Hey Guys. I'm getting a tattoo of the Bushido code on both my arms. I've asked on several forums, and received some criticism (I've heard it all) as well as good info on making sure the kanji is right. I just wanted to get some second opinions though, because I've received various advice. Heres what I've got so far.

http://i.imgur.com/oE2sJ.jpg

My questions are that I've been told that often times when certain characters are lined up next to each other, they often change the meaning of what your trying to say. So if I'm lining up several of the tenets, vertically down my arm, and the rest of the tenets, on my other arm, in this fashion, will it change the meaning? Keep in mind, the kanji appear distorted, in order to fit them all in the picture.

http://i.imgur.com/XFFpZ.jpg

My other question was, does it matter the order. One person told me that I should make it so I have the single kanji tenets on one arm, so that it flows, and the two kanji tenets on the other arm, or it just looks off? What do you think?

Thank you guys.

I don't find the appeal in kanji tattoos,its like inscribing your arm with the name Jesus in roman letters. If you done RTK already...its pretty stupid once you picked apart kanji from all sides,but its up to you. Calligraphy is a different story as its an art. In other words,if you're going to get a tattoo get a real one.

Also the rise in new members is really suspicious,I think I already know where they're coming from but I'd save time for explanation.

Why would you tattoo yourself with something you don't understand?

Do you actually live by the code? If not, isn't it like putting random quotes from the Quran on there if you're not a Muslim? Actually, it's kinda like all those people who wear Che Guevara T-shirts and have no idea who he actually was.

So anyway, you missed one: 馬鹿外人

Ginmanm Wrote:I don't find the appeal in kanji tattoos,its like inscribing your arm with the name Jesus in roman letters. If you done RTK already...its pretty stupid once you picked apart kanji from all sides,but its up to you. Calligraphy is a different story as its an art. In other words,if you're going to get a tattoo get a real one.

Also the rise in new members is really suspicious,I think I already know where they're coming from but I'd save time for explanation.

All tatoos are stupid.

And, please explain--that last sentence requires explanation. ;o

I guess I'm not understanding this groups hostility and lack of helpfulness...if you don't want to answer my question, fine, don't answer. But to just answer with "tattoo's are stupid." or "馬鹿外人" then I guess I'm just not seeing the point of even bothering to answer...in a forum, dedicated to learning about kanji...

I've done the footwork to make sure its accurate. I didn't just blindly find this on the internet, I had to ask around to make sure the kanji looked right, and they were the correct characters, which took a surprising amount of time... So I think I deserve a little respect, and a few helpful answers, regardless of your own personal feelings, an attitudes on tattoo's, or any other warrantless reason to attack me..

antiher0z Wrote:I guess I'm not understanding this groups hostility and lack of helpfulness...if you don't want to answer my question, fine, don't answer. But to just answer with "tattoo's are stupid." or "馬鹿外人" then I guess I'm just not seeing the point of even bothering to answer...in a forum, dedicated to learning about kanji...

I've done the footwork to make sure its accurate. I didn't just blindly find this on the internet, I had to ask around to make sure the kanji looked right, and they were the correct characters, which took a surprising amount of time... So I think I deserve a little respect, and a few helpful answers, regardless of your own personal feelings, an attitudes on tattoo's, or any other warrantless reason to attack me..

It's a forum, not answers.yahoo.com, we're entitled to reply with something that doesn't answer your question.

Neither is it required there. But this is a forum about learning kanji as I recall...not one to make snide remarks, and insult posters.

antiher0z Wrote:Neither is it required there. But this is a forum about learning kanji as I recall...not one to make snide remarks, and insult posters.

"My other question was, does it matter the order. One person told me that I should make it so I have the single kanji tenets on one arm, so that it flows, and the two kanji tenets on the other arm, or it just looks off? What do you think?"

There you go,why don't you learn kanji before getting a permanent fix to your body?

While I am against tattoos and in particular tattoos you don't understand, I'll recommend this:

If you really want kanji tattoos, don't get them done by someone who wasn't born and raised in Japan. Don't get them done by someone who doesn't have a high Japanese calligraphy （書道) ranking. Otherwise you're just going to get some cliche stuff inked into your body in a boring (and likely incorrect/misshapen) font with no art or soul.

If this is really that important to you, fly to Japan and get it done by someone who knows wtf they're doing instead of a hack using a stencil backwards. The questions in your post are things that your artist should be able to answer instantly with confidence.

