CarolinaCG Wrote:Please honest opinions
I hate my voice, does it sound like a normal voice to you?

http://chirb.it/H9EGbh　(あゆの真似)

http://chirb.it/FM5ts1 (自己紹介)

Sounds pretty similar to a native to me(to my untrained ear). Just the parts when you stumble, when I compare it to how Japanese correct themselves and how you correct yourself, it's similar but not quite there. Just one more thing, when you said 違う(i think?) near the start, it sounded a off. Otherwise, quite well done. Did you do that on the spot?

I realised people from Europe seem to have a easier time sounding more Japanese. I guess European languages sounds are closer to Japanese than English.

Yes, I said chigau, and yes, it sounded off indeed. Yes, since I didn't know what else to say I made a little self presentation, on the spot.

Thank you so much!

Portuguese's (from Portugal) sounds are similiar so japanese sounds. About other european languages I don't know, maybe italian too has sounds similiar to japanese. Spanish too, I guess.

Wow.. I know it's off-topic, but I like this voice even more than IceCreams XD If I didn't know I would say you listened to a lot of Tokyo Local podcasts and others...

Why do you like our voices? just out of curiosity

And yes, as you know I listened a lot (and still do) to tokyo local. Yukorin, Riepon and Nakamura san are my roommates when I live in Braga (where I study), but now I'm on vacations and my roomate became hamasaki ayumi (ayu ready) mostly, lol.

I think your voice sounds fine

CarolinaCG Wrote:Why do you like our voices? just out of curiosity

It makes me nervous about posting...What if no one likes my voice!

CarolinaCG Wrote:Why do you like our voices? just out of curiosity

Seemingly guys work different. I'm extremely curious/sensitive about sounds and voices, rather than perhaps about outer appearance, so if I hear a voice and that fits into a "pattern" in my head, I can say it sounds 'good', or even 'better' and so on I know I'm a geek.
And yes, it seems like people from Europe have less difficulties pronouncing some sounds in Japanese, CarolinaCG. I'm curious why.. I wonder how Russians do pronounce the 'r' sound in Japanese.

Edit: I found IceCream's recording sounded slightly like she was smoking a lot/drinking whisky lol Or did you just whisper?

Here's my first question at least. Probably won't do number two tonight, as my friend is due to arrive back at any minute.
Q:自分たちの家の家族構成について話し合いましょう。
A: http://chirb.it/MMI31z

I decided not to be obsessive over not being sloppy.

um, yeah. deleted because i was in some kind of weird mood yesterday. i don't usually get that annoyed about stuff like that...?! weird. anyway... sorry!!

(Edited)

I did already send a comment to your chirbit page... but just for the record:

Carolina, I think your Japanese is absolutely outstanding, and I think there are many, many natives who would agree with me. You have a lot to be proud of. I can tell you've studied hard and by listening to this, I know it has paid off greatly. To me, your voice naturally "becomes" Japanese as soon as you start talking, and it stays that way right to the very end. I don't think I've ever heard a non-native sound as native-like as you. It sounds like you use all those little interjections just right. "Maa," "nanka," "kou, "a!," "sono..."
Ahhh, if only I could have a command of the Japanese language as well as you do!

Oh yeah, I did notice something that might have been "wrong"... I think you were saying "例文” ← but it sounded like れぼん/れぶん at first. That was the only second of confusion for me. Also, I think at one point you said 勉強します, while most Japanese people seem to usually say 勉強しています in that particular context. I could very well be wrong, however ^^

Overall, I'd say you did beyond wonderfully There's also the factor that your first language has similar sounds to the Japanese language, but I think it's more than just that. You're a very eager student of Japanese, and it shows.

And your voice is also very pleasant to listen to. It's the kind of voice you'd hear on a radio show, in my opinion.

