Daichi Wrote:I'd also suggest trying to watch things with Japanese subtitles, let your reading skills pickup where your listening lacks for now.

That's what i tried last night and understood a couple of words only because of the kanji.
i guess i have to be patient and let my listening skills develop overtime.

three22geo Wrote:I think what NukeMarine said about learning japanese to the advanced level in only one year is going to my head, i have to stop comparing myself to other people.
oh man i can't believe how right you guys are, especially you CRANKS now i feel stupid, and it gave me a good laugh thanks!!. But now i'm going to work on what you guys suggested thanks everyone!!!! it's a relief i don't have kill myself with decks to understand native japanese.(which now i think is a really stupid thought).

Pretty sure I didn't write that, unless it's talking about anecdotal statements by others on this board (or Khatz). I usually talk about the number of hours you put into everything, both as passive input and active study/review. Once you compare people in those terms, it seems those with similar hours of active study are at similar levels of ability.

If it helps, think of it like this: you can learn 15 to 20 kanji an hour, followed by 5 to 10 grammar points an hour, followed by 20 to 30 words an hour, followed by 15 to 20 sentences an hour. It's just a matter of investing your hours in an efficient way.

The sentences I stress because I found out creating my own comprehensible input (ala subs2srs and dramanote) really supercharged the input comprehension. That little nugget of information unfortunately came two years after I started RTK.

Anyway, keep it up and don't worry about what you can cram into days or months.

Oh sorry Nukemarine i think i misunderstood you. Well the point was i wanted to do what you did but couldn't.

three22geo Wrote:

dizmox Wrote:Have you studied grammar or studied any beginners listening material?

I haven't studied any grammar at all

That's not good. Why not?

Before I started KO2001 I had at least Genki 1 and referred to Tae Kim often...

howtwosavealif3 Wrote:stop doing those boring decks that are sucking the life out of you.
go have FUN IN JAPANESE. FUN IMMERSION.

I disagree.
Decks have helped immensely when I go have FUN IN JAPANESE.
And taking sentences from "fun" things like songs/movies/dramas is still just as difficult as a vocab deck from Core/KO2001.

There's plenty of people who do nothing but have fun in Japanese. They're called otaku, and their "Japanese" is nothing special.

I tried Tae Kim once but was too lazy to continue, i guess i have to try it again that's what a lot of people recommend.

howtwosavealif3 Wrote:stop doing those boring decks that are sucking the life out of you. go have FUN IN JAPANESE. FUN IMMERSION. music/tv shows/anything like seroiusly.

No pain, no gain, man! I can say that I tried the ajatt thing for several times and to be honest it bores the hell out of me. I had Japanese TV running all the time for a month or so and I was always annoyed by these voices, shouting and crying something I didn't understand. That's the point; that stuff gets boring and distracts you from your real progress in a SRS programm like Anki, because it's not *yet* effective for you. (Probably I would get the hang of what they said in TV if I skipped the script, though.) On the other hand I do think that Ajatt's method can turn out to be very boosting once you have a solid basis of Japanese. That means one should always try doing it again. But I made the experience that this trying is frustrating and distracting. Decide on your own..

You need to get used to hearing the words/phrases and patterns you're learning if you ever want to comprehend spoken japanese. Plenty of listening practice is also important right from the outset if you ever want to get half decent pronunciation. Having said that, the usefulness of audio-immersion is pretty much proportional to the amount of Japanese you already know. If you don't know enough words to do anything other than recognise the few words you know, ie you don't have enough to gain any understanding of what you're listening to, then you really ought to focus on activities that will increase your knowledge. So as a beginner you're better off focusing on reading with a dictionary/translation or listening to things you've either already read or are otherwise comprehensible for other reasons, such as beginner content or audio courses like Pimsleur.

Amusingly enough, grammar is just a reference. Tae Kim and co. are just for those times when you don't get something. Dip when you need, but never without a reason - beyond the stuff below N3-N5 there isn't much to gain from scatter fire grammar study.

