So this is the first spoken foreign language I've learned (for real). I studied latin through high school and for 3 semesters in college, but as you might imagine a dead language is less than useful for speaking skills.

I'm going to start watching more japanese TV shows (I just finished Death Note...before that I hadn't really watched much anime). So hopefully this will start exposing me to a lot more conversational japanese in addition to adding listening ability.

I'm also shifting to sentence-based studying. So less out-of-context vocabulary and grammar rules. Was it the AJATT guy who said that learning to speak a language from grammar rules is like learning to drive a car by studying quantum mechanics?

And then there is the problem of actually speaking to people...

one problem...I need to be less shy about speaking Japanese to people.

And I have the problem of thinking of what I want to say...usually way too late. Sorta like thinking of a snappy comeback 5 minutes after it would've been useful.

I often find myself generally following other peoples Japanese, but not being able to formulate my end of the exchange.

I guess I need to practice more output. But I think I also need to get a lot more input. I am often hesitant because I wonder "how would a Japanese person actually say this? " (since of course, there is textbook japanese and there is real japanese...and nary the two shall meet!)

So anyways...sorry for long rambling post. Any advice, tips, or motivational stories from personal experience are welcome.

Extensive reading is the thing I trumpet to everyone as far as language learning goes. A lot of people can't get past the preconception that reading won't help your listening or speaking, but they couldn't be any more incorrect.

Through reading you familiarize yourself with vocabulary and sentence structures so you can make sense of aural input when the time comes. It also ingrains them in your memory so that they'll be there when you need to express yourself.

It is true that no amount of reading can make you go from a mute to a proficient orator, but it does equip you with the right tools to begin speaking naturally with some bit of practice.

For this purpose, I think novels are the way to go. The narrative allows you to see how Japanese people explain and describe things, while the dialogue shows how they converse.

I think writing will help you a lot too. Sending emails, chatting on messenger, sending mails from your keitai etc. are all part of this and the good thing about them is that you don't have to think so fast. It gives you a bit of time to formulate what you want to say.

Why don't we start some threads in Japanese? That will be really good practice. Or do you think we could continue this thread in Japanese? I'm up for it.

I know you are probably better than the level it is intended for and not everyone likes it, but I picked up some good stuff from pimsluer...

also, record yourself and listen back to it. its hard to listen to yourself so unlike a native but...

Finding a conversation partner can also be really helpful. It's good for building confidence, since presumably you are giving your partner English practice as well. You can talk about anything you want to practice, and the context tends to force you bit by bit out of your conversational comfort zone.

wrightak Wrote:Why don't we start some threads in Japanese? That will be really good practice.

There are plenty of other boards that are great for this, but I think it's a good idea anyway!

JimmySeal Wrote:For this purpose, I think novels are the way to go. The narrative allows you to see how Japanese people explain and describe things, while the dialogue shows how they converse.

Can you recommend some fairly easy novels or authors? Also, what's your opinion of reading novels in translation, i.e. reading familiar novels in Japanese translation?

Two words: gaijin bar!

It's amazing how much a beer or two can improve your Japanese.

certainly does. pop down the hub with me and James A for some boozed up speaking practice sessions

shaydwyrm Wrote:Finding a conversation partner can also be really helpful. It's good for building confidence, since presumably you are giving your partner English practice as well.

Why oh why do people always insist on mixing two so different undertakings as Japanese conversational practice and the practice of English? Why is there any need to trade? Why not just find someone who will speak Japanese to you because they want to SPEAK to you, not because they want your English?!..

shaydwyrm Wrote:

JimmySeal Wrote:For this purpose, I think novels are the way to go. The narrative allows you to see how Japanese people explain and describe things, while the dialogue shows how they converse.

Can you recommend some fairly easy novels or authors? Also, what's your opinion of reading novels in translation, i.e. reading familiar novels in Japanese translation?

Generally, I'm against reading translations because I think a good author can write more naturally than a translator trying to fit English into Japanese, but it is a good way to get your "sea legs" before you dive into real Japanese stuff.

I read 4 volumes of "A Series of Unfortunate Events" in Japanese before going onto adult-level books. They were really well done. I've heard good things about Harry Potter too. It's a bit more difficult, but as long as you don't get hung up on words you don't know it should be doable.

The first real Japanese book I read was "世界の中心で愛をさけぶ" by Katayama　Kyouichi　（片山恭一). The kanji was challenging but the prose wasn't too hard as it's intended for young adults. After reading that I was pretty much ready to take on anything.

My advice: Learning Japanese is like eating. Don`t eat the same "food" every day, or you`ll get bored stiff before you know it. Therefore don`t solely focus on only one thing like reading books for instance. A mix works best: watching a little Japanese tv, reading some pages of a Japanese novel, listening to and singing Japanese songs (karaoke!!), talking to Japanese friends, chatting in Japanese online, playing Japanese video games, etc. etc.

A mix of things works so well because you see the same words appearing in different contexts. That new word you read in a novel the other day might for instance reappear in a song you hear. The very moment you come across that same word in a different contexts it really starts to stick with you. Give it a try some time.

Serge Wrote:

shaydwyrm Wrote:Finding a conversation partner can also be really helpful. It's good for building confidence, since presumably you are giving your partner English practice as well.

Why oh why do people always insist on mixing two so different undertakings as Japanese conversational practice and the practice of English? Why is there any need to trade? Why not just find someone who will speak Japanese to you because they want to SPEAK to you, not because they want your English?!..

It's probably not easy for everyone to find a Japanese person, depending on where they lived, let alone one that wouldn't mind conversing with you. The few Japanese people I know here are busy as hell, and I feel bad enough asking them for time to help me with some grammar/text problems (which they always make time for).

Essay writing will definitely improve your skills in language learning and demand yourself to do it.

I think that if I were to get onto speaking Japanese, I would want to write my conversation on paper with someone and tell the other person to write what they want to say in Japanese. By reading what the other person writes, you are also reinforcing the grammar of the language and also, you can see how fast your response will be. Obvisously, I believe that there is nothing wrong with that since it's like passing notes around in class.

I've read the Zenon Edtion Piano books, which have prefaces written in both English and Japanese, and find that the translations from Japanese is interpretive rather than literal. When I read the Japanese and try to translate it into English, I get a completely different result from the English interpretation of the Japanese text because of the sentence structures of two languages are completely different.

Is writing an essay in Japanese far more different than an English one? My English essay writing is average, but I have difficulty translating it into Japanese. I assume that most people here would do that.