Tzadeck - wow, really good job! Your Japanese flows very well and much of your pronunciation sounds pretty good to me - just going by what I've been used to hearing said by natives. For the most part, you sound pretty natural to me, but I did come across some words where the accent belongs on a different mora, or where the "っ" in a word needs to have more emphasis placed on it. For example, 結婚 and 引っ越し. I was actually impressed with how quickly you were able to correct yourself when you started to say something slightly different (example: changing "ぼく" to "今はぼく...")
I think that quick adjustment is important - it's always the best to get out what you originally intended to say instead of just settling with what you started out with. I often make the mistake of settling for what I started out with, and I just end up with a horribly messed up sentence.

Anyway, I think you did a really good job

I'm inspired to try now. But my lack of vocab means I can't do it on the spot and if I write it before, I'll be looking up every second word. More or less, I'd rather have feedback on my pronunciation. Anyone have a script for me to read?

Haha, I don't know how I managed to make such a voice, but
http://chirb.it/DDdzG8

Ok here I am too
http://chirb.it/9s4pda

Actually, can we post our writings here, too? I do like to write in Japanese, so here an attempt of giving an explanation of what the movie 告白 is about (poorly written, he).

今日はつまらなかったし、天気がよくないし、日本の映画を見たい気持ちになった。「告白」と言う映画を選んだ。

※　映画の粗筋
ある中学校の先生が理由不明で娘の消息を失う。警察は森口先生の娘が学校のプールの水面に浮いているのを見つける。警察は死亡原因が不明で、どうやら事故のようなので調査をするつもりではありません。森口先生の精神的な状態が悪化していきます。そして、精神的なストレスが増えていきます。事故なんかじゃないと思うので、復讐したい。先生は犯罪だと思います。容疑者が森口先生のクラスの一員だと疑います・・・　とにかく、先生の仕事を辞めたいんですので、事件を究明するだけではなく容疑者にも悲しみと精神的なショックも与えたい。
森口先生は中学校に在学しているクラス員の容疑者の飲む牛乳にＨＩＶウイルスを含んだ血液を注射しています。クラスは全員が森口先生のＨＩＶで亡くなった主人の書いた本を茶化したから、この復讐の仕方を選んだ。（映画のエンディングにはＨＩＶのせいだけでなく、癌もあってご主人の死を促進をしたんです。）

長島の映画は復讐や恨みや憎みという気持ちが人間に何でもさせるということを観客に見せています。圧力と真剣を強調していますから、観客には直接的に悲惨な表現を見せています。復讐は決して正しくなくて、人々を悪循環に嵌らせるのが印象しています。この映画は人間の精神が酷い深淵だかもしれないのをすごく見せています。言うまでもないことですが、こんな人、こんな人殺しと狂者がこのリアルな世界にもいます。長島さんがこんなことも注意したいです。

UAH! Mistakes xp

jettyke Wrote:Haha, I don't know how I managed to make such a voice, but
http://chirb.it/DDdzG8

I'd say that's a pretty good representation of the "オレさまタイプ” - well done, haha!

Shakunatz Wrote:Ok here I am too :tongue:
http://chirb.it/9s4pda

I was taken aback as how much the tone of your voice sounds like a typical young Japanese man. It might seem strange, but just from listening to Japanese podcasts and things like that, I hear your sort of voice a lot. So to me, you automatically sound very native-like aside from the misplacement of "映画"'s mora. It seems to have the mora placed on え instead of having zero pitch accent. Overall, I can't believe how native-like you sound. Especially at そうですか.

Check the pronunciation for 映画 here: http://www.csse.monash.edu.au/~jwb/cgi-b...dic.cgi?1E
And make sure you have audio files enabled in the preferences so you can hear it.

Tori-kun Wrote:Actually, can we post our writings here, too? I do like to write in Japanese, so here an attempt of giving an explanation of what the movie 告白 is about (poorly written, he).

Torikun, that's definitely some upper level writing - you have a wide vocabulary, and you seem to be able to phrase complicated things with ease. I can't give you feedback that's too detailed, though, because writing's always kind of difficult for me to analyze (especially with knowing whether some grammar points are correct or not).

