Hello,

I have studied Japanese for a few years now. I have a fairly decent vocabulary and grasp of grammar. If I am speaking, or watching native media, or reading in hiragana/katakana, then I generally have no problem.

However, my weakest point is reading and writing. I stopped taking formal classes a couple years ago. My vocabulary and grammar have improved since, but I have never learnt the kanji, even for the most basic of basic words (e.g. 考える、使う、食べる、勉強).

In an attempt to fix this, I attempted the Core 2000/6000 using Anki (using Nukemarine's sorted deck) - but I have found it really just draining. The sentences are far incredibly basic. I know all the words. It is boring.

I have also attempted to do RTK1, and have made it up to about ~650 frames so far. That isn't as bad as it does help me with stroke order. But it has not improved my reading one bit after several months (and it is not designed to).

Studying the Core 2000/6000's basic sentences feels like a waste considering I already know the meaning of a huge majority of the sentences and words. Are there any alternative study methods to learn the kanji quickly for words I already know?

So ... you're looking for a way to learn the kanji for words you already know without using those words (because that's boring)??

[I had edited my post to add some suggestions, but it appears they've already been mentioned by others.]

kurotoshiro3 Wrote:Studying the Core 2000/6000's basic sentences feels like a waste considering I already know the meaning of a huge majority of the sentences and words.

Already knowing the meanings is a good thing, it will make it all much easier and faster, because you're only trying to remember one thing per card ('reading of this word') rather than two ('reading' and 'meaning'). Fiddle the card model to put just the word (no furigana) on the front of the card, and everything else on the back, and then most of the time you can ignore the sentence anyway.

I think that ploughing through a big pile of cards in Anki is inherently kind of dull, that's just the way it is. The tradeoff is that a little concentrated dullness is faster and lets you move on to actually reading things without having to look up every single kanji you hit.

No suggestions on the "how to write" side, I haven't worked that one out myself.

You're at the level where you don't need / want the extraneous features of Core2000/6000, you simply want to be able to read Japanese. Once I reached that point I just made a pure vocab deck. Words I encounter in the wild get entered in so it's 100% relevant stuff and the format is word in kanji on the front and then hiragana + eng def meaning on the back.

Added 10,000 words last year and now my Japanese is sweet as.

Why not do RTK with Japanese keywords?

The English keywords are more or less meant as crutches, to give you a solid way to remember the kanji even if you don't yet know any Japanese. While this is a huge benefit in terms of being able to learn just one thing at a time, also known as i+1 or divide-and-conquer, there is no real point in holding on to these once you start to associate kanji to Japanese concepts instead.

On the contrary, if you already do know quite a bit of Japanese, you might well find it easier and more beneficial to start with Japanese keywords right off the bat. You say RTK doesn't help you read, so why not just incorporate the readings? To accomplish this, once you hit a new kanji, just replace the keyword with a Japanese one - already knowing it would be helpful - in kana, or an on/kun reading of your choice. There are also a few premade lists floating about; for example wrightak's. You could try searching the forum, as well.

mezbup Wrote:You're at the level where you don't need / want the extraneous features of Core2000/6000, you simply want to be able to read Japanese. Once I reached that point I just made a pure vocab deck. Words I encounter in the wild get entered in so it's 100% relevant stuff and the format is word in kanji on the front and then hiragana + eng def meaning on the back.

Vocab decks are nice; wouldn't help alot with writing, however.

Manga

mezbup Wrote:You're at the level where you don't need / want the extraneous features of Core2000/6000, you simply want to be able to read Japanese. Once I reached that point I just made a pure vocab deck. Words I encounter in the wild get entered in so it's 100% relevant stuff and the format is word in kanji on the front and then hiragana + eng def meaning on the back.

Added 10,000 words last year and now my Japanese is sweet as.

Seconded (err... minus the last line, my vocab's not *quite* that big yet).

I have a vocab deck for learning readings and the meanings of simple words (sometimes the meaning is a little vague or off: they're just rikaichan cards, i don't invest any real effort in them). Real understanding comes from reading/listening. Main benefit of a pure vocab deck? I average ~800 cards an hour when reviewing. I never go that fast with sentences.

Another idea may be to highlight the word in question and then just ignore the rest of the sentence (unless the context is needed).

If you're sick of sentences, don't do them. Especially sentences that are far too easy for you like Core.

Thora Wrote:So ... you're looking for a way to learn the kanji for words you already know without using those words (because that's boring)??

