JimmySeal Wrote:No, because as soon as we demonstrate it to them...

Exactly, however if we fail to demonstrate it they won't just take our word for it either. Like I said before, you don't need to discard / reject anything. Simply put it in the archive for unsupported claims.

@JimmySeal

So you're saying it would be totally a matter of 'faith' for some super advanced alien species capable of intergalactic travel to not believe in one (out of thousands) of Earthling Gods just because a mere 2 billion backwater earthlings believe (s)he exists despite not a speck of evidence...?

I wonder what the extraterrestrials would 'think' when they become aware of our alien invasion films in which we always defeat them in the end?

haha I don't know but they'd probably at least install some proper virus protection on their mothership's computer or at least switch to Apple. (I trust you've seen Independence Day)

Of course, but David used a PowerBook to put in the virus so how would this... wait, I just remembered none of this makes any sense.

Khatz became fluent in 18 months on the cross for your sins. You will all burn in a hell of not comprehending DragonBallZ in Cantonese for your non-belief!

-ahem-
Am I the only one who saw Bodhi's post as a timely reference to another holy war that is waging?

bucaran Wrote:

bodhisamaya Wrote:How would one define someone who confidently proclaims there are no gods?

I don't know, but certainly not atheist.

Actually, it's the dictionary definition of atheist. That's what I based my original post on, because that's what I've always associated atheism with. I'd say there's a notable distinction between an absence of belief and holding a belief that something doesn't exist, but it seems that both ideas are encompassed by the word atheist. Like twinzen already said, discussions about this become difficult because of the ambiguous terminology.

six8ten Wrote:

bucaran Wrote:

bodhisamaya Wrote:How would one define someone who confidently proclaims there are no gods?

I don't know, but certainly not atheist.

Perhaps antitheist would be a better fit for that.

Or even "contheist", but then we would be inventing meaning for words.

What about someone who is not an atheist but is also not a theist? :O

Javizy Wrote:I'd say there's a notable distinction between an absence of belief and holding a belief that something doesn't exist...

We can definitely agree on that. Now, what more reliable than Wikipedia to define it:

Quote:Atheism is, in a broad sense, the rejection of belief in the existence of deities. In a narrower sense, atheism is specifically the position that there are no deities. Most inclusively, atheism is simply the absence of belief that any deities exist.

Let me add that, a position that there are no deities it's simply the default state, you live with the assumption that there is no God but you don't specifically claim there isn't one - why bother?

Also from Wikipedia:

Quote:In practical or pragmatic atheism, also known as apatheism, individuals live as if there are no gods and explain natural phenomena without resorting to the divine. The existence of gods is not rejected, but may be designated unnecessary or useless; gods neither provide purpose to life, nor influence everyday life, according to this view.

mentat_kgs Wrote:-> If you are talking about a god that answer to prayers and heals sickness, it is easy to prove if it exists or not: Go to an hospital, find someone sick, pray and wait.
[...]
There is a huge amount of evidence that tells that a god that answers prayers and heals the sick doesn't exist. That's why Atheist believe there is no such god.

Here in Brazil, as you may know, it's very common to find people who use medical errors as a proof that God exists: they find themselves, or someone closer to them, with a terminal disease; every doctor they go to say they have no chances of healing or surviving for long; then they pray to God and end up healing themselves, surviving and thriving, and that's why God exists! (Doesn't matter how many others have done the same but died, that it only works for diseases that can be healead [that is, no "growing up legs and arms" for those who had them amputated, for example], or the fact that doctors are always making mistakes.)

zachandhobbes Wrote:So because I'm NOT a stamp collector, should you label me as a NON Stamp collector?

That must mean I'm also a NON Guitarist.

But you are — as you are also a non-cat, a non-opposite-sex-person, and non-non-participant-in-the-forum!

bucaran Wrote:

Quote:In a narrower sense, atheism is specifically the position that there are no deities.

Let me add that, a position that there are no deities it's simply the default state, you live with the assumption that there is no God but you don't specifically claim there isn't one - why bother?

Dude, I don't know how it can be spelled out any plainer than this. Holding a position that there are no deities is specifically claiming that there isn't one.

Holding a position that there are no deities is not the same as positively believing in the nonexistence of God/s, however if I am ultimately wrong about this seemingly semantic argument, then I guess I am a different kind of atheist.

bucaran Wrote:Let me add that, a position that there are no deities it's simply the default state, you live with the assumption that there is no God but you don't specifically claim there isn't one - why bother?

Why you would bother is your choice, but there are many people that do who can be classified as atheists. If you read the Definitions and distinctions section, you'll see the distinction referred to as positive and negative atheism. Like you said, it's more of a semantic issue, but it's probably important to be more specific if you want to claim being an atheist doesn't require any belief or faith.

bucaran Wrote:Also from Wikipedia:

Quote:In practical or pragmatic atheism, also known as apatheism, individuals live as if there are no gods and explain natural phenomena without resorting to the divine. The existence of gods is not rejected, but may be designated unnecessary or useless; gods neither provide purpose to life, nor influence everyday life, according to this view.

That sounds a lot like me.

Jarvik7 Wrote:Khatz became fluent in 18 months on the cross for your sins. You will all burn in a hell of not comprehending DragonBallZ in Cantonese for your non-belief!

Only those within the religion make jokes or the spirit of the exercise is lost.