I had the same problem as the OP, and as tori-kun.

I'm starting to think that SRSing KORE or KO2001 are problematic, as they tend to reinforce a Japanese > English connection. To understand Japanese in real time, you need to be able to decode Japanese > Concept, which is a totally different skill.

In Japanese classes, Japanese > Concept and the other way is created in your brain by your teacher forcing you to speak, using the new vocab words you have learn that week. For a self-studier, with little speaking practise and a current inability to learn, it's a lot more tough.

Subs2SRS might be the way, as you can see what's happening, and nukemarine found good results. But I havent tried it enough to come to a proper conclusion..

There's absolutely nothing wrong with learning via Japanese>English. If you can't understand Japanese audio, it most likely means you haven't had enough practice or are listening to content above your level and don't have the vocabulary. It doesn't matter if the first bunch of times you hear a word you translate it into english in your head. You'll stop doing it soon enough. Japanese->English verses Japanese->meaning is an irrelevant debate, because English is meaning. The key to understanding Japanese audio really is in knowing enough of the vocabulary being used and having sufficiently trained your grammar intuition (ie. certain grammar processing pathways in your brain are established and well trodden)

aphasiac Wrote:I had the same problem as the OP, and as tori-kun.

I'm starting to think that SRSing KORE or KO2001 are problematic, as they tend to reinforce a Japanese > English connection. To understand Japanese in real time, you need to be able to decode Japanese > Concept, which is a totally different skill.

Who's saying you have to go Japanese > English with Core? I thought most of us were doing Kanji > Kani anyway? I set the English translation not to display unless highlighted...

Yeah I don't look at the english sentences in core either but i do go from kana to kanji. (only 1000 done so far). I don't find kana-> kanji as hard for core as it was for KO2001. KO2001 i go from kanji -> kana.

Personally for me (aphasiac) Subs2SRS seems to be a really good method. I pick movies I like and have proper subtitles in japanese and english for and that's it. Your dorama recommendation is really doing a good job by the way!
If you feel like me getting annoyed by deck-audio (ko2001/corexk) and ultra-fast talking newsmen/women, then just start srsing your favourite show. Seriously, one should try it. I'm about 1500 cards and now I'm srsing Byousoku (anime): the voice is very clear and not interrupted by background noises and speaks clearly and not ultra-fast. I can understand quite everything with japanese subtitles ;P

All of this recommendations are more than i need thanks everyone!!
Now i'm going to work on my drama deck i made.

Japanese is like a sexy girlfriend or boyfriend who has ADD you have to be interesting (smart=studying) to stay in love.

That analogy doesn't make any sense. Japanese doesn't have ADD the student does. So Japanese better gets it's act together if it wants me to keep coming over late at night for some "studying".

nadiatims Wrote:There's absolutely nothing wrong with learning via Japanese>English. If you can't understand Japanese audio, it most likely means you haven't had enough practice or are listening to content above your level and don't have the vocabulary. It doesn't matter if the first bunch of times you hear a word you translate it into english in your head. You'll stop doing it soon enough. Japanese->English verses Japanese->meaning is an irrelevant debate, because English is meaning. The key to understanding Japanese audio really is in knowing enough of the vocabulary being used and having sufficiently trained your grammar intuition (ie. certain grammar processing pathways in your brain are established and well trodden)

I'm with you in relation to this. English on your cards is only leverage for understanding more. I have some English, if not a translation, on 60% of my cards and I, honestly, find it pretty powerful, to say the least. English allows me to understand what I could not normally do so because it shows me the connections I need to put the whole sentence or series of sentences together in a way that I understand. "Meaning is meaning, regardless of language." This is important to remember.

What I've learned so far is: if your really want to improve, work on things in a daily fashion. Because if you keep it up, you'll improve at huge leaps.