits.

You may now sit. (National Anthem ends)

I can't declare it as a fact because it all runs together, but I'm certain I've come across “tidbits” in English publications more than I have “titbits”.

But to be authentic English it has to
a) Be rickety-sounding like the name of an old country lane, or implausible like villages called Steeple Bumpstead or Nether Wallop [link not perfect but gives reasonable idea]
b) Have possibilities for double entendre
c) Be different to what an American is saying


Most dictionaries seem to have it this way

titbit |ˈtɪtbɪt|
noun
chiefly British spelling of tidbit .
tidbit |ˈtɪdbɪt| (also chiefly Brit. titbit )
noun
a small piece of tasty food.
• a small and particularly interesting item of gossip or information.

However in "Goooooogle" there are 16.9m tidbits and less than 2m titbits. A fascinating tidbid of information!

Anyway I have forgotten what the point of this is now. It's certainly not about "Douche"...

Through my whole public education I've never had a native English teacher. In most private language schools beginner levels always have classes with non-native speakers, not only is it cheaper for the school but also less intimidating for students.

Its a non-issue in my opinion. Do we require 1st grade math teachers to have a PHD?

http://ngrams.googlelabs.com/graph?conte...moothing=3

native/non-native isn't usually that important an issue unless the teacher reaaally sucks (barely able to string a sentence together), which isn't usually the case.

One observation I can make though is that bilinguals are usually better teachers than monolinguals, especially for low-level students. I would also argue that things like TESOL certifications make rather little difference, because they just teach whatever specific flawed teaching style is in vogue in teaching academia based on whatever semi-political reasons. It's by no means a guarantee of quality just possibly false confidence.

^ doesn't sound like you know much about TESOL.

Someone who has done a decent TESOL (like CELTA) will be way better at the start than if they hadn't studied anything about teaching, or practiced and received feedback on their teaching.

Even if they did a bad TESOL, they'd still probably fare better than someone who has never even thought about how to teach.

The idea that a four week course can transform someone into a teacher is totally ridiculous. It just pre-installs whatever popular teaching methodology X the school prescribes to, I don't think it encourages thinking about how to teach. It's just an extra hoop to make people jump through to narrow down the number of candidates. If I were hiring esl teachers, I would hire based on character assessment and experience not a 4 week certificate.

you don't get taught a 'teaching methodology' in particular, nor does it promise 'turn you into a teacher.' I can't really be bothered to explain in detail but if you're interested read up on what is involved in a CELTA... Basically you plan and teach 6 classes, getting feedback from good experienced teachers, so you learn the areas you need to improve. You also watch a load more classes, so you can see how different activities and techniques work in a real classroom situation. A lot of improvement comes from basic stuff like grading your language, not talking too much and classroom management but this is where it's really easy to mess up if you're not aware how much it affects a class.

So in other words you get about 2 days teaching experience and a tiny amount of lesson planning experience with some feedback from teachers who may or may not know wtf they're talking about. How is your performance assessed if not against some model teaching style X held in high esteem by whoever watches over you? It is almost certainly not judged by the progress made by the students in the practice class. This would be almost impossible to judge in the timeframe anyway. Who evaluates these courses? The english teaching industry? It's pretty clear that as long as consumers remain clueless, most of the English teaching industry (at least in Japan) doesn't particularly care about what is effective, just in what sells. And being able to advertise certified teachers can bring in customers. It's like quack 'doctors' with phoney degrees selling whatever online. Or is it the public education system and academia (politics) that assesses these courses?

35 Accents in the English Language

Almost all of the best English teachers I have met in Japan speak English as a second language. An instructor I worked with previously from Detroit never used articles in his speech. It was a nightmare trying to teach one of his regular students.

(Off topic!
I've always really liked this one. 21 Accents:

Peter Sellers is also famous for being good at it (from the Dr. Strangelove special features):

The guy you posted has a really bad Japanese accent, haha. I could do sooooo much better.)

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/CELTA

You don't need it to get a standard teaching job in Japan tbh, but higher paid jobs often want it.

nest0r Wrote:

aphasiac Wrote:

nest0r Wrote:Well apparently it's also spelled titbits, but I've never seen it spelled that way, so, my bad? But even if I were from someplace where that spelling is common, I'd probably change it. ;p

It's spelt and pronounced "Titbits" in British English. Guess which type of English Singaporeans learn?

Istel wrote that they spelled it “tidbits” but spellcheck changed it, plus in Singapore there's more to consider than the influence of something like British English, which is in part why one mustn't confuse Singlish with Chinese-influenced non-standard English.

I read that it was a UK variant which I'm sure means it's used in many countries, but I can't recall ever seeing it before, which, due to my objective acknowledgment of the depth and breadth of my reading, hehe, leads me to believe it's not very common, at least relative to the variant “tidbits”.

Especially online, American slang is pretty prevalent in English comments, so I'd avoid it, personally, among non-native speakers especially. Yes that's right, I'm calling for the death of “titbits”.

Well... It's a long story but we were basically taught British English since Elementary 1 as Britain was our ex-colonial master. It has pretty lasting influences on much most part of our life here in Singapore namely; government structure, various standards, metric systems and right down to the way we drive here on the roads.

We used to pronounce our words pretty much how the British/English do it with some idiosyncrasies of our own due to the mother tongues' influence (i.e. Mandarin, Malay and Tamil). Along the way, all this sort of got mangled up and that's where the infamous Singlish came about.

Due to the fact that UK's "soft power" around the world is waning and the amount of US media influence that is prevalent on both the TV and Internet today. We pretty much switched from the British pronunciation to the American pronunciation. Although there are words where we prefer the English way of pronunciation (e.g. Lieutenant pronounced "Left-tenent"), we pretty much use the American spelling in our working life. I guess another reason would be that the American spelling are phonetically closer to its pronunciation compared to the British?

Having digressed that much... The reason I find this interesting is because my wife who's Japanese does not subscribe to the fact that non-native Japanese learners could attain native command or "Standard" Japanese accent once they're past the age of teens.

Other than the myths of Japaneses as being "a special race" and the Japanese language being so difficult to learn that the mind can no longer accept any other language due to its abuse on the brain, which supposedly explains their dismal ability to master English.

With this "incident" other than the fact that he's an online troll and the general feel around the Internet, it appears to me that it's not just the Japaneses who felt that way about their language I guess?

The reason why I posted this here was because I believe most of the forumites here believe that attainment of native command is achievable if one puts in enough hard work in one's studies. Which is why I'm extremely interested to hear the comments here as well as when can one finally be recognized as having a native command of any language?

Cheers!