As students of the language who are familiar with Japanese culture, they are helping you by telling you not to do it. Westerners having kanji tattoos are usually considered a joke by Japanese people. Why would anyone help you do something ill-advised?

On a side note, I am driving to Kobe today. Does anyone know of a nice bar I can stop at along the way for some sake bomb shots?

[Katsuo]

antiher0z Wrote:My questions are that I've been told that often times when certain characters are lined up next to each other, they often change the meaning of what your trying to say. So if I'm lining up several of the tenets, vertically down my arm, and the rest of the tenets, on my other arm, in this fashion, will it change the meaning? Keep in mind, the kanji appear distorted, in order to fit them all in the picture.

So you're asking if it's possible to accidentally make a multi-character word by varying the order of these individual kanji: 義勇仁礼誠?

Yes, there's two possible two-kanji words in there:
義勇 (giyuu) "loyalty & courage"
仁義 (jingi) "humanity & justice, duty"

Kanji characters can be written in many styles, so I hope you find a tattoo artist who can do them to your taste.

Incidentally, browsing Google images, I came across this and this. The first one looks poor to me: both the overall design and the fact that some individual kanji are out of proportion and drawn incorrectly. I quite like the second one, though. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder of course.

As a long time lurker here on Kanji Koohii I may be a bit out of place posting on this topic (way out of place). However I was shocked by this topic. Not by the negativity, I saw that coming, but the general rudeness made me lose a little more faith in the internet and humanity in general. For the 6 months I've been stalking this forum I've never seen a thread like this, not once. Part of me understands where they're coming from and another part of me is with you. Truly a troublesome topic.

I agree with Jarvik7 his advice is good old common sense with a bit of love for art. However while flying to Japan may be out of the picture (for specific reasons or not) finding a person with a high ranking in Japanese calligraphy is a must. If your tattoo doesn't flow or breath its not the same, it just becomes another incompetent tattoo rather than a work of art.

Bodhisamaya,
It may be seen as a joke by Japanese people but what does it matter? I think when it comes down to the end of the day its what we want for our selves, in our hearts, our little pieces of pleasure to enjoy. If I went around all my life worrying about what other people thought or how something looked to others I'd have never started learning Japanese, playing Taiko or guitar. I do not know how this seems to you, but from my eyes antiher0z is the type of person that's going to get the tattoo with or without our help so why not help him avoid an even bigger mistake?

To the rest of you making snide remarks, playing the piranha game;
why would you waste your time making unhelpful remarks. It's one thing to say "I think it's a bad idea for someone who doesn't really understand the language to get a tattoo. Just my opinion" But it's an entirely different thing to say something like "Tattoos are stupid and so are you for getting one you don't understand blah blah blah". The tone you say something in makes a world of difference so please in the future would you try to think about the tone you're setting for yourself? He came in politely with mutual respect and you took it and ran.

It could be because I'm young and naive, but I was under the impression that this was a place for true lovers of the Japanese language to come together and help one another. Even if people are just starting or looking for a quick translation proof-read. Not another forum on the internet making judgments of others and making fools of them selves.
I didn't intend for my first post to come out so full of disdain or so long and rambling. I have the utmost respect for every one here. I'm sorry if that came off harsh or abrasive. It's just my 2c.

_Myso

TheKorv Wrote:All tatoos are stupid.

Go tell that to a yakuza.

No one attacked the OP. They all offered their opinions. I have a tattoo myself, but it is something I now regret. Jarvik and Katsuo both offered helpful advice if he chooses to go through with this act.

Tattoos have historically had real, often sacred, significance for the person getting one. In Japan, it was a sign you belonged to organized crime. Still now, you are not allowed to enter many public baths with one uncovered. Why would a person put something permanent on their body without a deep appreciation of its meaning?

Another piece of advice: Don't introduce yourself to a forum by opening a new thread asking for help, and then getting offended by honest opinions from the members. Join in a few discussions first so everyone can get to know you a little bit. This cold-calling approach is just rude.

I have a question for the OP, what interests you so much in the 武士道 that you would like a tattoo of it? Maybe if you explain why you are interested in this particular part of Japanese culture, people will understand better and be able to help you better. (and please say it is not because you want to be a samurai )

Not to mention that bushido is mostly a bunch of fictionalized idealization created long after the "golden age" was over, just like chivalry.

antiher0z Wrote:Neither is it required there. But this is a forum about learning kanji as I recall...not one to make snide remarks, and insult posters.

