I met some students from different Japanese universities and I did various internship with Columbia University students. The former were having fun "because they made it to university it's time to relax and make up for the time lost in high school(quote)" and they were doing バイト,部活 and so on. The latter.... I think you can imagine how they were doing. Being said that, I've never met anyone from 早稲田・東大・京葉・慶応 so my previous statement is not totally fair but..

Quote:therefore no one knows what 東大 is

If no one knows 東大 outside Japan, aren't you agreeing with me? XD I'm joking

People work their arses off to get into 東大. It's the top uni to aim for in a country of 120ish million people. I think it's fair to say it's a good school. Also just the name Tokyo University is going to impress people. I think any university with a capital city in it's name is going to carry some weight, especially if it's a city the size of Tokyo.

Here is 東大's official stance on the matter.

"To enroll in a faculty of the University of Tokyo you are required to pass the same general screening test as Japanese students or a special screening test for students who have graduated from foreign schools. You will require four years for graduation; six years for graduation from the Faculty of Medicine and the Department of Veterinary Science in the Faculty of Agriculture. This page is an explanation of the special screening test for graduates of foreign schools. Most of the lectures in the faculties of the University of Tokyo are delivered in Japanese, even for foreign students. As a result, foreign students must master the Japanese language before they enroll in the University of Tokyo."

Note the part where it says "must MASTER the Japanese language". Tall order. They've obviously never had to study Japanese before. Pricks.

As a side note... I was looking at Kobe university's foreign students page n about entering and what not. Tells you what you have to do to get in to each various department and stuff. Most of them you have to take the regular entrance exam... however it was kind enough to display the number of people that got admitted. The number of applicants was always a few... the number of people admitted? 0. Nearly every single time. Kinda goes to show it's not as easy as one thinks. Very interesting.

If know lots of people from Todai, mainly because my university in the US had a lots of graduate students from there, plus some exchange undergrads.

No employer in the US will be impressed with a degree form Todai though. It just sounds like another mediocre public school to people who don't know about Japan (i.e. no one in this forum). On top of that I doubt that one would look up to someone who completed a degree in Japanese. For US employers that's not necessarily a good thing, it may even work against you. Opinions of people in this forum are totally skewed anyway. Most US employers will think that you're too much into Anime or have some kind of Asian fetish. They don't respect Japan like people in this forum do.

If you are planning to live in Japan forever then I totally support the idea of wanting to go to Todai. I.e, I support the idea for Japanese people. For someone who plans to work internationally I don't. American and European universities have the best reputation worldwide, Todai doesn't come even close for the average person (i.e. the person that will hire you) in Europe/America.

In terms of education, I wasn't impressed with the people I have met from Todai (about 10-15 people I know from my uni). Yes, they are smart, but they were lacking behind in knowledge compared to their American counterparts. Also, you should be aware that almost all the rankings out there apply to research and graduate school, not undergraduate.

I agree with mezbup though. Todai is of course better than some run of the mill university. But I'd choose a good US public school over Todai any time.

I'd wager to say that the difficulty of getting into Todai, and the average intelligence of its attendees is higher than any Ivy League institution and possibly any other major university in the world. With so many people vying for so few spots, the amount of time and effort a student has to put in to get accepted is just unfathomable. I know a lot of people who went to Ivy League schools and I can tell you that none of them worked even remotely as hard to get into college as a typical Todai student has to.

That makes me curious why it tends to be ranked between 25 and 40 most of the time. It could be that the quality of instruction just isn't there, because its reputation is enough to draw applicants in by the trainload. Could be that like other Japanese institutions it fosters a maxin' and relaxin' atmosphere for the ones who do actually get in. Could also be that the entrance exams' extreme focus on academics and trivia results in accepting, and then graduating people who are not very well-rounded people.

JimmySeal: Getting in is incredibly difficult. The people who DO get in are usually very smart or very hard working. Once you're in though it's just like any other Japanese university. Lot's of free time, having fun, and arubaito.

JimmySeal Wrote:That makes me curious why it tends to be ranked between 25 and 40 most of the time. It could be that the quality of instruction just isn't there, because its reputation is enough to draw applicants in by the trainload.

Academic ranking has different criteria. Undergraduate teaching and ability to find a job is usually a small and minor part of it.