Have you tried lang-8 before? If you submit your writings there, you will get the best feedback ever.

Nuriko Wrote:Torikun, that's definitely some upper level writing - you have a wide vocabulary, and you seem to be able to phrase complicated things with ease. I can't give you feedback that's too detailed, though, because writing's always kind of difficult for me to analyze (especially with knowing whether some grammar points are correct or not).

Have you tried lang-8 before? If you submit your writings there, you will get the best feedback ever.

Wow, really? I dunno, but lately since I listen to my core6k cards also, I can get the vocabulary I want to use in my writing 'per sound'. It's difficult to explain, you see.. I've first watched the film and read the wikipedia article (still a bit too difficult) with Rikai-san and then just dared writing it.
My main point or main question would be, if you understood what I wrote, despite of knowing if the right grammar was used.

I am at lang-8 and posted this text in their. I got only "blue" corrections, but a lot of them. Though, it seems like the ones correcting it understood everything perfectly fine, but would do the 'last adjustments' in order to make it sound more native.

If I'm alone at home I will try reading my own writing out - see how good it will turn out to be xP

Nuriko Wrote:Tzadeck - wow, really good job! Your Japanese flows very well and much of your pronunciation sounds pretty good to me - just going by what I've been used to hearing said by natives. For the most part, you sound pretty natural to me, but I did come across some words where the accent belongs on a different mora, or where the "っ" in a word needs to have more emphasis placed on it. For example, 結婚 and 引っ越し.

Thanks Nuriko! Yeah, pointing out the っ thing is good, I really need to work on that. My pronunciation has been getting sloppier and sloppier over the years, to be honest, haha. My college Japanese class was really strict about it, so I was on the ball back then, but now I don't pay much attention and it's caused me to get worse.

Here's my answer to the second question.

http://chirb.it/a9vpIF

The question was:
家族のあり方は、職業、収入、宗教、結婚年齢、教育水準、人口密度など、さまざまな要因によって規定されます。自分の故郷では、どのような家族構成が一般的でしょうか。また、その構成に影響を与えているものは何でしょうか。

I keep using English hesitation noises a bit, haha. I also, for some reason, didn't de-voice the last mora in a lot of my sentences (for example, pronouncing the す in と思います very fully), which I never actually do in real conversation. An office lady where I work does it constantly, and maybe it's gotten into my head.

I also didn't really answer the harder part of the question... maybe I'll record it again sometime, haha.

Tzadeck - I'm so jealous of how you can just keep talking and talking in Japanese like it's nothing! Of course, living in Japan has helped you to get this far, but I think there's definitely more to it than just that. Your enthusiasm for the language really comes out as you're speaking. As I've said before, your speaking flows so well and you seem to have a great command of how to say what you want to say. I could understand 100% of what you said, which shows me that you definitely have no problem conveying what you need to.

However, I think it would really be worthwhile for you keep track of the pronunciation of individual words, because if you master the "mora" system, you may easily sound just like a native. If you'd like to do that, here's what I'd suggest:

Utilizing Jim Breen's dictionary with audio files equipped. http://www.csse.monash.edu.au/~jwb/cgi-b...dic.cgi?1C
I'm not sure if you still have to manually enable audio files, but if you don't see play buttons next to words when you look them up, you may be able to find an option that you can change in the customization section. For some reason I can't find it, though...

Keeping track of the pronunciation of each word seems like a pretty big chore, but I was able to do this easily with Anki (though I still make mistakes), by either including the audio file in the card (if hearing the file seemed significantly more helpful) or just simply highlighting with color when I couldn't be bothered to grab the audio files, like this: http://oi52.tinypic.com/6dwnlv.jpg
Of course, there are certain words that I feel require an audio file. Sometimes it's difficult to tell where exactly the mora is - so in those cases, I need the file.