It is a forum about learning kanji, but you haven't come here to learn kanji. You've come for free consulting services.

antiher0z Wrote:Hey Guys. I'm getting a tattoo of the Bushido code on both my arms. I've asked on several forums, and received some criticism (I've heard it all) as well as good info on making sure the kanji is right. I just wanted to get some second opinions though, because I've received various advice. Heres what I've got so far.

http://i.imgur.com/oE2sJ.jpg

My questions are that I've been told that often times when certain characters are lined up next to each other, they often change the meaning of what your trying to say. So if I'm lining up several of the tenets, vertically down my arm, and the rest of the tenets, on my other arm, in this fashion, will it change the meaning? Keep in mind, the kanji appear distorted, in order to fit them all in the picture.

http://i.imgur.com/XFFpZ.jpg

My other question was, does it matter the order. One person told me that I should make it so I have the single kanji tenets on one arm, so that it flows, and the two kanji tenets on the other arm, or it just looks off? What do you think?

Thank you guys.

At the end of the day it is your choice to get a tattoo or not. Remember their are cultures where tattoo's are taboo including Japan. I don't think that there should be any problem in using 「義勇仁礼誠。名誉。忠義。」 the Samurai code. However, you should learn the correct reading (pronunciation) and meaning (English approximate translation) of each.

I am a little surprise I forgot that I had learned this during my studies. Actually, what I learned was 「仁・義・礼・智・忠・信・孝・悌」.

Ok, its good to know there are people who are willing to help, and whom are non-judgmental. No, I don't want to be a samurai, because thats impossible, as it was a title in non-existent feudal japan. I've trained in martial arts my entire life. The samurai were a group of warriors, I truely respected. The Bushido code isn't just a code for warriors to live by, its just a general philosophy, one should all have. I know actually quite a bit about the Bushido code. It wasn't a formally written down code. Hell it wasn't written down till the 60's. The tenets I have come from Inazo Nitobe, who wrote "Bushido The Soul of Japan." The code has been highly romanticized, but as I said, its a code I myself do my best to live by.

A tattoo is meant to represent you. If your doing it for others, or your trying to impress others, you are getting it for the wrong reasons. And I wasn't trying to be rude. But I've had to explain myself to several forums, just to get a little bit of information. Tattoo's are already a taboo subject in Japan...so I'm aware of their policy's on tattoo's...much less kanji tattoos.

To Katsuo, so if I avoid pairing those characters together, I should be good then right? And thank you for answering my question.

And thank you Mysonius for your kind words. You put it much better than I ever could have.

antiher0z Wrote:A tattoo is meant to represent you. If your doing it for others, or your trying to impress others, you are getting it for the wrong reasons.

represent you to who? others? A kanji tatoo will just present you as a fool.

Why would you need to permanently remind yourself of the bushido code? Are you afraid you will forget? or that you'll change your mind later in life?

Jeez I'm with Mysonius, if you don't have anything useful to say why bother.

caivano Wrote:Jeez I'm with Mysonius, if you don't have anything useful to say why bother.

"It's a bad idea" is perfectly valid advice that the OP is free to ignore. Granted some of the posts were a bit too much of a direct attack on the OP instead of the idea.

yeah "It's a bad idea" with an explanation why is fine. not that I see that in half the posts. Of course your post and a few of the others are polite and useful tho.

caivano Wrote:Jeez I'm with Mysonius, if you don't have anything useful to say why bother.

Define useful. This is not a tightly constrained question-answer forum. If the regulars want to turn it into a discussion on the merits of tattoos, i don't see the problem with that. There are no enforced rules on this forum about keeping on topic, which frankly is one of the reasons i like it. I, for example, did not know tattoos in general were such a taboo in japan. That was useful information. Maybe not to the original poster, but when the poster joined to ask an off-topic question, that's to be expected.

This is not a forum of tattoo lovers or ancient semi-mythical warrior codes (well, i'm sure there are a few on here...). So don't be surprised if you get a few snarky responses. I gave my honest opinion that foreigners with kanji tattoos pretty much read as "馬鹿外人" to many japanese people. I did not call you an idiot. I did, however, compare people who get tattoos from cultures they aren't a part of to those people who have a certain communist guerrilla leader on their t-shirts. Because it's pretty much the same thing.