[I had edited my post to add some suggestions, but it appears they've already been mentioned by others.]

Yes and no - was really just looking for a more interesting (or efficient) way to study than churning through the Core 6000 deck to get the readings when I understand everything but.

Thanks for the suggestions guys. The Japanese keywords/manga/pure vocab deck ideas seem like they will be the go. mezbup and zigmonty that really does sound ideal.

I'm in exactly the opposite situation as you, so I think I can provide some advice:

The only way to get good at something is to practice it.

You've been practicing speaking and listening, so you're really good at it.

I've been practicing reading, so I'm good at that.

Just pick up a book and start reading. Make sure it has furigana. Don't fret about the words you don't know. If you really think the word is important, look it up. Otherwise, just forge on ahead.

Seriously. Do NOT FRET about the words you don't know. That's the biggest frustration for people learning to read. It was horrifying to me that I didn't know words. (I -love- reading in English and almost never come across a new word.) I pushed down that horror and kept going, and it has worked really well.

Read a Star Wars novel in Japanese.

I'd suggesting reading. Try one of these type books.
http://www.amazon.com/Breaking-into-Japa...4770028997
http://www.amazon.com/Read-Real-Japanese...4770030584

wccrawford Wrote:I'm in exactly the opposite situation as you, so I think I can provide some advice:

The only way to get good at something is to practice it.

You've been practicing speaking and listening, so you're really good at it.

I've been practicing reading, so I'm good at that.

Just pick up a book and start reading. Make sure it has furigana. Don't fret about the words you don't know. If you really think the word is important, look it up. Otherwise, just forge on ahead.

Seriously. Do NOT FRET about the words you don't know. That's the biggest frustration for people learning to read. It was horrifying to me that I didn't know words. (I -love- reading in English and almost never come across a new word.) I pushed down that horror and kept going, and it has worked really well.

I totally agree... If you wanna read, just start plowing through books until you get good at it. That's exactly what I have been doing a lot this summer and it has helped me quite a bit. When you 1st start, there will be a lot of new and unknown words but the more books you read through eventually you'll reach a point where there is less and less unknown vocab.

wccrawford Wrote:Seriously. Do NOT FRET about the words you don't know. That's the biggest frustration for people learning to read. It was horrifying to me that I didn't know words. (I -love- reading in English and almost never come across a new word.) I pushed down that horror and kept going, and it has worked really well.

Well, frankly, I did FRET about the words I didn't know while reading Otsuichi's manga called "CALLING YOU" and it sucked. You would occassionally look up words, grammar and stuff, and that annoyed me. I picked up the book recently again and just started reading it like it was written in my native language. Manga has a huge advantage, namely that the sentences tend to be short and there are more pictures you can orientate after (or what preposition do you use here in English??). A huge disadvantage, that also turned me into someone avoiding mangas as a ressource, is that the sentences are too short, too "chopped off" and depend really heavily on context. Once you didn't get 3 or 4 sentences, it gets difficult to get the hang of the story.. So, also my advice: just read. And don't care about the little unknown words, as long as you can guess the content of the sentence

Hashiriya Wrote:

wccrawford Wrote:I'm in exactly the opposite situation as you, so I think I can provide some advice:

The only way to get good at something is to practice it.

You've been practicing speaking and listening, so you're really good at it.

I've been practicing reading, so I'm good at that.

Just pick up a book and start reading. Make sure it has furigana. Don't fret about the words you don't know. If you really think the word is important, look it up. Otherwise, just forge on ahead.

Seriously. Do NOT FRET about the words you don't know. That's the biggest frustration for people learning to read. It was horrifying to me that I didn't know words. (I -love- reading in English and almost never come across a new word.) I pushed down that horror and kept going, and it has worked really well.

I totally agree... If you wanna read, just start plowing through books until you get good at it. That's exactly what I have been doing a lot this summer and it has helped me quite a bit. When you 1st start, there will be a lot of new and unknown words but the more books you read through eventually you'll reach a point where there is less and less unknown vocab.

This. Although I think you should atleast do all the readings in the core2k before trying to read books with a dictionary at hand, because otherwise you'll be looking up even the most basic things.

I'd also like to give you the advice of using the Japanese app for ipod touch if you got one when you are reading. It is nice to have a dictionary like that because it can deconjugate the words. (gosh my English sucks... I think studying Japanese is only hurting it more)