I continue to do this now, as "語学の学習には終着点はないですね" (I quote my lang-8 friend on this)

Here are some of the words that I believe you may have said with the accent placed on a different mora: kodomo, otona, ippanteki, sofubo, sonnani
I think the mora should be as so: koDOmo, oTOna, iPPanteki, soFUbo, soNNani ← but don't take my word for it, check Jim Breen's native audio files too

Also, as you have mentioned, pronouncing "su" when using です・ます調　is more typical of girls, and possibly even homosexuals...? Sometimes I think this kind of thing can be a pretty big hurdle for male learners of Japanese. You can't avoid hearing females speaking in their female-like ways, and it's easy to automatically reproduce such female-like ways. However, I, too, accidentally use some words that are more expected to be heard from males, including things like 腹（はら）instead of お腹（おなか）, 金 instead of お金. I've also been taught that harsh words like 不細工 aren't good for girls to say. いろいろあるんですね D:

I'd better stop right here, it's getting long @_@

Haha, yeah, I'm aware that girls don't devoice more often than guys. I don't usually speak that way, I just did here, so I'm not that worried about that. Actually, I lean towards using です・ます form only in very polite situations, which is pretty guyish.

I live in Kyoto, which has to be at least kind of responsible for the ways I accent words. I've given up really thinking about it, since a lot of time the way they are accidented in Kansai-ben is different from standard Japanese, and if I concentrate on doing it one way or the other I just get all messed up. Learning materials are generally in standard Japanese, but that's not what I hear everyday, so I can't really practice one way or the other. So I end up just not concentrating on it at all--and I end up pronouncing a lot of words incorrectly in both standard and Kansai-ben Japanese. Not really sure how to solve this problem, but if I had a choice of which of the two to use I would go with the Kansai pitch accent.

Not that I'm brushing aside your comment, haha. I know I need to improve.

I finally got started on this thing, made a recording, and boy is it harder than I thought. Please have a listen and let me know if I was at least understandable, and possibly what I could do to get better:

家族構成 Question 1: http://chirb.it/bn407e

There's one pretty big mistake I'm aware of... which was the word 手伝う coming out as 手伝える. And this obviously doesn't make sense in that sentence.

I have taken a conversation class before, in which I was allowed to prepare for the conversation topics by writing outlines, but this time I'm refraining from doing so. Because I was able to do this in my conversation class, I never truly developed that ability to easily and quickly say what I want, the way I want to. So through this practice, I hope to gain that ability.

Most of you here are way more experienced with having conversations than I am, so please let me know what I can improve on

I think your accent is really good!

Things that I think are mistakes and the rough time at which they are:
00:28 普通でない should be 普通ではない
01:07 世話 sounded a bit like せいわ but that might just be a sound quality thing
02:23 しつぜんてき？ Is it meant to be 自然的? Have I misheard it?

I think it's hard to practise conversation like this by yourself, especially speaking for a few minutes, because you would usually be guided by your converation partner's questions. There weren't any big pauses though as you thought of something to say so thumbs up

pudding cat Wrote:I think your accent is really good!

Things that I think are mistakes and the rough time at which they are:
00:28 普通でない should be 普通ではない
01:07 世話 sounded a bit like せいわ but that might just be a sound quality thing
02:23 しつぜんてき？ Is it meant to be 自然的? Have I misheard it?

I think it's hard to practise conversation like this by yourself, especially speaking for a few minutes, because you would usually be guided by your converation partner's questions. There weren't any big pauses though as you thought of something to say so thumbs up

Oh thanks so much, pudding cat! It's really helpful to have things pointed out like this, and I'm really happy to hear positive feedback.

As for 普通でない／普通ではない - I often hear something like "[adjective]でない” without "は” (kind of like how it's use in the expression 気が気でない). But for this situation, I wonder if ではない would be better.

As for　世話　- that's very good to know. I think I've always made this mistake but just barely realized in the back of my head that I'm supposed to be saying せわ。I'll try to be more conscience of this now that you've mentioned it.

しつぜんてき was 必然的. I often use the 東京方言　way of saying "hi" like "shi," and I may be going overboard with it sometimes.

Again, thanks so much!