From Wikipedia:

The Shanghai Ranking:

Quote:The ranking compared 1200 higher education institutions worldwide according to a formula that took into account alumni winning Nobel Prizes and Fields Medals (10 percent), staff winning Nobel Prizes and Fields Medals (20 percent), highly-cited researchers in 21 broad subject categories (20 percent), articles published in the journals Nature and Science (20 percent), the Science Citation Index and Social Sciences Citation Index (20 percent) and the per capita academic performance (on the indicators above) of an institution (10 percent).

The Times Higher Education Ranking:

Quote:Industry Income - innovation
* Research income from industry (per academic staff) - 2.5%

International diversity
* Ratio of international to domestic staff - 3%
* Ratio of international to domestic students - 2%

Teaching – the learning environment
* Reputational survey (teaching) - 15%
* PhDs awards per academic - 6%
* Undergrad. admitted per academic - 4.5%
* Income per academic - 2.25%
* PhDs/undergraduate degrees awarded - 2.25%

Research – volume, income and reputation
* Reputational survey (research) -19.5 %
* Research income (scaled) - 5.25%
* Papers per research and academic staff - 4.5%
* Public research income/ total research income - 0.75%

Citations – research influence
* Citation impact (normalised average citation per paper) - 32.5%

The QS World University ranking:

Quote:Academic peer review (40%)
Recruiter review (10%)
Faculty student ratio (20%)
Citations per faculty (20%)
International orientation (10%)

It's just hearsay from my Japanese teacher, but I heard Toudai is incredibly conservative and the graduates often go into the public sector/government jobs, for which I believe non-Japanese citizens are ineligible.

kainzero Wrote:It's just hearsay from my Japanese teacher, but I heard Toudai is incredibly conservative and the graduates often go into the public sector/government jobs, for which I believe non-Japanese citizens are ineligible.

Yeah, I get the impression that Toudai is pretty much a guaranteed ticket to a well-paying, high-job-security 公務員 job and that's one of the things that makes Toudai attractive to a lot of people.

I know it's generally said that Western undergrad education is ahead of its Japanese counterpart, but I wonder how a degree from a top school in a less prominent EU country stacks up to a degree from Todai - or elsewhere, for that matter. In my case, I could apply for a top technical college here in Sweden, i.e. Chalmers or KTH, but I'm not sure what the best move would be if one wishes to be able to work overseas or internationally. Insight appreciated.

Quote:I know it's generally said that Western undergrad education is ahead of its Japanese counterpart, but I wonder how a degree from a top school in a less prominent EU country stacks up to a degree from Todai - or elsewhere, for that matter. In my case, I could apply for a top technical college here in Sweden, i.e. Chalmers or KTH, but I'm not sure what the best move would be if one wishes to be able to work overseas or internationally. Insight appreciated.

I doubt that it even matters. Rankings are practically irrelevant for undergraduate education because they are based on research, publications, faculty awards, and so on. Higher rankings do not translate into a better undergraduate education, at most they translate into more opportunities in terms of jobs search and possible (undergrad) research positions. It's a whole different story if you were talking about grad school.

As long as you are not going to an Ivy League or Top10 school the name barely matters, your grades and work experience will carry much more weight. US employers would most likely look at Chalmers, KTH and Todai in the same way, giving preference to neither one. However, they might "trust" European education more than they trust Japanese (or Asian) education. The same is probably true for many other countries or people who do not know very well about Asia/Japan. I would say especially in Europe, which has much less exposure to Asian culture/education than the US, you're better off with a European degree. The only place where Todai has a "Wow-Factor" is Japan or among Japanese people. On top of that, European education is much cheaper than its counterparts in other countries

Let's put it like that. I'd go to Todai only if I wouldn't need to go out of my way to get in. That is, if my Japanese was already good enough to pass the admission tests and if I either had enough money to attend or could get a scholarship. I would simply choose it for the experience and for the purpose of perfecting my Japanese and getting international exposure. International exposure if always a good thing, no matter where it is. However, I don't think it's worth to make a big effort and spend lot of time and money towards trying to enter Todai. In that case I'd go with your other choices which are decent as well.

All right, thanks for the input.

I've been gravitating towards applying domestically for undergrad, while also applying for scholarships and switching to Japan in case I get accepted, which is mostly for the experience.

I'd consider the UK, too, but their tuition fees are marvelously high. ;p

JimmySeal Wrote:I'd wager to say that the difficulty of getting into Todai, and the average intelligence of its attendees is higher than any Ivy League institution and possibly any other major university in the world.

Cramming for years to pass entrance exams =/= intelligence.

I don't know what head stuck in the ground hiring managers you guys have been talking to, but people working in international companies typically know that Tokyo is a kinda important place that is going to have a pretty reputable university. |: