After four years of Japanese self-study and being able to reach JLPT N1 level, I've been considering going to San Francisco State University and doing the following:

1. Major or minor in Japanese (SFCSU has an excellent program w/ in-Japanese lectures on topics aside from actual language acquisition)
2. Get a degree in a (not-yet-decided) field that is beneficial in conjunction with a JPN major/minor
3. Apply for their exchange program and enter one of the academic programs listed here (most likely to be related to my non-JPN degree): http://www.calstate.edu/ip/programs/japa...rams.shtml
(not in any particular order, of course - I expect to be doing 2 & 3 at the same time)

Before I get started, though, I'd like to hear what opinions/knowledge anyone has to offer on this plan.

Career-wise, would the "Culture and Community," "Communication and Expression," or "History and International Relations" programs, and a related degree at SFCSU, be beneficial? In your opinion (and going by the example courses listed), which program would give me the most career options? I'd prefer them not to be careers that are nearly impossible to attain.

I'm mainly just concerned about whether a major I'd enjoy (ie: sociology or anthropology), and a Waseda program I'd enjoy (ie: Culture and Community) would land me in a stable career. It just seems too good to be true that I could land a stable job by getting a degree & experience in a field I actually enjoy. The more I think about it, the more difficult it is to see me enjoying a career in business and economy.

To me, a career just has to be something I can have a passion for.

note: I don't plan on having a career in Japan - I'd prefer to stay in the U.S. and be near family.

Congratulations Nuriko on achieving fluency after four years of hard work! If you enter university, it will be interesting for you to see those with degrees in Japanese not at your level
I am happy you did not depend on university to learn the language, but for a good job, the business world still looks for that degree. Though, maybe major in IT if you want to be an entrepreneur and put those Japanese skills to use?

I think I've told you this before (), but to go directly into a Japanese-using career that isn't academic, you're better off doing something practical (non-humanities) to balance the Japanese.

Ex: I combined my Japanese with the auto-mechanics I learned in high-school and a part-time auto-shop job to land a position doing marketing for a certain automotive company starting with T. My degree was in Japanese literature, but I had enough practical background..

Business and economics is a bit of a gray area, but with luck you could end up at a high paying finance company. IT/programming is also still in high demand, but you only need enough Japanese for basic office communication with coworkers. You won't really be applying your Japanese at work.

Of course, if humanities is what you're really interested in, you should aim for a teaching position at a Japanese university. Many private ones such as Nanzan (home of Heisig) hire many foreign professors. You may need a PhD to stand a chance though.
Just don't teach English.

Jarvik7 Wrote:I think I've told you this before (:P),

Yeah, and it's embarrassing to be back asking the same thing even though I got such good, detailed advice from you, haha. It was and still is hard to accept that I'd most likely have to settle for a degree related to things that make me shudder (that includes teaching). I guess it's just too bad I have to have so many sore subjects :P

But I really do appreciate your reply. If I decide to try and overcome the problems I have with these subjects, then your advice is really the best to consider.

bodhisamaya Wrote:Congratulations Nuriko on achieving fluency after four years of hard work! If you enter university, it will be interesting for you to see those with degrees in Japanese not at your level :)
I am happy you did not depend on university to learn the language, but for a good job, the business world still looks for that degree. Though, maybe major in IT if you want to be an entrepreneur and put those Japanese skills to use?

Thanks so much for your advice and words of encouragement :) I'm already intimidated just by seeing the word "entrepreneur" appear, but I will indeed consider what you've suggested.

And while I'm happy to hear you say so, I'm not so sure if the word fluency could be used to describe my Japanese XD I've always gravitated toward & done well with reading and writing, and I've managed to overcome listening comprehension hurdles, but you should hear the joke that is me trying to hold a conversation :P

Anyway, thanks again :)!!

Jarvik7 Wrote:IT/programming is also still in high demand, but you only need enough Japanese for basic office communication with coworkers. You won't really be applying your Japanese at work.

Couldn't it be possible that most foreign IT workers not knowing Japanese is the reason why they are not required to use the language?

Probably if a Japanese company actually finds someone that does know the language, they could find that person adequate for a different position/environment.

I don't know about the situation of IT workers in Japan, I'm just speculating, but that would make sense.

Nuriko, I wish I could have been in your position before entering university, as I know I would have enjoyed my year abroad in Tokyo (as part of my degree) even more than I actually did (and I enjoyed it A LOT)!

Since graduating in economics with Japanese (major with minor) I've found a lot of interest from recruitment agencies who are looking for native English-speakers with a high-level of Japanese for jobs such as translation (pharmaceutical, optics, video games, telecommunications) which are based in London, Frankfurt, California, and some other places.

If your family are in California and you want to stay close to them I'm sure there will be plenty of jobs requiring such an individual so no worries about having to live too far away!

Unfortunately I couldn't tell you whether option 1 or option 2 would be best for you. The recruitment agencies only care about the JLPT certificate, and graduating with a minor in Japanese is no guarantee of fluency (as many recruiters who've contacted me have found out to their dismay!). You should choose a major which excites/interests you enough for you to make it through 4 years of long, hard study, and if you can plan where you'll take yourself after graduation, all the better. There doesn't appear to be anything like a stable, solid career trajectory anymore, all the major Western economies seem to be topsy turvy. I acknowledge it must be different on your side of the Atlantic, where degrees cost many times more than they do in Western Europe, to pick something on the basis of pure interest without thought to what jobs you can get afterwards...

I've been told by a Waseda student that their's is the best "drinking" school of the top Tokyo universities, which sounds awesome to me but it might differ from what you're looking for :-P

Thank you, jasdev, for such a thorough and informative reply. It's reassuring to know that you've been able to receive many job offers even from employers outside of Japan.
And it does, after all, seem to be the most important that I go for something I can enjoyably get through in four years.

I've been hearing about how a degree in comparative literature may open gateways to various different career options. I'm positive I would enjoy a comparative literature program with an emphasis in Japanese and possibly Chinese, but I'm very wary that there may be few career opportunities for me. Does anyone have any thoughts on this?

On another note...

Is there anyone who thinks that broadcast and electronic communication arts combined with Japanese may be a good route? Here is the specific program I'm looking at: http://www.sfsu.edu/~bulletin/current/pr...htm#473508
What's looking best to me at the moment is the Business Aspects of Electronic Media emphasis.

I'm looking forward to hearing any opinions or advice. Thanks for reading!

Update: After some thinking, I think I've reached somewhat of a decision. I have decided that I want to pursue a career in Library Science by applying for the program at San Jose State University, as I always have liked the idea of being a librarian or least work in a library. But before that, I still plan to attend SFCSU for a Japanese major while doing their abroad program. Most Library Science programs require or recommend knowledge of a second language, which gives me a good excuse to go through with it (I definitely did not want to exclude Japanese from my college studies, so I'm glad for this).

If anyone could shed some light on whether knowledge of a second language would actually be used in a library setting, I'd be very grateful :)

Nuriko Wrote:Update: After some thinking, I think I've reached somewhat of a decision. I have decided that I want to pursue a career in Library Science by applying for the program at San Jose State University, as I always have liked the idea of being a librarian or least work in a library. But before that, I still plan to attend SFCSU for a Japanese major while doing their abroad program. Most Library Science programs require or recommend knowledge of a second language, which gives me a good excuse to go through with it (I definitely did not want to exclude Japanese from my college studies, so I'm glad for this).

If anyone could shed some light on whether knowledge of a second language would actually be used in a library setting, I'd be very grateful

I hate to be negative about it but in my opinion it looks like a poor career choice.

We're on the verge of digital e-book revolution, public libraries slowly fade into nonexistence (I remember how often I and my friends used to go but now its just easier to use the internet/kindle, not to mention libraries I went to are now gone), what will be left are University libraries but even that might slowly go digital when another round of cost cutting comes.
Basically you'd be working in a field that will face an increasing amount of venues closed, tons of people left unemployed and competing for shrinking amount of jobs left. All this is usually paid for by the government, that will just go digital to cut costs when tough times come.
To me it looks horribly bleak, no matter how much computer science they think they are inserting into the program, if a big player opens a digital library its over. You don't need infrastructure for it, you don't need all those employees to make it work and most certainly such big players won't need Library Science graduates to make it happen (just some IT guys and a few bean-counters to figure out the price).

I could of course be totally wrong about my predictions but seeing how digital distribution doesn't exactly help video/dvd rental shops to stay in business, I'd say you're at least taking a huge leap of faith.

I say do what Jarvik7 suggested, get something practical as support for your "soft skill" in Japanese. If only I had been that smart during my Uni and got proper language skills, I'd already be working in Japan for a few years, earning loads of cash along the way.

Nuriko Wrote:1. Major or minor in Japanese (SFCSU has an excellent program w/ in-Japanese lectures on topics aside from actual language acquisition)
2. Get a degree in a (not-yet-decided) field that is beneficial in conjunction with a JPN major/minor

Oh, don't just get a degree in Japanese. Seriously -- what kind of job or skill is that going to give you? Every now and then I read an ad along the following lines: "I have a degree in English literature and I can teach you English!"... Just how is knowing Shakespeare or 19th century poetry going to help a teacher get poor Kenta-kun or Hiroko-chan to speak English?

Your language skills open up possibilities, but you should aim to get a degree in something that's useful professionally.

People who make comments like that I think have never worked for any white collar company. The majority of people on the planet do not work in something directly related to their degree.

I don't know what to say, but congratulations on coming so far! I admire people who are following their dreams, and you are clearly and obviously one of them, so good luck!

Jarvik7 Wrote:People who make comments like that I think have never worked for any white collar company. The majority of people on the planet do not work in something directly related to their degree.

Sure you can find a job outside of your field, sure you can then spend another few years trying to catch up/make yourself legitimate in your new field/job, sure you can finish another degree that suits your new company better (or be treated like an inferior employee). But is that what you really want to do?
I've known a few people like that and believe me its not funny when you have to get a job after you graduate, while simultaneously working on getting another degree, just so you can practically start from scratch after a few years. Some even have to handle it while having a child, all is possible but its like taking 10years out of your lifespan, exhausting.
Also if the economy tanks and jobs become scarce, I'm sure it would be a holiday season for all "white collar" workers that can be replaced with practically anybody.

Life is a choice, you're allowed to make mistakes but generally if you could avoid them its best to do so.

You also forgot to mention that majority of people are poor, uneducated and most of the time pretty dumb. Is that something we should aspire to?

thurd Wrote:

Nuriko Wrote:Update: After some thinking, I think I've reached somewhat of a decision. I have decided that I want to pursue a career in Library Science by applying for the program at San Jose State University, as I always have liked the idea of being a librarian or least work in a library. But before that, I still plan to attend SFCSU for a Japanese major while doing their abroad program. Most Library Science programs require or recommend knowledge of a second language, which gives me a good excuse to go through with it (I definitely did not want to exclude Japanese from my college studies, so I'm glad for this).

If anyone could shed some light on whether knowledge of a second language would actually be used in a library setting, I'd be very grateful

I hate to be negative about it but in my opinion it looks like a poor career choice.

We're on the verge of digital e-book revolution, public libraries slowly fade into nonexistence (I remember how often I and my friends used to go but now its just easier to use the internet/kindle, not to mention libraries I went to are now gone), what will be left are University libraries but even that might slowly go digital when another round of cost cutting comes.
Basically you'd be working in a field that will face an increasing amount of venues closed, tons of people left unemployed and competing for shrinking amount of jobs left. All this is usually paid for by the government, that will just go digital to cut costs when tough times come.
To me it looks horribly bleak, no matter how much computer science they think they are inserting into the program, if a big player opens a digital library its over. You don't need infrastructure for it, you don't need all those employees to make it work and most certainly such big players won't need Library Science graduates to make it happen (just some IT guys and a few bean-counters to figure out the price).

I could of course be totally wrong about my predictions but seeing how digital distribution doesn't exactly help video/dvd rental shops to stay in business, I'd say you're at least taking a huge leap of faith.

I say do what Jarvik7 suggested, get something practical as support for your "soft skill" in Japanese. If only I had been that smart during my Uni and got proper language skills, I'd already be working in Japan for a few years, earning loads of cash along the way.

I live in San Jose and have seen one new library (a very nice one) go up in my area the past year. Libraries here are extremely popular. There are just so many (damn) people here in San Jose, and there's always those in need of library services. Also, libraries are a part of the digital revolution. Half of the libraries here are filled up with computers, and believe me, they are packed with people. I hate going to libraries, they are so crowded it's hard to find a parking space, much less a place to sit and study. I also heard (on the grape-vine) that the position of "librarian" here in California, pays in the six figures. Now, I don't think libraries are going anywhere in the next 30+ years, but it may be difficult to land one of these coveted librarian positions so, Nuriko, you should look into how difficult it will be to get a job. The librarian degree is very specific so it may be difficult to change careers with those credentials. Try visiting SJSU and asking the department head about the program and what kind of jobs are available if you graduate.

thurd Wrote:

Jarvik7 Wrote:People who make comments like that I think have never worked for any white collar company. The majority of people on the planet do not work in something directly related to their degree.

Sure you can find a job outside of your field, sure you can then spend another few years trying to catch up/make yourself legitimate in your new field/job, sure you can finish another degree that suits your new company better (or be treated like an inferior employee). But is that what you really want to do?

A lot of white collar graduate level jobs don't work like that (at least in England), you don't specifically use anything from your degree. You will be trained in the company for what you need for the job. People with good Law, Economics, PPE, etc degrees from good universities can get easily get into big companies.

Technical jobs will be more related to the degrees, but a large amount graduate jobs are general positions (consulting, management, finance) rather than technical positions. For examples see -> http://www.top100graduateemployers.com/employers/

Jarvik7 Wrote:People who make comments like that I think have never worked for any white collar company. The majority of people on the planet do not work in something directly related to their degree.

The majority of people don't go to university either. If you're going to bother, make it count. I've seen so many people make that mistake before that I thought it worthwhile warning the OP about it.

Finding a job and planning a career are two very different things.

Noriko, You can do whatever you want.

Librarian Science might not lead you to the highest paying job, but you can became an invaluable professional in any field you chose.

You have already proven that you are rigorous with your study and that's the main ingredient of any scholarly career.

Nuriko Wrote:After four years of Japanese self-study and being able to reach JLPT N1 level

congrats!

i think it's very rare we hear about someone's success here. =)

kainzero Wrote:

Nuriko Wrote:After four years of Japanese self-study and being able to reach JLPT N1 level

congrats!

i think it's very rare we hear about someone's success here. =)

Can't wait till I get to where he is, lucky I'm one of the very few(or at least I think I am) that has that passion to get far. I know mezbup also has the same passion for learning jp and he is a step ahead of me(think he's been studying for 2.5 years, I'm heading towards 2 years)

Thanks for all the replies everyone! I don't have much time to give anything but a short response such as this, but I appreciate every bit of advice and encouragement!

Just wanted to share my experience with finding a job and somehow meshing that with using Japanese.

I studied Business and majored in Marketing and took Japanese language electives on the side. After studying abroad in Japan last year, I decided I really wanted to get into the international business/international relations area because frankly I got fed up with marketing and all that. I was also determined to be able to make the most of my Japanese skills in whatever it was that I decided to do. On Monday I am starting a new job at a company that exports foodstuffs to Japan, which will involve analysis of the trade volumes etc etc, processing paperwork, and corresponding with the head office in Tokyo using Japanese. I'm a bit nervous because I have never used my Japanese in a business context, but in the interview we chatted in Japanese for a while, so they must've thought I would be ok. I'm excited to think of the future possibilities that this job will open up for me.

So basically what I want to say is if there is something you really want to do, stick at it and don't let the hurdles stop you along the way. Nobody has the right to tell you what you can and can't do. But do make sure that at the end of all your hard work, the skills you have gained will make you more employable otherwise it will have just been a waste of your time and money (but I'm pretty sure you already know that )